*Ahem* Ammo explosion. Y'know, since we're talking about unlikely things.
Yeah, that's possible too, but also extremely unlikely. It requires there be ammo in one leg / the other leg nearly destroyed or ammo in both legs. There needs to be sufficient ammo remaining to explode for sufficient damage. The ammo bin needs to have taken sufficient damage already that a couple tiny pellet crits can destroy it/them, enough pellet crits ha e to hit the ammo bin(s) instead of actuators, gyros and such, and it/they need to fail their 10% chance to explode. That's a pretty complex and rare situation.
I like that the LBX is 1 slot smaller. This means I can put both the LBX and an AC5 in the same arm together on a Jager or the King Crab. Also LBX+(er)ppc make a good combo of pinpoint+hit anything damage.
I have had quite a few matches in my 3-LBX10 Ilya where I was around 1000 dmg with 5+kills. Just got to be patient and wait for targets to soften a bit before making your move.
I'm a big fan of the LB, even if it is objectively worse than the straight AC 10 for most cases. There are beautiful exceptions like fitting two of them in some Atlas chassis, and I actually run a 2LBX10, 2PPC, 4MG build on my King Crab that just saws off components of people who get close like nobody's business.
Certain Clan and IS mechs have tighter spreads than others -- not a quirk related thing but something to do with the 3D models and source of blast. Hellbringer for example will have an almost single projectile blast for an LBX-20 out to 300 meters.
Heat. For every single shot you fire, the LBX-10 generates 1 point less heat than the AC/10 for the Inner Sphere. (This would also be true of Clans with LBX-10 and UAC/10, but PGI "balanced them" to be identical).
Say you fire 3 shots in 5 seconds.
LBX-10: 6 heat in 5 seconds.
AC/10: 9 heat in 5 seconds.
There's another thing. An AC/10 has a low crit chance, as do most weapons.
A single shot AC/10 will deliver 10 damage in a crit, instantly destroying what it crits when it does do so. On the extremely unlikely chance of triple critting, it'd destroy 3 things.
A single crit will make the actual damage to the structure of a mech become 11.5 instead of just 10. A triple crit will deal 14.5 damage to structure (10 + 15% of 30 crit damage = 14.5 damage).
An LBX-10 will generate much higher crit rates, with almost every pellet dealing some kind of crit damage.
A pellet's crit damage is 1 for a single crit, and 3 for a triple crit. Say out of 10 pellets, 7 of them crit. 15% of that is 1.05.
10 + 1.05 = 11.05 damage to structure assuming they all hit that same spot. Not quite as good as that 11.5 from the AC/10. But a double crit chance is super high, and triple crits are not statistical impossibilities (unlike for the AC/10).
If each triple critted and hit the same spot, it'd deal 14.5 damage. The thing is those triple crits are almost 20% more likely to happen with the LBX-10 than with the AC/10.
Skip to 6 minutes into this match for an LBX-10 in a Heavy Metal DPS build.
Completely identical mech, in a cooler environment, with only an AC/10 and 1 ton less ammo as a change -- and it runs hotter than the same build with an LBX-10 while that's on the hotter map. So much hotter that I am forced to chainfire my medium lasers! O_O!
Yeah, all of that's pretty fancy; I just like the way they FEEL. They feel like they saw stuff off faster, and they feel like I can salvage damage from near misses. Also they sound pretty sweet.
Same reason I rocked pulse lasers before the buff, except instead of salvaging damage, it was easier to group damage. Like a lot.
/edit: He's totally right about the heat though. I can stare at your face while dumping damage on it far longer before overheating with my LBX KGC.
I've had a lot of success with the LBX. Contrary to most of what WinterDark as said. Used to run dual lbx's on the firebrand and one shot swatted fresh lights all the time. medium and up certainly the trick is to wait a tad for them to already be mangled a bit. so I'd defend against the lights for the start of the match and after they were gone (dead or otherwise) then support on the bigger mechs. worked out quite well.
As with most everything in this game it's all in how you use it.
I've had a lot of success with the LBX. Contrary to most of what WinterDark as said. Used to run dual lbx's on the firebrand and one shot swatted fresh lights all the time. medium and up certainly the trick is to wait a tad for them to already be mangled a bit. so I'd defend against the lights for the start of the match and after they were gone (dead or otherwise) then support on the bigger mechs. worked out quite well.
As with most everything in this game it's all in how you use it.
I call BS. You don't "oneshot fresh lights" with even two LBX's. It's impossible, unless the light pilot is an utter moron who stripped off all his armor. 20 damage doesn't one-shot a locust, even if it magically all hits the same location. The video I linked above shots a 2xLBX-10 Jag firing on a stock cicada. It has *12* side torso armor. 12. 22 CT armor. It takes 10 volleys, 20 shots, to finally get a "kill"(ST destruction) on that cicada. A pair of AC10's could have penetrated the ST in the first volley; nearly destroyed the CT in 2.
(Edit: Well, to head it off: It's *theoretically* possible to oneshot a Locust with a 20 point hit, if you hit them in the rear ST and they've got nearly no armor there; but this is extremely unlikely with LBX's. You'd need to literally have the cannon barrels pressed against the Locusts' RST. Far more likely with AC10's or an AC20, and still quite unlikely.)
LBX's are still 10 damage cannons, they don't do nothing. But don't fool yourself, they are nowhere near AC10's, for all the reasons stated above. And those reasons? They're math. Not "But they feel great to me" or "But I do fine with them".
As I've said before, it's fine to use them because you like them, because they're fun. I'm all for people enjoying themselves in the game. And I'm not saying they do nothing. 10 damage is 10 damage. But don't fool yourself into thinking you're better off equipping them instead of AC10's. That just shows a terrible ignorance of how they (and crits) actually work.
Edited by Wintersdark, 03 January 2015 - 02:54 PM.
Well you're practically sniping at that range.
You didn't expect to pull this off, did you?
(Wait until you see the pump action shotgun with the sniper's scope fired at the helicopter around 2 mins in.)
lol!
One thing that was in the eaten post, but I'll repeat:
Clan LBX's ARE cooler than UAC's; they have totally different stats. This extends to Clan AC's compared to UAC's, so the CAC10 is 2 heat and the CUAC10 is 3 heat, and 6/7 for the 20's. Also, the AC2 and AC5 have longer range than the UAC2 and UAC5.
Clan LBX's ARE cooler than UAC's; they have totally different stats. This extends to Clan AC's compared to UAC's, so the CAC10 is 2 heat and the CUAC10 is 3 heat, and 6/7 for the 20's. Also, the AC2 and AC5 have longer range than the UAC2 and UAC5.
They restored that?! YAY! (For a brief while they had put both Clan UAC/20 and LBX/AC/20 at 6 heat and both kinds of 10s at 2 or 3 heat (not sure which) which drove me nuts. I'm glad they put it back.)
Oh, too bad this one doesn't work in MWO. You'll know when you see it.
pure LBX mayhem is the 6xLBX5 on a direwolf. May not be the best thing in the world but for the fun nearly constant 30 spread damage it gets a point across pretty quick.
pure LBX mayhem is the 6xLBX5 on a direwolf. May not be the best thing in the world but for the fun nearly constant 30 spread damage it gets a point across pretty quick.
odd ball builds are always the most fun.
It IS a lot of fun. A terrible build really, but it's a hell of a lot of fun. It's one of the few ways you can recapture the Glorious Dakka Of Old, as per the old AC2 jags.
They restored that?! YAY! (For a brief while they had put both Clan UAC/20 and LBX/AC/20 at 6 heat and both kinds of 10s at 2 or 3 heat (not sure which) which drove me nuts. I'm glad they put it back.)
Yeah, they were the same only for a very brief time. I actually frequently run CAC10's on my DWF builds specifically because of the lower heat. Dual gauss, 4 ERML, CAC10, 2xSRM6. CUAC20's make the build crazy punchy but super hot, while the CAC10 makes it almost heat neutral - you can actually cool off while firing everything except the ERML's.
Quote
Oh, too bad this one doesn't work in MWO. You'll know when you see it.
LOL!
Seriously, though, while I rag on the LBX's all the time, I want to emphasis that they're not useless, but that they're also not good. Just that it's important for people to understand exactly how they work, and not spread disinformation with regards to "Oh, they're better once armor is gone because [magic]Crit Seeking[/magic]" without really understanding what they're saying. They're really not good weapons (IS side in particular, as the AC10 is kind of the red headed stepchild of AC's to begin with and it's still better than the LBX) but you absolutely can be successful with one. Also, of course, the discussion is more complex with clan LBX vs. (U)AC, as the burst fire takes away most of the huge advantages the IS AC10 has over the IS LB-X AC10.
while I rag on the LBX's all the time, I want to emphasis that they're not useless, but that they're also not good. Just that it's important for people to understand exactly how they work, and not spread disinformation with regards to "Oh, they're better once armor is gone because [magic]Crit Seeking[/magic]" without really understanding what they're saying. They're really not good weapons (IS side in particular, as the AC10 is kind of the red headed stepchild of AC's to begin with and it's still better than the LBX) but you absolutely can be successful with one. Also, of course, the discussion is more complex with clan LBX vs. (U)AC, as the burst fire takes away most of the huge advantages the IS AC10 has over the IS LB-X AC10.
Well while we are on the subject. I think there is also a discussion here about changing the AC/LBX-10's since they are the "worst" of the AC family (Though IMO I think AC2's are MORE broke right now). I have always thought of these two as a bolt action rifle vs a pump shotgun.
AC10=rifle
LBX10=shotgun
So the AC10 should have it's range increased to 500-550M. Not much else changes.
The LBX10 should have it's range reduced to 300M, have it's spread INCREASED a bit. and have the fire rate dropped to 1.8-2 seconds.
So now the LB works as a short range weapon that can be VERY dangerous up close. But does all but nothing at 400M.
Punk Oblivion, on 04 January 2015 - 01:45 AM, said:
Well while we are on the subject. I think there is also a discussion here about changing the AC/LBX-10's since they are the "worst" of the AC family (Though IMO I think AC2's are MORE broke right now). I have always thought of these two as a bolt action rifle vs a pump shotgun.
AC10=rifle
LBX10=shotgun
So the AC10 should have it's range increased to 500-550M. Not much else changes.
The LBX10 should have it's range reduced to 300M, have it's spread INCREASED a bit. and have the fire rate dropped to 1.8-2 seconds.
So now the LB works as a short range weapon that can be VERY dangerous up close. But does all but nothing at 400M.
So...the already sub-par LB should be debuffed twice while the somewhat better AC10 gets a buff? What?
If it was up to me, we'd see the supposedly incoming ammo fix for the clans get implemented IS-side too for LBs. Then there would never be a reason to take an AC10, just AC ammo for your LB. Make them better, given how they're already more expensive, yeah?
So...the already sub-par LB should be debuffed twice while the somewhat better AC10 gets a buff? What?
If it was up to me, we'd see the supposedly incoming ammo fix for the clans get implemented IS-side too for LBs. Then there would never be a reason to take an AC10, just AC ammo for your LB. Make them better, given how they're already more expensive, yeah?
Well my thought process is you now have a weapon that does *10* damage plus additional crit chance to opened internals with almost the same fire rate as an AC5, but at the cost of range and focused damage.
But yes, if I can bring an LBX and have AC10 rounds for the first half of a match, and LBX rounds for the second half of a match, I would be very happy.
4
Tim East, on 02 January 2015 - 09:50 AM, said:
