41 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

One point not mentioned here is outside influence such as the current Event.
If someone wants to maximize the Event rewards, they have to get 30+ score in 25 Invasion matches like I have thought of doing.
What do you do, tell them, "**** you, you cannot have your extra stuff?"
Right, that is like saying competitive / hardcore players cannot have their CW / private team matches. While we are at it, throw out Stock Mech day, other events, etc.
If PGI wanted CW to be for a small subset, they should have designed the event different.
Last I knew, CW was NEVER meant to eliminate solo players and if something changed, PGI messed up.

[ApolloKaras]

From a 12 man point of view we would rather much fight other 12 man groups. However if a group is there defending, I hope they are prepared that when they hit launch there is a chance of fighting a coordinated 12 man. If one would go in with this expectation then there would be less disappointment in the event you do meet up with one.

[Thorqemada]

Out of ~27 Solo-PUG CW matches i had 2 or 3 Wins defending (Holding ground) against IS Teams and 1 Win against the Clans.
No attacking/countering ever succeeded.and pretty much 80% to 90% of the matches so far were attacking/countering.

PUGs do better defening bcs the coordination is way simpler...

Edited by Thorqemada, 26 December 2014 - 02:56 PM.

[TiguriusX]

Jody Von Jedi,

My unit vacations on the Steiner front all the time.


Here is a game where I deferred drop command to the Steiner unit but you can see the hodge podge IS forces beat Clans



IS had one 4 man unit and 8 randoms mixed in
Clan had three units and 3 randoms mixed in


Final kill score was IS-13 to Clan-36

I was on the team with 13 kills. We won.

How you ask? Well notice how we focus on the OBJECTIVE instead of pointless killing of defenders. I even lecture a newbie to CW on the pros/cons of not playing like the solo queue at one point.

I have other videos where you see us run by and shoot a single leg off the enemy then keep on going. Kills are not the point in CW. You just get shot by a dropship and get to fight the same guy in a fresh mech.

Leg him and leave him behind. This applies to attacker and defender roles.

Good luck...start working WITH people...community warfare is so much fun when you get people working as a team

Edited by TiguriusX, 26 December 2014 - 02:58 PM.

[John80sk]

CW is meant for groups, or PUGs who want a significant challenge. Thing about a significant challenge is you fail more often than you succeed, otherwise it wouldn't be a challenge.

Merchant, on 26 December 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

One point not mentioned here is outside influence such as the current Event.
If someone wants to maximize the Event rewards, they have to get 30+ score in 25 Invasion matches like I have thought of doing.
What do you do, tell them, "**** you, you cannot have your extra stuff?"
Right, that is like saying competitive / hardcore players cannot have their CW / private team matches. While we are at it, throw out Stock Mech day, other events, etc.
If PGI wanted CW to be for a small subset, they should have designed the event different.
Last I knew, CW was NEVER meant to eliminate solo players and if something changed, PGI messed up.

80 points is basically participation points for a match. Provided you at some point shoot your weapons it should be fairly easy to get your stocking.

[Sky Ferrix]

I've done quite a few solo drops into CW, and have had some success with rounding up the other pugs and giving direction. However, some just refuse to act, preferring to fight for kills/damage rather than make the necessary sacrifices required to get things done. It's as if some of these players just seek skirmish mode with respawns. *shakes head*

One match comes to mind where I attempted to organize a push on three separate occasions, and every single time the only ones to listen and follow were four guys from a unit. (Which I forget the name of...) Needless to say, we were the only ones to land any hits on the gun that match.

I think it's about time to find a unit.

[Roper Band]

Exarch Levin, on 26 December 2014 - 12:48 AM, said:

I'll take my chances in a PUG versus an organized team if it means that I, as a casual player w/o access to a large group, actually get to play in CW.

I was as casual as it got...I just picked a Steiner group and joined their website. Maybe once a week I'll drop with the Skye Rangers of Terra for a few hours. I'm not sure why some of you are so against making even a minimum commitment?

[Rebas Kradd]

Radar Langly, on 25 December 2014 - 10:17 PM, said:

I'm to the point that if I'm not dropping with my team I'm simply going to refuse to play CW.

Then you understand the point of CW.

[xe N on]

Ironwithin, on 26 December 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

Any new or casual players can still play the old public-queue, nothing changed there. CW is, as mentioned time and again, meant for team-oriented players that want more of a challenge/reward than just random pug-stomps on random maps with random teams. That's what it's there for, that's what it is. You don't HAVE to play it if you don't like it.
Why is everyone acting like assault/skirmish/conquest just got patched out of the game ...

Maybe there are team oriented players that don't have a unit or have a unit but cannot drop with them for some reasons (e.g. because there are 13 players online want to play CW?)

In every cheap random asia grind MMO you have the option to form a group or join a existing one by looking for players. Either text based by chat or even more comfortable by using a search engine with flags and tags.

That is the basic for every team or group oriented content. I just couldn't image any MMOs I played with out that function.

MWO offers none of this, but simply mix a random number of players together. That won't work in any case. It is not even like in games as Counter Strike, Team Fortress and so on that you can simply joing and un-join an game as you like, because in MWO you got locked into a fixed team with a fixed team size for a very defined play time.

Without the feature of group forming, MWO acutually prevent that solo player can participate CW in any meaningfull way and just feed them even incompetent 12 mans that would lose if they would face an organized and preformed group of solo players.

Edited by xe N on, 26 December 2014 - 11:08 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Radar Langly, on 25 December 2014 - 10:17 PM, said:

I'm to the point that if I'm not dropping with my team I'm simply going to refuse to play CW. Attacking with a random pug drop means that 60-70% of the time or better you lose. If the defending team has an 8 man or better on defense, you're going to lose. If you try joining on Defense, the probability is very high that you find yourself counter-attacking, not playing defense, and you lose.

This crap is getting old. I'm not good enough to really make a dent in carrying a team. I'm a pretty decent team member, I'll go with the called strat, I'm not an idiot on a zerg rush. I just find that either part of my pug team is clueless, or they refuse to take orders.

I'm so friggin tired of getting smoked that I'm just going to quit inflicting it on myself.

Sick of it. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna catch a bunch of flack. All I know is that if I felt like I had something approaching an even chance of winning I'd keep playing it, but all I ever seem to see is attacking into a ten to twelve man that guts us like trout, and that's simply not fun for anyone except the twelve man.

Its frustrating as hell, and nowhere approaching balanced.

Start with tuning the MM so that if one team has a group of 8+ you don't match it against a bunch of singletons. Fix this crap. It's badly broken.

1) It's not ment to be balanced, it's war.

2) I've had several pug games where we've one, several where we've been obliterated.

Attacking just needs to be made slightly easier than it is, there needs to be a buff to the attacking team, I don't know what, but something to help give an edge, because right now, defenders have it easy.

[IraqiWalker]

Merchant, on 26 December 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

One point not mentioned here is outside influence such as the current Event.
If someone wants to maximize the Event rewards, they have to get 30+ score in 25 Invasion matches like I have thought of doing.
What do you do, tell them, "**** you, you cannot have your extra stuff?"
Right, that is like saying competitive / hardcore players cannot have their CW / private team matches. While we are at it, throw out Stock Mech day, other events, etc.
If PGI wanted CW to be for a small subset, they should have designed the event different.
Last I knew, CW was NEVER meant to eliminate solo players and if something changed, PGI messed up.

That's the thing. PuGs can play in CW. CW was never meant to eliminate them. However, they are not the target audience. They help fill the queues, so drops can happen. CW is super team oriented. Playing solo in a hyper team-oriented environment will be very difficult, and it requires great coordination, even more than the regular queues. So make no mistakes: You can play in CW solo, but expect to have a hard time. That's how it is, and honestly that's kinda how it should be.

Assault, Skirmish, and Conquest are there for the general population. Those that are interested in a hardcore mode that has a higher level of play all around can go to CW. I'm in a unit, but I still solo drop into CW every day to test out the waters, and see how the other units, and groups organize themselves. I even take command of some drops. However I don't fool myself. When facing a coordinated 12 man, I bring my A-Game, and am prepared to lose, or even get stomped.

In fact, earlier tonight We got destroyed by Mercstar defending a Kurita planet. A big part of it is the rest of the team refusing to push to re-secure the drop zone for Alpha lance (basically we lost 12 mechs without putting up a fight to save them, which sealed our fate). We actually could have won, but the solo players refused to take any risks, and were too busy trying to get kill shots, and engaging in sniper fights with CLANS.

Teams coordinate their efforts, and follow orders with full confidence, and THAT is where their true edge lies. PuGs are usually not willing to take risks, and on top of it all, they don't know who they are dropping with, so there isn't really much trust going on. If my drop commander tells me to rush into a grid that is through the entire enemy team, I'll do it, and even if I die. If I achieved my objective, that's fine. PuGs aren't willing to lose mechs, or follow orders that seem crazy like that, which causes problems.

Also, hilariously, tactics, and play styles that work in public queues, just don't work in CW, and vice versa.

[Idealsuspect]

Radar Langly, on 25 December 2014 - 10:17 PM, said:

I'm to the point that if I'm not dropping with my team I'm simply going to refuse to play CW.

Its frustrating as hell, and nowhere approaching balanced.

Start with tuning the MM so that if one team has a group of 8+ you don't match it against a bunch of singletons. Fix this crap. It's badly broken.

In fact since CW is coming out, regular solo queu is really good now also i suggest you to never launch CW alone not cause people on CW are better or are competitive player.... hell not.
Thoses peoples who are saying that CW is made for competitive team or CW is MWO in hardcore mode is simply hillarious ...

In fact MWO didnt really change at all since CW is avaible ... But big teams ( i don't mean bunch of hardcore players but bunch of people who can't handle in PUGs mode ) only migrate from groups queue to CW queue ....

CW queue where even solo pugs players are allowed when they weren't allowed in old public group queue....
Mixing 12's with 4' like before, and more now mixing solo players with 4', 8', 12' but yea they are right CW is hardcore mode ...( sarcastic face ) .

Edited by Idealsuspect, 27 December 2014 - 03:57 AM.

[Wildstreak]

John80sk, on 26 December 2014 - 03:07 PM, said:

CW is meant for groups, or PUGs who want a significant challenge. Thing about a significant challenge is you fail more often than you succeed, otherwise it wouldn't be a challenge.

80 points is basically participation points for a match. Provided you at some point shoot your weapons it should be fairly easy to get your stocking.

CW is in Beta which means it is broken and needs feedback to get fixed, not, "this is how it is meant to be played." I already spent time in a Beta where people treated it like a finished product, end result the game got canceled because no one tested it for faults, lots of complaints and one of the companies involved canceled the game ironically proving PGI wrong about franchises.

Not so easy on one map when you are attacking to get that 80 points.

[JoJoxy]

Well I've been pugging alone or in a group of two exclusively for the tourney. Had around 50/50 win/loss and almost all games qualified 80+ score. If those pesky Timbies or Crows push, just yell out "aim for the legs" a few times and they magically die like flies...

[Lily from animove]

Of course it is, going solo into CW is just for playing some roboshooting game and done, grind XP and Cbills in a less repetitive way than 12vs12 team deathmatch.

W A R K H A N, on 26 December 2014 - 04:48 AM, said:

Hense the term Community warfare.

with the issue that 80% are pugging and Community warfare therefore was designed for only 20% of the community XD
But in the end, thats how group PvP games end, so it is not surprising at all.



Just go CW and play without any expectations, then you have a fun robobattle game ^^
As a single pilot amongst 24 you just can't save the world alone.

Edited by Lily from animove, 27 December 2014 - 05:31 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

So PUG have the right to shut the F* up and should be happy about beeing about to take part on invasion games at all?
This is as rude as it can get.
The problem isn't that Premades have the advantage over Pugs, the problem is that the matchmaker fails hard to put proper teams together? Pugs should be used to fill up empty spots. But nope, instead of using said Pugs to fill up all those 2,3,4,6,8, man premades.. let's take 12 pugs and put them against a 12 men premade. *clap clap*

[Wieland]

Nightmare1, on 26 December 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

CW was never intended for the solo pugger. It was designed for the Teams and Units to give them something worthwhile to play.

Puggers are welcome to participate, but they should be aware of this. CW is for the competitive and the hardcore; not the casual puggers.

Actually, originally it was Lone Wolfs(i only want to fight, plugging holes in faction warfare matches), Faction players(you can call them the roleplay guys) and Merc Teams(the super pro elite i am better than everyone else guys). Faction teams was something that came up later and they wanted to look at it after CW was running.
With Clans forced in by IGP, they completely changed CW to "lets ignore the fact that we have a shitload of pugs that simply want to play faction warfare".

Edited by Wieland, 27 December 2014 - 06:15 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

LOADED, on 27 December 2014 - 05:54 AM, said:

So PUG have the right to shut the F* up and should be happy about beeing about to take part on invasion games at all?
This is as rude as it can get.
The problem isn't that Premades have the advantage over Pugs, the problem is that the matchmaker fails hard to put proper teams together? Pugs should be used to fill up empty spots. But nope, instead of using said Pugs to fill up all those 2,3,4,6,8, man premades.. let's take 12 pugs and put them against a 12 men premade. *clap clap*

I think you answered your own complaint.

PuGs are used to fill empty slots. What happens when there are empty slots against a 12 man, but no 12 mans to face them?

You get 12 PuGs against a 12 man. It happens, it's to be expected. Especially since the community doesn't want solo-only, and group-only queues for CW. The wait times are long enough as is, without making it 40+ minutes per planet, per drop.

That's the biggest problem this game faces. It should NEVER have solo only, and group only queues. That's why we're saying this is a group-oriented hard core game mode. Because this is one place where being solo is definitely disadvantageous, even more so than in public queues back when they were mixed, and the only solution to fix that problem (split queues) should never be implemented.

---

Units and groups do prefer keeping this mode for groups only, because the public queues are where people can pug. This is the serious mode, where teamwork is there above all. It's one thing to solo drop in public queue, but it's absolutely mind boggling to see it happen so often in CW. That's literally the one mode where it needs to not happen, and if it does, it shouldn't start bending the set up to accommodate solo droppers. We already have the public queue for that.

I don't know if you play League of Legends, but if you do, you will get this analogy.

Public queue, is regular Summoners rift. It's regular matches. CW, is Ranked Ladder. The two are very different, and they should stay different. People can practice, goof off, mess around, whatever in the public queue. CW is where everything needs to be top notch, and teamwork is paramount.

The most successful solo droppers are NOT solo players. As soon as a team is made up they ask what the plan is, or they take control. If there is a pre-made, they ask if those guys want the lead, and they will follow orders, and play as part of the team.

THAT is what is expected, and needed of a solo player in CW. This is the one mode where it's not the game that bends to the player, it's the player that needs to bend to the game. If we want CW to be any semblance of good, we need it to not turn into a replica of the public queue. Which means that it will be even rougher on solo players, if they don't work with their team properly.

I've been in drops where a collection of solo player beat down organized groups(Hail Davion/Marik formations on the clan borders). It can be done, and it does happen. However, it relies on the ability to realize you are NOT solo. Which is not easy to get as a solo dropper. It also relies on the willingness to sacrifice one or two of your mechs (or all 4) to the grinder, to make sure your team can win. Which is another skill that non-unit players don't develop in the regular queues, where it's all about surviving as long as possible, and getting as much damage out as possible.

All in all, CW is a harsh mode for new players. Four times more so for Solo players. However, with some tutorials, and getting people to stop being so stubborn about being solo droppers, (or at least get them out of the solo mentality), it can be a fun place for everyone.
We just need to make sure that everyone gets the message here:

YOU HAVE TO CHANGE FOR CW, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND

Edited by IraqiWalker, 27 December 2014 - 06:25 AM.

[MercilessTRADER]

They need many improvements. Matchmaking is terrible like the title said. Organized clans should only be attacking random teams right now, CW needs more space too.. This has made for slower designs with more guns over agility on defense. Its like a saloon(narrow).. Hope they implement other game modes in CW ASAP... Maybe like first 24 mechs is more like skirmish or assault and then the game evolves into a invasion..

[Heuvadoches]

LOADED, on 27 December 2014 - 05:54 AM, said:

So PUG have the right to shut the F* up and should be happy about beeing about to take part on invasion games at all?
This is as rude as it can get.

This is what I get too. The "nut up and join a team" horsecrap. And usually in the most condescending manner possible.

I'm absolutely tired of it. I am unable to join a group. Period. I can follow orders when given them in the game ... but no one steps up to give them.

Edited by Heuvadoches, 28 December 2014 - 04:34 PM.