60 replies to this topic

[GrizzlyViking]

DustyHardtail, on 26 December 2014 - 11:12 PM, said:

First off, the clan mechs are supierior, like they should be. So 12 Clan vs 12 IS makes it very difficult for the IS teams, but still possible.

Second, clans fight in groups called Stars, not lances. A star is 5 mechs. A lance is 4 mechs.

2 Clan stars (10) vs 3 IS lances (12) sounds like more of a "fair" fight, and it keeps the game true to canon.

If I am wrong here please let me know, but this is something that bugs me. A lot.

This has been hashed and re-hashed hundreds of times and comes up most every time someone gets demolished by the Clans. The problem is not clan Mech firepower. The problem is disorganized IS groups defending against more organized clan groups. Kurita and Rasalhague are suffering from too many disorganized PUG groups trying to defend their planets. How can you defend your territory when you have so many mixed bag PUG groups losing most every match they have? I have been in several of these groups trying to give them a plan and it rarely ever works mainly due to language barriers and ignorant and/or stubborn players. I think some of the problem is due to non-English speaking players and the other is due to hard heads who choose not to work together as a team. Oh, and one other thing that is normally not in play, inexperienced PUGs, some who are trying to get stocking stuffers. Clan Mechs are not the problem. Disorganization and lack of teamwork are the real culprit.

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 27 December 2014 - 08:53 AM.

[M Jordanus Sicarius]

I'd like to see lances organized by fives instead of fours just because it's really weird (and slightly immersion breaking...) to have Clan's using lances instead of stars.

Maybe 15 versus 16 (3 stars versus 4 lances) would be better and easier to implement. Though it does bring in issues with map size. Voted other

[Kaldrenborn]

DustyHardtail, on 26 December 2014 - 11:12 PM, said:

If I am wrong here please let me know, but this is something that bugs me. A lot.

Aresye, on 27 December 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

The latest update on balance Clans won 63% of matches with an average team Elo advantage of 100-120.

Here's straight from the Wikipedia article on the Elo rating system:

Source: http://en.wikipedia....o_rating_system

Gee, that seems awfully close to balanced in terms of what the devs observed. Probably explains why when you have a comp team of IS vs a comp team of Clans, they seem to each win an equal number of times, with teamwork being the main factor.

GrizzlyViking, on 27 December 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

This has been hashed and re-hashed hundreds of times and comes up most every time someone gets demolished by the Clans. The problem is not clan Mech firepower. The problem is disorganized IS groups defending against more organized clan groups. Kurita and Rasalhague are suffering from too many disorganized PUG groups trying to defend their planets. How can you defend your territory when you have so many mixed bag PUG groups losing most every match they have? I have been in several of these groups trying to give them a plan and it rarely ever works mainly due to language barriers and ignorant and/or stubborn players. I think some of the problem is due to non-English speaking players and the other is due to hard heads who choose not to work together as a team. Oh, and one other thing that is normally not in play, inexperienced PUGs, some who are trying to get stocking stuffers. Clan Mechs are not the problem. Disorganization and lack of teamwork are the real culprit.

M Jordanus Sicarius, on 27 December 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

I'd like to see lances organized by fives instead of fours just because it's really weird (and slightly immersion breaking...) to have Clan's using lances instead of stars.

Maybe 15 versus 16 (3 stars versus 4 lances) would be better and easier to implement. Though it does bring in issues with map size. Voted other

THESE are the kind of responses I am looking for. Responses that give me more of an understanding. Like Aresye said, if the clan ELO playerbase is just higher, then alright. That makes some sense. Thank y'all for some decent answers and not just calling me an "IS noob" n such.

[ztac]

This is a joke right? Clans are in inferior mechs to IS thx to PGI's aggressive balancing after launch (nerfing clan mechs and buffing IS). The clans if they were true to how they are supposed to be would easily wipe any IS mechs with a12 vs 12 , But I know PGI are always using TT rules when it suits them to justify things, but this game is way off those rules!

IS as it is have the edge in many areas and all this nonsense about op clan mechs is what is driving the nerfs. So wat happens when no one wants to play the Clans anymore? Because if people wake up to what PGI have done that is where we will be.

Frankly I can't remember the timeline for the nerfs and buffs , but if it was after clan wave 2 I would not be too happy having payed for something that was inferior to something that was bought for C-Bills. (And I'm not asking for something OP , just a semblance of balance (not very likely though as PGI never did get LRM right , lol)).

[Kaldrenborn]

ztac, on 27 December 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

This is a joke right? Clans are in inferior mechs to IS thx to PGI's aggressive balancing after launch (nerfing clan mechs and buffing IS). The clans if they were true to how they are supposed to be would easily wipe any IS mechs with a12 vs 12 , But I know PGI are always using TT rules when it suits them to justify things, but this game is way off those rules!

IS as it is have the edge in many areas and all this nonsense about op clan mechs is what is driving the nerfs. So wat happens when no one wants to play the Clans anymore? Because if people wake up to what PGI have done that is where we will be.

Frankly I can't remember the timeline for the nerfs and buffs , but if it was after clan wave 2 I would not be too happy having payed for something that was inferior to something that was bought for C-Bills. (And I'm not asking for something OP , just a semblance of balance (not very likely though as PGI never did get LRM right , lol)).

I never said clans were OP. Read the posts before you contribute.

[Adiuvo]

Lily from animove, on 27 December 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:

can not really agree with the lists, especiallly the hellbringer, listing them together with the TBR is a joke. Only in long range may he be a T1 mech, otherwise not, the unbalanced hardpointdistribution gives the mech a defined weakpoint, and in every medium or below range people can very easily take out his strong side leaving it very useless.

Don't believe every list someone else does, using the own brain is often something very helpful as well.

Especially with the gargoyle in this list I doubt it is truly a list people should believe in that much.

Having a 'strong' side is a good thing and has been a good thing since closed beta.

[cSand]

Flash Frame, on 27 December 2014 - 12:04 AM, said:

Stormcrow can blast through 3+ enemy IS mechs heavier than it'self because it's massing SSRm's like that, I think there's an inbalance, a horrible one.

Show me this Stormcrow and I'll show you a bird carcass

[Adiuvo]

Aresye, on 27 December 2014 - 08:17 AM, said:

The latest update on balance Clans won 63% of matches with an average team Elo advantage of 100-120.

Here's straight from the Wikipedia article on the Elo rating system:

Source: http://en.wikipedia....o_rating_system

Gee, that seems awfully close to balanced in terms of what the devs observed. Probably explains why when you have a comp team of IS vs a comp team of Clans, they seem to each win an equal number of times, with teamwork being the main factor.

If clans were more powerful then primary clan pilots would have a higher Elo regardless.

Comp team of IS vs. comp team of clans does not result in equal wins either...

[Kirkland Langue]

Let's be honest here - Clans should have to drop solo, and their victory condition is to score 100 match score against a 12 man team of IS pugs.

Let's make that a game mode. 1v12.

(I'm halfway joking, because obviously the Clan mech would be unlikely to win... but I'm halfway serious because :Lore:)

[Aethon]

First, people wanted Clan mechs dragged down to the level of their IS conterparts, instead of having a numerical advantage.

Now that the Clan omnis are, for the most part, worse than the IS mechs, they want the numerical advantage as well?

[LordKnightFandragon]

Aethon, on 27 December 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

First, people wanted Clan mechs dragged down to the level of their IS conterparts, instead of having a numerical advantage.

Now that the Clan omnis are, for the most part, worse than the IS mechs, they want the numerical advantage as well?

Duh, Clan mechs OP...always


But OP, when the Clan mechs get all their awesome quirks, 15/15 CERPPC, better UACs that are just better then IS ACs in every fashion and they are just amazingly more powerful in every form and fashion then sure, ill take 10v12.

When someone walks around a corner and shits themselves at the sight of a 4 CERPPC Warhawk, or a SUmmoner standing there, then sure....but as for now? no.,....

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 27 December 2014 - 02:37 PM.

[Kaldrenborn]

Adiuvo, on 27 December 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

If clans were more powerful then primary clan pilots would have a higher Elo regardless.

Comp team of IS vs. comp team of clans does not result in equal wins either...

^this

[Kaldrenborn]

Aethon, on 27 December 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

First, people wanted Clan mechs dragged down to the level of their IS conterparts, instead of having a numerical advantage.

Now that the Clan omnis are, for the most part, worse than the IS mechs, they want the numerical advantage as well?

I never wanted any of the nerfs done to the clans. I was one of those bitching about the nerfs. The clans mechs need to be the mighty machines that they are. They need to be powerful, and fast, and tough. But, one of the reasons the IS won the invasion to begin with was superior numbers. If anything else, I like the idea posted earlier of 15 vs 16 (3 stars, 4 lances) at least then it would keep more true to lore as far as battle formations are concerned and the difference in numbers between teams would be less. When I see clan players, I just see IS guys in clan mechs.

Edited by DustyHardtail, 27 December 2014 - 03:02 PM.

[Aethon]

DustyHardtail, on 27 December 2014 - 03:01 PM, said:

I never wanted any of the nerfs done to the clans. I was one of those bitching about the nerfs. The clans mechs need to be the mighty machines that they are. They need to be powerful, and fast, and tough. But, one of the reasons the IS won the invasion to begin with was superior numbers. If anything else, I like the idea posted earlier of 15 vs 16 (3 stars, 4 lances) at least then it would keep more true to lore as far as battle formations are concerned and the difference in numbers between teams would be less. When I see clan players, I just see IS guys in clan mechs.

If we get any sort of serious buffs to the Clan omnis, or if we start to see second-line mechs (Highlander IIC with a non-gimped Gauss Rifle, please), or even if we see some decent quirks that put them ALL on par with IS designs, I would be ok with this.

[Hydrocarbon]

Girth Fillmore, on 26 December 2014 - 11:25 PM, said:

This has been addressed multiple times by PGI.

Per Russ Bullock:

10v12

1) Blah
2) blah
3) blah
4) Okay we give up, we simply didn't forsee jack & failed to code in any "Plan B" for anything.

This seems to be the underlying reason for them refusing to change anything. Their brainstorming sessions have but a single plan, and they code that much or less into the game. They didn't ALWAYS have 12v12 after all, and all they'd have to do is have the client run the most simple check "if 10 then lance=5 x2, if 12 then lance=4 x3". They're making it sound like they'd have to change the original Declaration of Independence with period-correct quill/ink/founding father (and obviously all the originals are dead).

I am certain their upper level "critical thinkers" don't play any game mode besides Skirmish. They'd have no clue what to do if the enemy started hidding/capping in Conquest or base rushing in Assault.

[Yokaiko]

DustyHardtail, on 26 December 2014 - 11:12 PM, said:

First off, the clan mechs are supierior, like they should be. So 12 Clan vs 12 IS makes it very difficult for the IS teams, but still possible.

Second, clans fight in groups called Stars, not lances. A star is 5 mechs. A lance is 4 mechs.

2 Clan stars (10) vs 3 IS lances (12) sounds like more of a "fair" fight, and it keeps the game true to canon.

If I am wrong here please let me know, but this is something that bugs me. A lot.

No clan mechs are nerfed to hell.

[cSand]

Adiuvo, on 27 December 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

Comp team of IS vs. comp team of clans does not result in equal wins either...

Assming all "comp level" units are equal that is.

no much like the solo queue or anywhere else it comes down to the pilots, not the mechs

or in this case, the team, not the mechs. There are really only a handful of units in a sea of units, that are actually insanely good...



Anyways long story short here if you can't hack it in an IS mech, sitting yourself behind the wheel in a Timberwolf ain't gonna help you either. Said it another thread, you can sit half these whiner guys in a 300 ton 90KPH deathmachine they still gonna die and complain that XX is OP. Sucky pilots gonna suck either way and will continue to complain until the game hands them victories on a silver platter so they can feel like they are good.

Yes I like my own post

Edited by cSand, 27 December 2014 - 05:12 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Hydrocarbon, on 27 December 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

This seems to be the underlying reason for them refusing to change anything. Their brainstorming sessions have but a single plan, and they code that much or less into the game. They didn't ALWAYS have 12v12 after all, and all they'd have to do is have the client run the most simple check "if 10 then lance=5 x2, if 12 then lance=4 x3". They're making it sound like they'd have to change the original Declaration of Independence with period-correct quill/ink/founding father (and obviously all the originals are dead).

I am certain their upper level "critical thinkers" don't play any game mode besides Skirmish. They'd have no clue what to do if the enemy started hidding/capping in Conquest or base rushing in Assault.

Fact they can't do ten v 12 because the Nerfinator already went nutz once.

[Metus regem]

DustyHardtail, on 26 December 2014 - 11:12 PM, said:

First off, the clan mechs are supierior, like they should be. So 12 Clan vs 12 IS makes it very difficult for the IS teams, but still possible.

Second, clans fight in groups called Stars, not lances. A star is 5 mechs. A lance is 4 mechs.

2 Clan stars (10) vs 3 IS lances (12) sounds like more of a "fair" fight, and it keeps the game true to canon.

If I am wrong here please let me know, but this is something that bugs me. A lot.

I would happily drop as a binary against a company, if our mechs were not the shadows of their former table top selves.

How ever due to a coding issues, PGI had to keep it 12 on 12, and that necesitated the need to turn the clan mechs into watered down versions of what they should be.

And if you do not think they are watered down, I recommend playing some TT or MegaMek, at 3050 to see what I mean.

[Jabilo]

Not at the moment.

Clan tech nerfs and IS quirks have been introduced to balance the game 12 vs 12.

I personally voted for 10 vs 12 right at the beginning (with clan tech left as it was originally - far more powerful).

In their wisdom the devs decided to not go that path and so I am afraid that ship has sailed.