69 replies to this topic

[Eisenhorne]

WardenWolf, on 27 June 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

According to Solaris Skunk Werks, a 50 ton mech with 1 Gauss Rifle w/ 2 tons of ammo, 2 x ERPPC (so the range is similar), double heat sinks (just the normal amt that come with the engine), XL engine at 54kph, and 6 tons of ferrofibrous armor should be doable. Exactly the right number of crits - not one to spare

Now that would be a bit of a glass cannon... and a SLOW glass cannon at that... not sure of the effectiveness...

Know what has a similar speed and way more armor? An ATLAS!

Just give the atlas a Gauss rifle and PPC's and your good to go.

[Odanan]

Xandre Blackheart, on 27 June 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting hardpoints. Shame. LRM 5's are awesome for just slapping on long range firepower. I guess the alternative would be to put in ONE PPC and seven heat sinks, but that's still pushing it on top of a gauss rifle. But it would be a huge amount of firepower for a 50 ton Mech.

LRM-5s sucks and shouldn't even exist (the same for SRM-2).

[Earthtalker]

A Hunchback using in game tech levels could have 1 PPC, 1 Guass w/2 tons of ammo, and a small laser. All this with full Ferro armor, an Endo Steel Chassis, a 4/6 movement curve, and DHS. Doable, but not advisable as you are giving away sustainable damage for burst.

I could be wrong about the Endo Steel, though. If that's not in game then it wouldn't be very smart to go into battle with only 7 tons of FF armor on a Medium Brawler. It would still work.

Edited by Earthtalker, 27 June 2012 - 07:36 PM.

[Xandre Blackheart]

Eisenhorne, on 27 June 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

Normally I'd rather have 2-3 medium lasers + a bigger engine / armor than a PCC with barely enough heat sinks and a slow *** mech with paper armor.

Well yes of course. But if the man wants a 50 ton "sniper" mech, why pour urine on his idea? With hardpoint limitations it's as close as he could get to the original idea and still be somewhat viable.

I mean if you want to be PRACTICAL why not go for the HBK-4N - The 4N variant combines the qualities of the 4H and 4J. The main weapons are an Autocannon/5 and a pair of LRM-5 launchers. This makes the 4N capable of direct fire and indirect fire support. Additionally, two Medium Lasers have been added to the design.

But it involves buying another chassis I suppose. Short of that he'd probably be better off just dumping the gauss rifle all together and sticking with 2 PPC's and dumping everything else into heat sinks. Sort of goes against the whole point of a hunchback though.

[Eisenhorne]

I didn't mean to urinate on his idea

Its just that for a sniper variant 50 ton mech, he's better off with just the Gauss and being more mobile

[Earthtalker]

Xandre Blackheart, on 27 June 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

Well yes of course. But if the man wants a 50 ton "sniper" mech, why pour urine on his idea? With hardpoint limitations it's as close as he could get to the original idea and still be somewhat viable.

I mean if you want to be PRACTICAL why not go for the HBK-4N - The 4N variant combines the qualities of the 4H and 4J. The main weapons are an Autocannon/5 and a pair of LRM-5 launchers. This makes the 4N capable of direct fire and indirect fire support. Additionally, two Medium Lasers have been added to the design.

But it involves buying another chassis I suppose. Short of that he'd probably be better off just dumping the gauss rifle all together and sticking with 2 PPC's and dumping everything else into heat sinks. Sort of goes against the whole point of a hunchback though.

Be one hell of a wake up call, though. Just imagine the look of utter shock and disbelief on the other pilots face when your shoot PPC bolts out of you hand when he expects AC/20. Things like that are almost better than getting paid.....almost.

[Voyager I]

Odanan, on 27 June 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

LRM-5s sucks and shouldn't even exist (the same for SRM-2).

They're actually very weight-efficient ways of adding a little extra damage onto your mech. That's akin to saying we shouldn't have any lasers smaller than large.

Compare getting two LRM-5's vs a single LRM-10. The only reason you wouldn't pick the former is if you didn't have the hardpoints.


As for your sniper Hunchback; that's not a medium mech loadout, and you're turning your medium into a cripple by attempting it.

[Zomeguy]

Skadi, on 27 June 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

*Cat lights on fire from overheating*

lol

[Doomliger]

Ok so to summerize, its gonna have heat issues, and slow etc

but... why do we even need speed when you are about 1000m away from the target, and if it isn't armed with long range weapons the sniper mech is viable? if.. all 3 shots hit... the enemy mech is already crippled. and you are sorted right? not to mention to get to a far back sniper mech, they have to travel through the rest of your team first.

plus being slow is ok, since u will be miles back from your main force? surely no one will travel through all of them and that big fat atlas to get to u right ^^

Edited by Doomliger, 27 June 2012 - 07:50 PM.

[Xandre Blackheart]

Odanan, on 27 June 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

LRM-5s sucks and shouldn't even exist (the same for SRM-2).

Uh no, I'll take 2 LRM 5 over 1 LRM 10 any day of the week. Look at the specs:

Type Heat Tons Crit Ammo
LRM-5 2 2 1 24
LRM-10 4 5 2 12
LRM-15 5 7 3 8
LRM-20 6 10 5 6

2 LRM 5 with one ton of ammo each is 6 tons with 4 heat and 24 shots.

1 LRM 10 with 1 ton of ammo is 6 tons with 4 heat and 12 shots.

Granted these are the original table top rules and the effectiveness of LRM 5's might drop if they play fast and loose with the original specs. But in the standard game LRM 5's are quite nice.

Edited because the table EXPLODED

Edited by Xandre Blackheart, 27 June 2012 - 07:58 PM.

[Spleenslitta]

I would just swap the AC 20 with a Gauss and plenty of ammo. Leave the medium lasers just in case. Get a CASE for the gauss coils.
Do some weight saving by getting Endo, Ferro or XL engine. Not all three at the same time mind you.
Put in an ECM or Spoofer and a much more powerfull engine.

What's worse than a slow moving mech with superior longrange firepower?
- A mech with decent long range firepower that has electronic warfare equipment and enough speed to stay out of your clutches.

Remember this because it's extremely important!!!
If you can pick the time, place and range of engagement at all times then you will rule the battlefield.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 27 June 2012 - 07:56 PM.

[Derek Icelord]

Possible, yes. Practical, no.

On the 50 ton chassis, the Gauss Rifle takes up 15 tons and the PPCs use 7 tons each. Without downgrading the engine to a lighter (but slower) rating or shelling out the C-Bills for an XL engine or Endo-Steel internals, you're left with only 2.5 tons. This is with no extra heat sinks or any armor at all. Oh, and no ammo for the Gauss Rifle, which is another ton for every 8 shots.

Upping the Engine to an XL version of the same rating (i.e. no drop in top speed) and converting the internal structure to Endo-Steel, you've got 9 tons. This is still with no extra heat sinks, no armor, and no ammo. There aren't enough critical slots to convert to Ferro-Fiberous armor. You're also over double your heat sink ability to dissipate.

EDIT: Whoops, Gauss Rifle is 15 tons, not 12.

Edited by Derek Icelord, 27 June 2012 - 08:29 PM.

[Xandre Blackheart]

Eisenhorne, on 27 June 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

I didn't mean to urinate on his idea

Its just that for a sniper variant 50 ton mech, he's better off with just the Gauss and being more mobile

Oh I agree totally. but some people want crazy sh.. stuff.

[Voyager I]

Doomliger, on 27 June 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

Ok so to summerize, its gonna have heat issues, and slow etc

but... why do we even need speed when you are about 1000m away from the target, and if it isn't armed with long range weapons the sniper mech is viable? if.. all 3 shots hit... the enemy mech is already crippled. and you are sorted right? not to mention to get to a far back sniper mech, they have to travel through the rest of your team first.

plus being slow is ok, since u will be miles back from your main force? surely no one will travel through all of them and that big fat atlas to get to u right ^^

You'll be struggling to get into firing position by the time fights start happening, and if you even encounter enemy fire support mechs you can kiss your ride goodbye.

Hell, you're liable to get torn up by Scouts who catch you slogging to the front.

[Xandre Blackheart]

Doomliger, on 27 June 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

Ok so to summerize, its gonna have heat issues, and slow etc

but... why do we even need speed when you are about 1000m away from the target, and if it isn't armed with long range weapons the sniper mech is viable? if.. all 3 shots hit... the enemy mech is already crippled. and you are sorted right? not to mention to get to a far back sniper mech, they have to travel through the rest of your team first.

plus being slow is ok, since u will be miles back from your main force? surely no one will travel through all of them and that big fat atlas to get to u right ^^

Assuming you will be the only mech on the field with long range weapons is the issue. I'm not saying don't try it, I'm just suggesting there are ways to mitigate the impractical aspects of your original design idea.

Such as not having to remove armor to the point that one lucky LRM 20 is going to hit something critical.

[Derek Icelord]

Doomliger, on 27 June 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

but... why do we even need speed when you are about 1000m away from the target, and if it isn't armed with long range weapons the sniper mech is viable?

Because you aren't going to be able to hit from over a kilometer away. Despite what previous MechWarrior titles (and the Living Legends mod) would have you believe, the longest range you're going to get out of this combo is 690 meters with an ER PPC (which is also 50% more heat over the standard version). The Gauss Rifle can reach out to 660 meters. While yes, the devs said your weapon fire won't just disappear after the max range, it's not a good idea to plan for that range of engagement.

And as Voyager I mentioned, if you're in range, so are they.

Murphy's 1st rule of combat.

[Spleenslitta]

Doomliger, on 27 June 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

Ok so to summerize, its gonna have heat issues, and slow etc

but... why do we even need speed when you are about 1000m away from the target, and if it isn't armed with long range weapons the sniper mech is viable? if.. all 3 shots hit... the enemy mech is already crippled. and you are sorted right? not to mention to get to a far back sniper mech, they have to travel through the rest of your team first.

plus being slow is ok, since u will be miles back from your main force? surely no one will travel through all of them and that big fat atlas to get to u right ^^

A Gauss rifle has a maximum range of 630 meters in MW:O if the dev's follow canon like they said they would so staying 1000meters away won't do you any good.
A PPC only reaches out to 540 meters. An ER PPC has a range of 690 meters but it's the hotest weapon available.

Trust me and try reading my post #31. It puts a more realistic perspective on things.
You could of course use the Swayback variant and use an ER PPC with a few medium lasers on the side for close defence and double heatsinks too.
But keep moving...First rule for real life snipers is one shot and then move like the neighbors pitbull is about to bite you in the buttocks if you don't run fast enough.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 27 June 2012 - 08:11 PM.

[Derek Icelord]

Also to add, you won't be "miles" from the enemy. Even if you could camp a full kilometer out, that's only about 5/8 of a mile.

[Spleenslitta]

Derek Icelord, on 27 June 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

Because you aren't going to be able to hit from over a kilometer away. Despite what previous MechWarrior titles (and the Living Legends mod) would have you believe, the longest range you're going to get out of this combo is 690 meters with an ER PPC (which is also 50% more heat over the standard version). The Gauss Rifle can reach out to 660 meters. While yes, the devs said your weapon fire won't just disappear after the max range, it's not a good idea to plan for that range of engagement.

And as Voyager I mentioned, if you're in range, so are they.

Murphy's 1st rule of combat.

This guy makes another point you need to keep in mind. You're not the only one out there with a big gun with long range.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Derek Icelord, on 27 June 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

Possible, yes. Practical, no.

On the 50 ton chassis, the Gauss Rifle takes up 12 tons and the PPCs use 7 tons each. Without downgrading the engine to a lighter (but slower) rating or shelling out the C-Bills for an XL engine or Endo-Steel internals, you're left with only 2.5 tons. This is with no extra heat sinks or any armor at all. Oh, and no ammo for the Gauss Rifle, which is another ton for every 8 shots.

Upping the Engine to an XL version of the same rating (i.e. no drop in top speed) and converting the internal structure to Endo-Steel, you've got 9 tons. This is still with no extra heat sinks, no armor, and no ammo. There aren't enough critical slots to convert to Ferro-Fiberous armor. You're also over double your heat sink ability to dissipate.

Inner Sphere gauss rifle is 15 tons, not 12.

You can easily do a gauss with 24 shots, 2medium lasers, and an ECM without endosteel, DHS, or XL engine. IF you upgrade to endosteel, DHS, an XL 200 rated engine, and drop the ECM, you could upgrade those medium lasers to a pairs of large lasers instead, and you'd still have your original 10 tons of armor. And I think you have the crit slots for it. But I wouldn't recommend ER lasers due to the heat, since you'd only have 10 double heat sinks.