115 replies to this topic

[Galen Shannow]

I applaud the adding of a new game mode to CW however I believe the main problem with 'invasion' is that it stops the game from being mech on mech.

I play this game to shoot at big robots and be better than the other guy, not to rush a generator and shoot it until it blows up. The invasion mode is a good example of 'the enemy gate is down', narrowly focusing on an objective to win the game while effectively ignoring the enemy.

Frankly it's bleeeeeping boring. We won a match on the hot map , I did a total of 400 dam with 4 mechs (I led the way on two charges ...I'm not THAT sucky thankyouverymuch), but yay we won! Snooooorrreeeee.

Playing defense is better cause I get to shoot mechs but it feels like playing a tower defense game, hopefully you have enough mechs/turrets set up to stop the rush before they get to your base. More fun than attacking but almost feels like PVE.


Now you CAN win as the attacker by defeating the enemy forces but lets face it , this is a difficult task. Defenders have 2 or 3 natural chokepoints to stop you at, they have turrets to assist them, better cover and close spawn points. You need a super organised group with the right meta (or a completely crap PUG group opponent) to pull this off (in 30 minutes no less).
The difficulty level is simply to high.


Give us DM matches on regular maps with a different spawn mechanism or something else. I want to shoot mechs not rush generators.

Or howabout not opening up the generators until the defender has less than 12 mechs. That might make for interesting living.

[Malk2651]

What you're asking for already exists. It's under the quick match options.

[MahKraah]

cw definitly need to utilize all game modes and must not be restricted to the gun kill->win
what about a series of matches to win a sector:
1. kill the gun to allow your main force to land
2. do a assault match to create your beach head
3. do a conquest to take over enemy installations
4. everything in place now the armys duke it out with a skirmishmode match
to get to thenext stage you need to win on the current stage.
once you finished 4th stage with a win you win a sector

[Belorion]

Cause its super boring.

[Farix]

Some people just can't handle objective based gameplay.

[Killstorm999999]

The better question is, why do we have such poorly designed objectives that discourage mech fighting and encourage suicide rush tactics?

Ive seen more interesting tactics in Skirmish. At least in skirmish you have to actually think about the locations you take and hold, as oppose to having the game mode just tell you what to do.

[Malk2651]

Deltron Zero, on 23 December 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

The better question is, why do we have such poorly designed objectives that discourage mech fighting and encourage suicide rush tactics?

I've seen more interesting tactics in Skirmish. At least in skirmish you have to actually think about the locations you take and hold, as oppose to having the game mode just tell you what to do.

I believe PGI agrees with you. They bumped up the health on the generators last night to discourage the bum rush - ignore enemy mechs tactics. It's not super effective but it's a step in the right direction.

The problem with killing the enemy mechs, is the drop ships come right over the generators. Meaning that even if you do defeat the enemy mechs defending it, you aren't rewarded with objective control and are instead punished for your success.

Maybe they could move the drop ship landing points and further increase the generator hp?

Either way, I believe CW should remain an Objective based game mode with objective based maps. If I want to death match I can just go to the standard queue and get it much faster.

[Killstorm999999]

Malk2651, on 23 December 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

I believe PGI agrees with you. They bumped up the health on the generators last night to discourage the bum rush - ignore enemy mechs tactics. It's not super effective but it's a step in the right direction.

The problem with killing the enemy mechs, is the drop ships come right over the generators. Meaning that even if you do defeat the enemy mechs defending it, you aren't rewarded with objective control and are instead punished for your success.

Maybe they could move the drop ship landing points and further increase the generator hp?

Either way, I believe CW should remain an Objective based game mode with objective based maps. If I want to death match I can just go to the standard queue and get it much faster.

I agree. Killing the defending mechs should provide the attackers with some kind of advantage. If we move the defender drop point further away, so the attackers and defenders have to sort of 'meet in the middle' then killing the defender will provide the attackers with time to kill the turrets and generators. Based on how much time the attackers have (determined by how far away the defenders drop) the generator HP can be adjusted appropriately.

[Farix]

There is no point in engaging anything other than the objective (the generators and Omega) because (a) the defenders get to respawn right on top of you and (b) if you die, you have the long hike from your spawn point. It is simply not in the tactical interests of the attackers to engage enemy mechs and forcing them to do so is just bad design. The attackers are already at a huge enough disadvantage as it is.

Edited by Farix, 23 December 2014 - 09:06 AM.

[Galen Shannow]

Deltron Zero, on 23 December 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

The better question is, why do we have such poorly designed objectives that discourage mech fighting and encourage suicide rush tactics?

Ive seen more interesting tactics in Skirmish. At least in skirmish you have to actually think about the locations you take and hold, as oppose to having the game mode just tell you what to do.

This is the point. I have no problems with objective based battles. It's objective based battles that detract from the core gameplay that are the problem.

There is also no reason why skirmish can't be part of CW, the objective is the planet remember? You win the skirmish you get a bit of the planet. That is enough of an objective right there.

[Monkey Lover]

I think somehow these people forget the objective is to take the planet not to kill some generators. I would like to see all modes added I to cw.

[tucsonspeed6]

CW matches are supposed to be epic and utilize the dropship. The old maps aren't optimized for dropship mode, so we only get one match type to start. A skirmish mode will likely come later, once more important issues like grouping functionality get ironed out in the new year.

[WarHippy]

Monkey Lover, on 23 December 2014 - 09:08 AM, said:

I think somehow these people forget the objective is to take the planet not to kill some generators. I would like to see all modes added I to cw.

Destroying the generators is a big part of taking the planet. So long as the big gun is operational landing a large enough force to take the planet is impossible. That makes destroying the generators priority number one in the objective of taking the planet.

[MischiefSC]

Because organized units will always win straight skirmish. Back when we had matchmaking without Elo like cw is now there were units with 100 straight wins. It want hard to group with three people and win 80% of matches.

The tactics of killing mechs are far more simple than objective based matches and hugely favor voip coordination. A Skirmish mode will turn into 'who has the biggest group on comd' and will drive pugs out.

[WarHippy]

Galen Shannow, on 23 December 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

This is the point. I have no problems with objective based battles. It's objective based battles that detract from the core gameplay that are the problem.

There is also no reason why skirmish can't be part of CW, the objective is the planet remember? You win the skirmish you get a bit of the planet. That is enough of an objective right there.

If CW ends up being boiled down to skirmish nonsense you might as well just shut it down. If you are so desperate to play skirmish then go play skirmish, and stop trying to damage CW before it has a chance to get fleshed out.

[luxebo]

SOLARIS IS COMING OP, YOU CAN BE THANKFUL!

At least from what I heard last Town Hall.

Edited by luxebo, 23 December 2014 - 11:50 AM.

[Galen Shannow]

Solaris? WOOT!

And seriously Warhippy? I'm trying to 'damage' CW? Give it a rest. I would like to see in CW the focus being on mech to mech combat not mech vs generator combat. I think the current setup could use improvement. Will it ever be perfect? Of course not! Is the current setup skewed? Yes.

[Savage Wolf]

I made a suggestion of how to make attackers fight the defenders more without changing Invasion mode into deathmatch and keeping it objective based.

http://mwomercs.com/...ight-defenders/

[Jman5]

I feel like some people are missing the problem. People want to have fun while participating in community warfare. You can tell them to just go play the other gamemodes, but those have zero consequences from game to game. They want to make an impact on the CW map without just generator rushing or turning defense into how many legs can your team can snap off in 30 seconds.

Having objectives is all well and good, but only if they facilitate fun. For most people, the fun of this game is in fighting other mechs. Not fighting 4 buildings that don't even shoot back, or fighting a convoy of mechs that have no intention of even shooting you.

PGI has made some good changes, but we have a lot of work to do. One important goal is to increase the average game length to reduce the impact of teams spamming games in the last couple hours. I think one good change is to alter how "Counter-Attack" game mode works. Making it more focused on clearing out the enemy and less about building destruction would make more sense in the context.

[Savage Wolf]

Jman5, on 23 December 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

Having objectives is all well and good, but only if they facilitate fun. For most people, the fun of this game is in fighting other mechs. Not fighting 4 buildings that don't even shoot back, or fighting a convoy of mechs that have no intention of even shooting you.

You don't know anything about how many would prefer death match over objectives or how many like objectives more. Only PGI has any data that might give any idea about this and they are still guessing. So don't assume you are the majority. We only know that on the forums, there are people of both groups, but the forums do not represent the entire playerbase.