56 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

Lumicko, on 24 December 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

I have 4x Pulse Laser and im using XL 255... max tonnage. IF I would use higher XL it requires more tonnage im correct? Thus I wouldnot be able to use 4x Pulse laser

Like the guy above me pointed out, 4 large pulses is wayy to much - in both tonnage and heat load. Use the weaponlab in Smurfy's to determine how long you can last in combat - if you're sitting at less than 14 seconds with a short-range weapon load, you probably are better off with lighter guns and more engine/heat sinks. You can also get by with heat control, too, and that's sometimes beneficial; the ERPPC Thunderbuddy (do not try this build on anything without ERPPC quirks,) uses chain fire and left/right weapon groupings to control heat manually - after all you con't have to just lay down on the trigger, and often shouldn't.

[Davegt27]

Change your armor distribution

Load up all your armor on the front side of your Mech leave like 5 to 10 on the rear

Save weight on the legs and arms and head

Sounds crazy but when I started in June I was getting taken out in seconds in my Jager

That's what some nice people told me to do

Edited by Davegt27, 25 December 2014 - 08:53 PM.

[InspectorG]

Lumicko, on 24 December 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

So IM using Wolverine Medium mech. Im actually pretty much sniping with my Pulse Lasers... And I feel like paper.. I get hit a few times ( not always close range but also from other mechs / snipers..) and im almost critical damaged / destroyed... And others appear to me that they withstand muuuch more than me and I dont get why... I just feel like paper and they are like rocks.... My armor is almost everywhere on max.
Whats the point of medium mech if its such paper and cant even load that much weapons??? Is Heavy / assault superior to all??

Couple things:

Know the map, comes with experience. Use the map's cover.

Think 'peek-a-boo' in pug games. If you play Team or CW, you have to juggle between 'peekaboo' and push down the enemy's face. Pushing may get you killed but its about trades. If you kill 1-2 mechs, you died well.

Focus fire, use it, avoid it. In a Wubverine, stay near your team's non-lrmboat assaults. THEY will attract fire. You do not want to.

Dont peek up top of a hill, expect to be shot if you do. Around corners is a little better.

Wubverine is powerful but is very vulnerable. After you fire, torso turn away, save that arm.

Dont peekaboo from the same spot more than twice, you will get dual gauss'd the third time. Also-related to knowing the map, you can pick the predictable cover spots and snipe them...from another place than the usual player would.

Playing fire support, DO NOT face down an enemy heavy or assault. Give them your left side, and run for cover. If you dont shoot they may not see you.

Wubverine works best, in a beginner's hands, attacking from a side angle. Specially if you chain fire.
Chain fire is a big blue glowing line that says, 'shoot at this'.

Use 2 LPL most of the time, thats a nice amount of damage for heat at that range.

3 LPL when you can and know you wont be pushed into. (gotta save heat for close combat)

Chain fire only when you have the drop on someone: the enemy direwhale who is squared off against your team's Atlas. If no one else on his team is on you, keep chaining until the Whale looks for you.

tip: aim for the right torso on most mechs, arms on clan mechs. Legs if defending in CW.

[wanderer]

A medium can deliver firepower, but it can't soak damage for long- and it should NEVER be trading face to face with heavies or especially assaults.

Bully lights. Confront mediums. Flank or backstab everything bigger- a 3-LPL Wolverine can get enough engine to move and enough firepower to do the deeds. You're too big to ignore for long, but that also means you can ruin a distracted target's day. Just don't trade with bigger opponents. Hit em, move on, find the next cheap shot (you move fast enough now) and take it.

[Lumicko]

Dagon Zur, on 24 December 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

How much back armor do you have?
You dont need more than 8-10 back armor on a medium mech.

12/12 , Right / Left Torso is 10/10
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ffa275d7b82b7e0
There is the build. Its from the YT vid I linked below

Heat is pretty much fine with 4x Large Pulse and the range is 550m.




Im not using the chain fire on the first vid... Im currenty just firing 2 LP and after I finish firing them I fire the other 2. ( To dont get additional heat ) like on the second vid...
Pff rly annoying I got shot into front torso like 1-2x and its criticaly dmged.. srsly

Edited by Lumicko, 25 December 2014 - 12:21 AM.

[Motörhead]

Koniving, on 24 December 2014 - 08:00 PM, said:

Have to stop you right there. You're sniping with short range lasers? Regardless of whether small or large, the pulse lasers have very short range compared to...most weapons.

While this is usually true the Wubvering with quirks + modules has an effective range around 600m, good enough to snipe.

[Koniving]

fx8320, on 25 December 2014 - 12:31 AM, said:

While this is usually true the Wubvering with quirks + modules has an effective range around 600m, good enough to snipe.

Still inferior to Clan large pulse lasers, and most large-class laser weaponry on both sides.

Most people associate sniping with 1,000+ meters.

Went back and added some points. So bringing them here.

Quote

Note: If you're using the Wolverine 6K, you can get an optimum range of 547.5 meters without range modules.
If you add the range module at MAXIMUM unlock (range module level 5) you get 584 meters.

Inner Sphere Large Lasers: 450 meters.
Inner Sphere ER Large Lasers: 675 meters.
Clan Large Pulse lasers: 600 meters.
Clan ER Large Lasers (they have no standard) : 740 meters.

IS ER PPC: 810 meters.
IS PPC: 540 meters.
Clan ER PPC: 810 meters.

No matter what, if he's using a hitscan weapon to snipe, the player is outmatched and stationary.

To take the original poster on in his Wolverine, assuming his definition of sniping is akin to mine...
It'd be like shooting back at a mail box launching envelopes at you. Those envelopes might be deadly enough to slice through postal workers, but he's up against the paper boy from the NES game of the same name that's riding from across the street with a paper throwing arm that can knock cars off of jacks and smash through windows.

Edited by Koniving, 25 December 2014 - 06:27 AM.

[JC Daxion]

I gotta agree with Koniving on this, Large Pulse are not sniping weapons. That does not mean you can't use them in the same fashion, and a shorter range weapon, but still, it is no sniper weapon. Let's not forget the farther you get from ideal range, aka Past the stated max you see inside the mech, the damage drops off. So while a weapon does have a long Max range, it is only doing 1 damage, while that guy that has PPC's Or a gauss, or AC-2/5's They are still doing the Max damage of their weapon. That is a giant difference.


Wolverine's to me are more of a brawler mech, with hit and run tactics, to me very similar to the HBK. They have good hit boxes, so torso twisting will help a lot. Personally i run a XL-280 or 300 in them so i can pack on a bit more weaponry. Though now i have an XL-340, i have been considering giving it a try in one of my wolvies. At least seeing you need 3 to master, grab the one with the XL-275, it gives ya 81, or 89 depending if tweaked, to me 90 is still a good speed for a hard hitting medium. Enough to brawl with heavies, and assaults, sticking in blind spots though you will most likely take a hit from time to time, so make sure you are twisted right, when the time comes.

One of my favorite pre-quirk wolvies was the 7K, with dual LRM 10's and some MPL's, hit um from range, and move in to finish um off with pin point up close, and vanish behind cover before they can respond. Post quirk, I have yet to fire them up. I actually kinda thought of it as a catapult light..


OP: if you really want to snipe, to me the AC-2/5, Gauss, ERLL or PPC/ERPPC is what ou want. There are many mechs that can run those weapons well, Dragon, Thunderbolt, Cataphract, Cicada, and Jaegers, to name a few. Out side of the cicada's which are a very fast, lower damage highly mobile sniper, the others can pack enough armor, and ammo, and weapons to make sniping worth while in them. Though like any sniper than can go down easy in a good brawl, but hey that is the whole point of them, not let um get that close.


But if you insist on sniping in a medium, you really need to learn to do the peak-a-boo maneuver, or add some JJ's and pick new spots to snipe from often. Often taking more than one shot will mean you are going to take damage unless of course they are facing the other way, then get a few before they turn, and duck back, and here the ground take the hit.. You just got free damage!

Get your other wolvies if you have not, and play around with other builds, and learn to move those mediums. You will find they are tougher than you think.

[Void Angel]

Koniving, on 25 December 2014 - 04:34 AM, said:

Still inferior to Clan large pulse lasers, and most large-class laser weaponry on both sides.

Most people associate sniping with 1,000+ meters.

Went back and added some points. So bringing them here.



No matter what, if he's using a hitscan weapon to snipe, the player is outmatched and stationary.

To take the original poster on in his Wolverine, assuming his definition of sniping is akin to mine...
It'd be like shooting back at a mail box launching envelopes at you. Those envelopes might be deadly enough to slice through postal workers, but he's up against the paper boy from the NES game of the same name that's riding from across the street with a paper throwing arm that can knock cars off of jacks and smash through windows.

I'm pretty sure he (the OP) means corner/hilltop peeking at close to or within his pulse lasers' range, though he hasn't been totally clear on that. Still not the optimal way to use that 'Mech, I think, even if he's able to handle the heat due to quirks. Based on his videos, he seems to be slugging it out with things - and winning many times, but he's taking a ton of frontloaded alphas doing it.

Lumicko, on 24 December 2014 - 11:51 PM, said:

[...] Pff rly annoying I got shot into front torso like 1-2x and its criticaly dmged.. srsly

Uh, in the video? That's because you got smacked from behind. Your front armor is still intact, though red.

Edited by Void Angel, 25 December 2014 - 01:37 PM.

[Koniving]

Heh... I didn't even think to look if he had a channel. That would certainly help. (Saw that video, didn't watch it completely but pretty much believed it was a suggestion by someone.)

It's a shame my favorite way to fight with a Wolverine got nerfed with fall damage. I really enjoyed vertical combat.

Mkay, watched it. So long as his enemies are preoccupied with others he should never have a problem running that "bass cannon." But, if he was always playing that way we wouldn't have a post here about being fragile.

It's mainly got to be either his front armor wears down too fast, or his back is attacked while he's focused on his front.

OP, have you tried taking advantage of your arm range? I know it's not as impressive as a Kintaro, but still. You can select which side of your body to expose to the front (protecting a weak side) and still pull off exactly what you're doing by twisting, using left CTRL to aim, and rollin' out the "Bass Cannon."

Think of it like the Centurion's charge back in the day. At 64.8 kph those things could tank -- because people couldn't spam much fire. So here's what you had to do to last longer. You twist to bring the shield arm in front of you. You use the arm controls, since it only manipulated the cannon arm, so that it fires either over or below your shield. Then you pop open the missile doors and spam the enemy with LRMs and AC/10 as you approach. Once you got close, you hit Center Torso and let go of left CTRL, nailing in the lasers and closing the missile doors at close range. If you get under heavy fire you close the LRM doors early.

This made sure to protect not only the right torso but also the right arm, so your powerful AC/10 would survive the fight. It's the same premise here, minus the shield.

(It's good you keep some movement going. Though we have the other obvious issue of your fragility... You're using an XL engine. You can live twice as long by not using one; possibly even 3x as long depending on how well you spread it.)

Edited by Koniving, 25 December 2014 - 01:48 PM.

[Void Angel]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking, too - particularly from the complaint about "only getting shot one or two times, but my torso's already critical." If he's going from shooting distracted targets to being a distracted target, that would explain his difficulties, particularly since dakka/snipers love to shoot mediums who aren't paying attention - because they take less damage for a kill.

[Tim East]

Heck, *I* love to shoot mediums that aren't paying attention, since if you leg them they turn into poorly armed and armored assaults.

[Lumicko]

Well I Dont get destroyed because they destroy my left / right torso.. So I dont think that XL engine is problem... Also they never destroy my RIght arm ( where are the lasers ).. They just always shoot into MY FRONT CENTRAL TORSO... And destroy it really quickly like after 1-3 hits its critical / deep yellow color.. Thats really annoying


I often just shoot mechs which are occupied with other mechs and somehow they always turn on me when I shoot and shoot me.. Well I guess just bad timing.. But overall im just annyoed because my CENTRAL TORSO is so weak and cant withstand much even with full armor.... I dont really have problem with heat when using those 4x LP lasers... The speed is also quite annoying but I cant afford getting bigger engine at the cost of 1 laser... Having 3 lasers just seem weak to me would be much lower dmg.

Just saw one KING CRAB withstand fire from 3+ mechs for like 20+secs... Just insane... damn... And Their speed is around mine... 50-70..Which isnt such big difference so I dont think we can say that they have disadvantage of mobility... And they have much bigger firepower + armor

Edited by Lumicko, 26 December 2014 - 09:01 AM.

[Nightmare1]

Simply put, Heavies and Assaults have significantly more armor and firepower than Mediums and Lights.

Also, pulse lasers are not particularly good for sniping. LLs, ERLLs, Gauss Rifles, AC/2s, and AC/5s are all better at this job.

Thus, if you are taking your 55-ton Mech against a heavier adversary armed with something better than pulse laser, expect to get smashed. This is one scenario where paper will not beat rock.

[Lumicko]

I have also JAgerMech JM6-S with 3x ULTRA AC5... Max speed is 69 KPH with XL 280 . ITs the same case... Ppl always focus my CENTER FRONT TORSO and shred it pretty easily and fast even with 74 armor. I would expect from sniper that he can do A LOOT of dmg... Not really... Had 260 ammo and ended up on 100... Did only like 250 dmg... Its true that I missed some shots but still.. And If Im forced into fight sniper vs sniper It just doesnt work since he lands a few hits on my torso and its critical dmg... Annoyyyiing

[DONTOR]

Dagon Zur, on 24 December 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

How much back armor do you have?
You dont need more than 8-10 back armor on a medium mech.

this.

[Ryu Uppercut]

This has some great feedback and information, I will try some of these suggestions

[o0Marduk0o]

Lumicko, on 26 December 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

ITs the same case... Ppl always focus my CENTER FRONT TORSO and shred it pretty easily and fast even with 74 armor.

Do you ever twist your torso to protect your center torso?

[Saiphas Cain]

AC 5's are decent for "sniping" in that they're long ranged but they're not ideal for long ranged fire exchange because you have to stare at your target the whole time. The quick reload makes you not want to fire and duck for cover. I would suggest changing your role a bit if you're going with AC5's. Wait to get a bit closer, and attack with a group so not everyone is focused on you. When you're not the primary target you get more facetime to unload and apply Damage Per Second. This is why the Cataphracts are such fantastic fire support mechs despite being wide as a barn and dying to CT corings quickly. You don't spearhead in them. If you want to pure snipe you'll want to look into something with a longer cycle time like a Gauss Rifle. When you shoot one of those there's no reason to stay exposed staring at the target waiting for a reload.

[AaronWolf]

Just like everyone has given good info on how to use Mediums, I would like to point out some more advanced tactics which mimic ones akin to the real world. Which are plausible with two of my favorite Mediums.

The Shadowhawk and Hunchback.

This is called a "Hull-Down" maneuver. Its used by a lot of tankers to reduce exposure to the enemy and allow the ability to fire over terrain safely.



It looks like this:



What does this have to do with MWO?

Well, the Hunchback AND the Shadowhawk weapons are very highly mounted up on the torso-In level with your head almost evenly. So you can employ this tactic.

Roll up a hill, only exposing a bit of your upper torso and gun to fire, then dip back down to hide behind cover. You can roll up and down doing this.

One of the most effective spots to do it is at the crater lip in Caustic, you can catch SO MANY people with your AC/20 shots and duck back down before they can attack back usually, and even if they do, most of the time they hit the hill or dirt.