23 replies to this topic

[Orion the Hunter]

So we've noticed that "mercs" occupy not a niche, but instead one of the broadest demographics in MWO. Everyone calls themselves "mercs" and claims to have "employers" when in reality they are just units that have chosen a side, but claim no loyalty.

I have seen through various forums complaints about mech restrictions, as well as no real incentive to stick with any one side. Therefore, you get multitudes of people who just go around and tie other people up and get in the way. Yet they still get full benefits.

So here's some ideas:

Pledging your unit to "Merc" status would:

• allow access to mechs from both IS and Clan (maybe tweak limitations on drop decks for this as well?)
  
• no access to loyalty points, but higher pay in CBills
  
• reduced logistics costs (when implemented - implied ability to have local sources/contacts)
  
• Mercs would not be eligible to hold planets

Also, pay for mercs should work on a sliding scale, which is dictated at the time the merc unit selects a location to fight. Mercs would be able to select any active fight that is going on. Mercs would receive NOTHING for joining a battle that is even, or within 6 people of even. But at 7 and up, Mercs would receive VERY LARGE incentives for assisting the outnumbered team. These incentives would scale, and would create a "Battle Value"

Maybe create a rating system where mercs develop a reputation, where if they fight against one faction too much, it becomes harder for them to get high paying contracts from that faction and their allies for some time (to prevent too much flip flopping)

Create limitations or penalties for switching factions as a loyalist (not a merc unit) Like units from the Steiner military or the Clans.

Now, Loyalty stores should have special and unique equipment available (unique to each faction and maybe focusing on certain playstyles) I'm not talking cockpit garbage either, I'm thinking unique modules that are "issued" for loyalty points. An interesting concept to prevent "collectionists" from hopping around would be that the equipment is lost if you lose loyalty with said faction, and you could have your loyalty shift based on how you earn loyalty with other factions (ie. raising your loyalty with a house could lower your loyalty with some clans, depending on their relations/borders)

I'm just spitballing, in order to put a different spin on a third subgroup of factions, so you have Loyalist Clans, Loyalist IS and Mercs

[Noesis]

PGI have commented about the evolution of MWO to potentially include the MRBC.

Black market options and Bandit/Pirate gameplay would also help to distinguish other groups better, who are not even remotely concerned with sticking flags in planets.

[Ax2Grind]

Well, the reality is that currently everyone in the game is basically considered a Merc. Instead of splitting the factions up so that we all had different objectives and rewards and mechanics PGI put us all in the same bag. We all pick a contract...therefore we are all Mercs. Loyalists may choose a lifetime/forever contract but it is still a contract. I too would love if it there was actual variation to the unit types. Rewards specific to your faction...not generic rewards all merc get like it currently stands.

[meteorol]

Orion the Hunter, on 31 December 2014 - 01:22 AM, said:

• allow access to mechs from both IS and Clan (maybe tweak limitations on drop decks for this as well?)

So you could use IS lights and clan mediums/heavies in one deck? That would make everyone and their grandmother go merc.

[Karl Marlow]

Yeah I would give ole lefty to have a Dire Wolf and Timber Wolf in my IS drop deck.

[ArcLyght]

I like your concept.

[Codeine Radick]

Seems legit. Though i would only augment one point.

"no access to loyalty points, but higher pay in CBills" <-- In the positive. Fighting and destroying assets of another faction enough times should still make them hate you for it. So a LP loss is sustained but no gain is given since the house/clan knows your in it for the money. Of which you would get more of.

[CyclonerM]

I do not agree with the mixtech bit and reduced logistics cost, but i like the spirit of your ideas: differtiating mercs and regular units.

Mixtech: small salvage (things like being able to bring 1 Clan 'Mech in your Drop Ship, but only if you salvaged it with some meaningful salvage system) could be fine only if there are some limitations and penalizations, possibly in the form of R&R, as maintaining a salvaged Clan 'Mech in 3050 is something that could be afforded to be done for a First Prince, not for every Mech jock in the Sphere.

Logistics: i think mercs should pay higher logistics costs, be it jump fees or R&R, because they would have to use , repair and replace their own equipment, while House/Clan players would have some standard issue equipment that would be replaced for free, paid by the military.

I would also love to see a reputation system. Frequent faction switches (especially between Clan and IS ) should give them a negative reputation and less bonuses/pays.

Edited by CyclonerM, 01 January 2015 - 01:06 PM.

[Alexander Steel]

Couple of things.

1. Mercs shouldn't have access to Clan Tech until after the IS in general has access to it. For the VAST majority of Merc Units they got upgraded to 3050/Star League tech AFTER mainline house units did. Mercs in general ((and certainly the ones in the game we are supposed to be)) had worse tech.

2. There should be an added Loyalty Path for mercs called Outreach or Dragoon Merc Hiring Board.

3. I would let mercs gain loyalty, but the Merc loyalty rate would cost 3 times the points of normal factions and after each match they'd get 80% merc and 20% house they worked for.

4. I like the idea of mercs getting more money than house units.

[ztac]

What's the point of having factions if everyone is going to start using everyone else's mechs? Part of the fun should be working around what is permissible for your faction to use (If they ever put that in). We can all get around to using what we want purely by changing faction.... chances are most will anyway chasing rewards for each faction!

Don't get me wrong it would be nice to supplement a clan deck with certain IS mechs right now ... But who knows what adjustments PGI may make in the future!

We will all be acting like mercs no doubt ......chasing rewards!

In the end they don't need to balance mercs , but actual population's of different factions using algorithm's and the like , but they also have to work out a different way of making CW conquests count as any rotation system is flawed on time zone populations (currently flips happen on U.S. time).... there are different ways of doing this other than time based.

Edited by ztac, 01 January 2015 - 03:58 PM.

[Orion the Hunter]

I think giving Mercs mixed tech should actually be forced on them, like a 3:1 ratio or a 2:2 ratio, not just free range to go all clans or all IS, it means they have to really work out their drop decks and would have to coordinate their teams even better to complement each other, giving them variety, but difficulty. It would also present for an even wider range of unit skills from the absolute worst to some of the best combinations.

Also, I agree with the loss of loyalty points for factions you piss off. If you attack clan wolf you lose Wolf Loyalty, plus loyalty with the other clans at half the rate. Also, for mercs it wouldnt be loyalty, but instead it would determine their difficulty to get jobs (battles) with that faction.

Also, Mercs should have a system in place that judges their efficiency and that should have an effect on their ability to get jobs (or at least the pay they get from jobs)

[ztac]

Losing faction points could lead to an exploit of maxing out faction loyalty then losing points to only get them back and 'hey presto' maximum reward again! , you could lock in rewards though (once given you never get them again) and the loyalty is pushed back ...... but this would have no effect anyway on a player that already had maximum rewards and thus would be pointless.

Unless there was some kind of gear incentive with each faction ... slightly better damage lasers ... stuff like that , you drop below the threshold and BAM you can't use that anymore! But then any merc in a faction could just avoid attacking the other faction's planets.....

I still think mixing different faction mechs would be a mistake , sure let mercs go all IS or all Clans.... but not a mix,

Edited by ztac, 01 January 2015 - 04:06 PM.

[Kjudoon]

With the exception of mixed clan/is units I like this.

[Joe Mallad]

I think only those that are or become a house/faction unit, should gain LPs. I also think the "permanent contract" title should be renamed to "Standing unit Contract" If your unit decides to take the Standing unit contract with a house, you should start gaining LPs from that house as you are now loyal to them. But if you decide to later break that contract, take your C-bill hit for breaking that contract, you also lose all LPs. But while your unit is a "house unit" under that "Standing unit Contract" each member of your unit should gain a C-bill "paycheck" each and every week while your unit is under that House/Clan.

I also think Merc units should not gain LPs but have their own RPs (renown points) list that works something like LP would for faction groups. If we take a contract with a House and win a match under their contract, we gain so much renown with that faction. But the PRs (renown points) should work as a positive and negative system like the current LPs system works. If we worked for kurita at one point but now for Davion and attacking Kurita, than our renown with Kurita should drop some. And unlike standing house units that get a C-bill paycheck each week, The Merc unit only make money off our contracts.

If you are a faction unit that has a standing contract, you are always going to fight for that house/clan... so you should ONLY gain LPs with your house/clan you are loyal to. You would not have LPs with another house/Clan so there would be no need for a negative LP system for standing house units. If you leave that house and beak your Standing unit obligations, youll lose all LPs you gained at that point anyway. So youll be right back to 0 and would have to pick a new house to side with and stat building LPs with them.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 01 January 2015 - 11:09 PM.

[Wildstreak]

Orion the Hunter, on 31 December 2014 - 01:22 AM, said:

• allow access to mechs from both IS and Clan (maybe tweak limitations on drop decks for this as well?)

No, give each side access to a pool of Mechs from the other side. Nothing prevents Mercs from simply renewing contracts to one Faction then, over TS and through coordination, using the Mechs that Faction normally does not have access to for filling gaps in that Faction. Clans get Firestarters & Jenners for rushes plus PPC T-Bolts, IS gets Timber Wolves & Stormcrows. End result, the meta goes more stale.

Orion the Hunter, on 31 December 2014 - 01:22 AM, said:

• no access to loyalty points, but higher pay in CBills

We get CB from Faction Achievements now. If Mercs get some kind of CB boost, House units should too.

Orion the Hunter, on 31 December 2014 - 01:22 AM, said:

• reduced logistics costs (when implemented - implied ability to have local sources/contacts)

Don't recall how this works. I know logistics for Mercs do tend to cost more because they us a different system and work more with civilian logistics in order to maintain their independence, Loyal Faction Units are the ones who should get cheaper logistics.

Orion the Hunter, on 31 December 2014 - 01:22 AM, said:

• Mercs would not be eligible to hold planets

Except they have held planets therefore should.

Orion the Hunter, on 31 December 2014 - 01:22 AM, said:

Also, pay for mercs should work on a sliding scale, which is dictated at the time the merc unit selects a location to fight. Mercs would be able to select any active fight that is going on. Mercs would receive NOTHING for joining a battle that is even, or within 6 people of even. But at 7 and up, Mercs would receive VERY LARGE incentives for assisting the outnumbered team. These incentives would scale, and would create a "Battle Value"

Just give them an end of match CB, maybe XP boost Loyal Faction units do not get while reducing their LP gain as Alexander Steel said. House players could get some kind of flat rate boost representing regular pay.

Orion the Hunter, on 31 December 2014 - 01:22 AM, said:

Maybe create a rating system where mercs develop a reputation, where if they fight against one faction too much, it becomes harder for them to get high paying contracts from that faction and their allies for some time (to prevent too much flip flopping)

Actually there were Mmerc units that could fight a faction then get employment from that faction later.

Orion the Hunter, on 31 December 2014 - 01:22 AM, said:

Create limitations or penalties for switching factions as a loyalist (not a merc unit) Like units from the Steiner military or the Clans.

?

Orion the Hunter, on 31 December 2014 - 01:22 AM, said:

Now, Loyalty stores should have special and unique equipment available (unique to each faction and maybe focusing on certain playstyles) I'm not talking cockpit garbage either, I'm thinking unique modules that are "issued" for loyalty points. An interesting concept to prevent "collectionists" from hopping around would be that the equipment is lost if you lose loyalty with said faction, and you could have your loyalty shift based on how you earn loyalty with other factions (ie. raising your loyalty with a house could lower your loyalty with some clans, depending on their relations/borders)

What about those medallions? Some Faction players got those for LP bonuses (have not heard of anyone testing them if they work now), Mercs could get medallions for CB boosts instead.

[Angry bovine]

Orion the Hunter, on 31 December 2014 - 01:22 AM, said:

So we've noticed that "mercs" occupy not a niche, but instead one of the broadest demographics in MWO. Everyone calls themselves "mercs" and claims to have "employers" when in reality they are just units that have chosen a side, but claim no loyalty.

I have seen through various forums complaints about mech restrictions, as well as no real incentive to stick with any one side. Therefore, you get multitudes of people who just go around and tie other people up and get in the way. Yet they still get full benefits.

So here's some ideas:

Pledging your unit to "Merc" status would:

• allow access to mechs from both IS and Clan (maybe tweak limitations on drop decks for this as well?)
  
• no access to loyalty points, but higher pay in CBills
  
• reduced logistics costs (when implemented - implied ability to have local sources/contacts)
  
• Mercs would not be eligible to hold planets

Also, pay for mercs should work on a sliding scale, which is dictated at the time the merc unit selects a location to fight. Mercs would be able to select any active fight that is going on. Mercs would receive NOTHING for joining a battle that is even, or within 6 people of even. But at 7 and up, Mercs would receive VERY LARGE incentives for assisting the outnumbered team. These incentives would scale, and would create a "Battle Value"


Maybe create a rating system where mercs develop a reputation, where if they fight against one faction too much, it becomes harder for them to get high paying contracts from that faction and their allies for some time (to prevent too much flip flopping)

Create limitations or penalties for switching factions as a loyalist (not a merc unit) Like units from the Steiner military or the Clans.

Now, Loyalty stores should have special and unique equipment available (unique to each faction and maybe focusing on certain playstyles) I'm not talking cockpit garbage either, I'm thinking unique modules that are "issued" for loyalty points. An interesting concept to prevent "collectionists" from hopping around would be that the equipment is lost if you lose loyalty with said faction, and you could have your loyalty shift based on how you earn loyalty with other factions (ie. raising your loyalty with a house could lower your loyalty with some clans, depending on their relations/borders)

I'm just spitballing, in order to put a different spin on a third subgroup of factions, so you have Loyalist Clans, Loyalist IS and Mercs

I am very against mixed tech in CW. for one, Its the Clan invasion and the IS don't have that much clan tech yet. barring mercs from loyalty points is a dumb idea, you can get MC, cockpit items and mech bays for loyalty points, giving mercs more c-bills istead is not fair substitute . they already have penalties for switching factions (you have to pay C-bills).

[Gordon Gecko]

Orion the Hunter, on 31 December 2014 - 01:22 AM, said:

So here's some ideas:

Pledging your unit to "Merc" status would:

• allow access to mechs from both IS and Clan (maybe tweak limitations on drop decks for this as well?)

Good Stuff, Mercs should be allowed to use both tech.

• no access to loyalty points, but higher pay in CBILLS

Kind of irrelevant right now as both are almost the same. I can live w/o a few mechbays.

• reduced logistics costs (when implemented - implied ability to have local sources/contacts)

I would think our logistics costs would be higher actually, moving armies/companies around from place to place. Jump Ship rentals are not cheap.

• Mercs would not be eligible to hold planets

Well, you almosty had me sold, what would be the point? Every unit wants to tag planets. I have enough cbills.


Also, pay for mercs should work on a sliding scale, which is dictated at the time the merc unit selects a location to fight. Mercs would be able to select any active fight that is going on. Mercs would receive NOTHING for joining a battle that is even, or within 6 people of even. But at 7 and up, Mercs would receive VERY LARGE incentives for assisting the outnumbered team. These incentives would scale, and would create a "Battle Value"

Not a bad idea but why not implement this across the board.


Maybe create a rating system where mercs develop a reputation, where if they fight against one faction too much, it becomes harder for them to get high paying contracts from that faction and their allies for some time (to prevent too much flip flopping)

Dragoons Rating would be great. That makes sense, if a merc went CGB and beat the hell out of FRR, they likely wouldnt hire them? Or would they? If the merc was a powerhouse and agreed to a long term contract and the employer was desperate, why wouldnt they hire them?

Now, Loyalty stores should have special and unique equipment available (unique to each faction and maybe focusing on certain playstyles) I'm not talking cockpit garbage either, I'm thinking unique modules that are "issued" for loyalty points. An interesting concept to prevent "collectionists" from hopping around would be that the equipment is lost if you lose loyalty with said faction, and you could have your loyalty shift based on how you earn loyalty with other factions (ie. raising your loyalty with a house could lower your loyalty with some clans, depending on their relations/borders)

I like this idea, it was said that a Star League Nuero Helmet was far superior to a standard issued Helmet in lore. So why not give us Loyalty Modules we can equip that willl boost Sensor range, target info gather etc.?

I'm just spitballing, in order to put a different spin on a third subgroup of factions, so you have Loyalist Clans, Loyalist IS and Mercs

dd

Edited by Gordon Gecko, 18 February 2015 - 06:26 AM.

[Gyrok]

Mercs should not hold planets. A few units were "gifted" home worlds that they call their own, most famously, Outreach to Wolf's Dragoons, however, that was the exception, not the rule. Additionally, mercs do not need multiple planets as a home base.

[Tarl Cabot]

Technically we are all mercs atm with the only division being the length of our contract. There was another thread about mercs being hired by other "mercs". Unless/until PGI adds actual House units/designation anything that affects one set of mercs will affect everyone.

[Necromantion]

Read this post:
http://mwomercs.com/...ntial-solution/