24 replies to this topic

[Teralitha]

This was a big problem in Mech4 that was never fixed by MS, and maybe there was no way to fix it... I have to wonder, after watching all the videos, and hearing rumors, if this is a problem happening right now in beta, and whether or not they can eliminate it. That leaked video in particular, I noticed shots that were so easy, were missed horribly, and I wondered if they were "just that bad" of players, or if the old NDB was there.

[Eisenhorne]

Well, I've heard that the torso and arms track at different rates, and there are two reticules for them. So, if you aim the arms at something, it takes slightly longer to train the torso guns on the target.

If you fire before the torso gun is aligned, your going to miss your shot.

[Voyager I]

If you're talking about netcode, we don't have anywhere near enough information to begin speculating.

[Tymanthius]

Considering that the programming is likely all done from scratch, I really doubt the same bug is present. Unless it's an issue with the basic algorithm.

Besides, all programs have glitches. We'll live with it.

[matux]

I hear blizzard calls them features not bugs.... lots of features at the moment

[Phasics]

You did not just seriously start a thread about a bug in a game over 10 years old that you think exists based off some leaked footage.

[Voyager I]

What you're talking about isn't a bug. It's a simple result of playing games over the internet. It takes time for information to travel between your computer and the server, and that time can allow for all sorts of problems to spring up for users if it's left completely unaddressed.

Let's suppose you're shooting at a moving target.


First, where you see him on your screen isn't where the server thinks he is at the instant you pull the trigger; it's where the server thought he was when when it sent the information to your computer, which is actually delayed a fraction of a second by your latency. Similarly, when you shoot on your end, the server doesn't get that information instantaneously. It doesn't know you've fired until the command is relayed back to it, taking up more time. When it gets there, your target has had even more time to move away from the position you were aiming at (which, remember, is based on information that was already a little bit out of date). All these trips can add up, and in a fast-moving game or over a bad connection, what looks like a clear hit on your screen might end up missing completely because everyone's information isn't equally up-to-date.

There are a few solutions to this, but they all involve some degree of compromise...and, of course, some games just have their hit detection coded terribly.

Edited by Voyager I, 27 June 2012 - 08:24 PM.

[Tetatae Squawkins]

I didn't realize a single line of code in this game came from MW 4.

Edited by crabcakes66, 27 June 2012 - 08:19 PM.

[Warfeli]

crabcakes66, on 27 June 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

I didn't realize a single line of code in this game came from MW 4.

Ahahaha.

[Teralitha]

crabcakes66, on 27 June 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

I didn't realize a single line of code in this game came from MW 4.

It doesnt have to. Latency and hit detection exists in every online pvp game. But in this "type" of game, 1 single target will have multiple hit boxes. And those hitboxes, may have very very tiny, spaces between them, and your weapons fire... could pass between the hitboxes, and "miss". but this can be fixed. Where in many other pvp games, hitting an arm or leg, doesnt matter. Where, here, it does. So the netcode will be complex, and possibly have many holes in it.

@Voyager I - From what your saying, it sounds like the hit detection coding for MWO, might need alot of work.

Inb4 - beta is gonna last a looooong time... a really... really long time...

Edited by Teralitha, 27 June 2012 - 09:01 PM.

[Phasics]

Teralitha, on 27 June 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

It doesnt have to. Latency and hit detection exists in every online pvp game.

@Voyager I - From what your saying, it sounds like the hit detection coding for MWO, might need alot of work.

Inb4 - beta is gonna last a looooong time... a really... really long time...

Coding can't overcome the physical limitations of latency, the best you can get is somewhere between a predictive algorithm and waiting for the data to arrive.

Unless of course you go with The Original Planetside solution of client side hit detection, which has its own bag of problems

[Voyager I]

Phasics, on 27 June 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

Unless of course you go with The Original Planetside solution of client side hit detection, which has its own bag of problems

I can only imagine the field day the hackers must have had with that.

[Teralitha]

Phasics, on 27 June 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

Coding can't overcome the physical limitations of latency, the best you can get is somewhere between a predictive algorithm and waiting for the data to arrive.

Unless of course you go with The Original Planetside solution of client side hit detection, which has its own bag of problems

I wonder what LOL uses... client or server hit detection.. to my knowledge LOL has never been hacked, so it must be server side, but neither has it ever suffered from NDB. But its also only 1 hitbox, not several...

Voyager I, on 27 June 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

I can only imagine the field day the hackers must have had with that.

It actually wasnt a problem. I cant recall ever seeing a hack, or even hear/read about one, when I played it... The netcode musta been impossible to crack.

Edited by Teralitha, 27 June 2012 - 09:14 PM.

[Voyager I]

You can't really hack LoL like that. Autoattacks don't miss to begin with, and collision detection for skillshots would be handled by the server's information. You could create an aimbot that automatically predicted skillshot trajectories for you, but it would be useless because nobody walks in straight lines after level 3 and there's nothing you can do about legitimately unpredictable movement.

Maphacks (which may be a problem for MWO) can be prevented simply by withholding information from the client until he needs to know it. If he can't see someone, just don't give him their position information. There's nothing he can do to force his client into telling him something it doesn't know.


As far as latency issues, you can thank those for all those "I TOTALLY DODGED THAT HOOK!" moments. You got out of the way on your screen, but the server still sees you standing in front of the hand.

Edited by Voyager I, 27 June 2012 - 09:22 PM.

[Phasics]

Voyager I, on 27 June 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

I can only imagine the field day the hackers must have had with that.

Lambs, and they were screaming
They were slaughtering the spring lambs ?


And they were screaming
You still wake up sometimes, don't you? You wake up in the dark and hear the screaming of the Planetside lambs.
YES

[Calisrue]

OMG troll thread. like there is really gonna be an issue with spaces between hitboxes when you're implementing streaming lasers. AND it in CLOSED BETA. WHO CARES IF THERE ARE LEAKS ITS ALL BETA. ONLY people who should be reporting bugs are under NDA and its impossible to have an accurate picture of whats going on unless you're a programmer yourself. It will all be made sensibile eventually

[Teralitha]

Calisrue, on 27 June 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

OMG troll thread. like there is really gonna be an issue with spaces between hitboxes when you're implementing streaming lasers. AND it in CLOSED BETA. WHO CARES IF THERE ARE LEAKS ITS ALL BETA. ONLY people who should be reporting bugs are under NDA and its impossible to have an accurate picture of whats going on unless you're a programmer yourself. It will all be made sensibile eventually

I dont know whether to laugh at your post... or laugh at you

[xenoglyph]

I would like more ridiculous speculation by uninformed fools if possible, thx.

Edited by xenoglyph, 27 June 2012 - 09:34 PM.

[Voyager I]

So I'm guessing you guys don't know what "latency" is, do you?

Admittedly, "no damage bug from MW4" isn't the best way to describe it, but it's very much a real concern and will continue to be until transmitting data no longer takes time.

[Phasics]

Voyager I, on 27 June 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

So I'm guessing you guys don't know what "latency" is, do you?

Admittedly, "no damage bug from MW4" isn't the best way to describe it, but it's very much a real concern and will continue to be until transmitting data no longer takes time.

Where for art thou Quantum entanglement ?