25 replies to this topic

[focuspark]

Let's start by saying that Community Warfare [CW] isn't what I expected. It's not bad it just isn't great and I feel it completely lacks any compelling reason to participate. Here are a few suggestions from a wanna be change designer with nothing on the table to lose.

First CW should be all that MWO offers. Having separate match vs CW queues means CW, which needs participation to be successful, is starved for players. Second CW needs to be more than just Invasion. Having a single game more is boring. Finally CW needs to offer something compelling to fight for; otherwise, why bother?

So what to do? Here goes <dons flame retardant suit>.

Players should have the option of signing up with a great house, a clan, or not. Players who have signed up, will drop for their patron with a bonus to loyalty points [LP] gained. Players who have not, will be deemed mercs or dagger stars depending on the Mech(s) they're dropping with. Dropping teams should be segmented into two queues: lance queue (teams of 1-4) and company (teams of 5-12).

The Match Maker should then create matches like it does today but assign factions to each side, using mercs and dagger stars to fill in team gaps. All game modes should be available with Invasion reserved for larger teams and only after enough boarder skirmish victories by the attacking faction. Basically back story the old game modes as border skirmishes with victories accruing points. When a side scores enough points the invasion game mode kicks in. Enough invasion victories and a star system switches ownership.

OK so the above kinda solves my first two issues, what about the third issue regarding incentives? CW grants LP which are a kind of faction specific currency. Faction assigned players should receive more LP than mercs or dagger stars. At the same time mercs and dagger stars sound receive more C-Bills for their efforts. LP should then be used to purchase faction specific mechs and equipment. Maybe Davion sells a Centurion CN9-A with an additional quirk worth +10% bonus to AC/10 cool down for the C-Bill cost of a CN9-A plus an equal amount of Davion LP. Marik could sell lasers which run cooler and cost extra Marik LP, etc. Even faction ammo could be available - why not?

Additionally player units should get ranked on a kind of leader board. Showing the best performers of the past 1-3 months. Stats like total wins, percent of wins, wins per game mode, and average kills per match.

Finally for the truly awesome: Individual record holders for most kills in a match, most damage done in a match, most damage taken without dying in a match, etc. Even per chassis stats would be great.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

Something needs to happen. I spent a total of 30 min in CW today.... NOT ONE MATCH DID I GET. Yes I picked a planet with defenders and attackers, there is only 3 that fit that in the first place.

[Davers]

The idea that 'every match will contribute to CW' has been dead a long time.

As for other game modes for CW? I am sure they will be coming. Eventually.

[focuspark]

Davers, on 28 December 2014 - 02:33 PM, said:

The idea that 'every match will contribute to CW' has been dead a long time.

As for other game modes for CW? I am sure they will be coming. Eventually.

Why is the concept that every match will contribute to CW dead? Who says so and why? I don't believe it.

[Vassago Rain]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 28 December 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

Something needs to happen. I spent a total of 30 min in CW today.... NOT ONE MATCH DID I GET. Yes I picked a planet with defenders and attackers, there is only 3 that fit that in the first place.

I've played 8 matches of CW since they released the mode.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I've played at least ~44 matches in CW so far, it can be a wait some days depending on the time of day a player tries to attack or defend and I've likely dropped ~97% against Clans.

We certainly need more main objectives and maps for sure. Modifying how we drop into a match is certainly worth exploring.

I dunno about using LP as another currency, I'd need to think about that more, and I don't feel that leader boards would be a good thing for CW's format.

[focuspark]

Praetor Knight, on 28 December 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

We certainly need more main objectives and maps for sure. Modifying how we drop into a match is certainly worth exploring.

I dunno about using LP as another currency, I'd need to think about that more, and I don't feel that leader boards would be a good thing for CW's format.

Sure, leader boards were just something to interest the epeen crowd. Personally wouldn't even look at them.

I do think looking at how drops are assembled and such is important if CW is to thrive. Right now it's a wasteland for entire geographies (real and in-game).

As for LP being another currency... we need a "reason" to fight and I cannot think of a better on other than "it is fun". If it's just "fun" then why even involve the star map and backstory?

[Davegt27]

I like the OP ideas

But there is still the underlying problem some call it balance some call it no child left behind

Basically everyone likes to win and they hate to lose but in a game like this you have to have both

I would like to hear what the lore Battletech folks have to say

How did the Battle Tech TT handle balance?

I know other TT (book case) games for example Tactical Air War where you flew F4 phantoms against Mig 21's

Eventually everyone ended up flying F15's (since it could accelerate while climbing) against each other

So Battle Tech guys how does a campaign on TT work out with the overpowered Clan tech?

[SnowFox]

The only way you could effectively go against the clans was numbers game. The IS could throw more mechs at them as the board game was based on a battle value system. Clan mechs being more expensive in the BV then your IS mech and even then you often couldn't if the clans played IS tactics "IE threw zelbrigen out the window". Such games like Invasion 3042 taught that clan weapons superiority was the way to go and clans seemed to more often then not win. In the board game even the developers admitted that the Clan LPL was a huge mistake and if you fast forward it into the dark age you notice that the weapons gap more or less disappears with the advent of IS lvl 3 weapons and mixed tech.

Moral of story is that balance with Clan stuff at this time period is HARD if not almost impossible to do that is relevant and fun to the players.

[operatorZ]

After having NOT evaluated whether this proposed change threatens any of my previous positions taken in this forum on CW...on first read...I like it...

DISCLAIMER: I do drop solo in CW, have had 20-30 matches, not waiting longer than 10 minutes for any one of them, and winning roughly 40-50%, although I don't really keep track. I find this BETA CW...to be....a good start

[OznerpaG]

it'd be nice if there was a group queue and a PUG queue in CW - if a CW battle was all PUGs it'd be a fun sloppy affair since it'd be near impossible for unit to sync-drop in together and organize the battle to their advantage

[focuspark]

operatorZ, on 29 December 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

DISCLAIMER: I do drop solo in CW, have had 20-30 matches, not waiting longer than 10 minutes for any one of them, and winning roughly 40-50%, although I don't really keep track. I find this BETA CW...to be....a good start

Curiosity how many of those matches are Clans vs IS?

[operatorZ]

focuspark, on 29 December 2014 - 05:39 PM, said:

Curiosity how many of those matches are Clans vs IS?

All of them, actually.

[focuspark]

operatorZ, on 29 December 2014 - 08:32 PM, said:

All of them, actually.

That's what I assumed. It seems as if PGI feels there should only be Clan vs IS Invasions. There's more to BTech and MechWarrior than Clan vs IS. I'd really love to see IS vs IS more often and not always in drop ship mode. CW is a means to enabling this, adding backstory, and giving us a reason to fight.

So far it's delivering none of this. :-(

[operatorZ]

focuspark, on 29 December 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

That's what I assumed. It seems as if PGI feels there should only be Clan vs IS Invasions. There's more to BTech and MechWarrior than Clan vs IS. I'd really love to see IS vs IS more often and not always in drop ship mode. CW is a means to enabling this, adding backstory, and giving us a reason to fight.

So far it's delivering none of this. :-(

just remember its BETA...it could change and hopefully will, +1

[focuspark]

operatorZ, on 30 December 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

just remember its BETA...it could change and hopefully will, +1

I've been here since just after closed beta and things don't really change dramatically. ECM is still crap with bandaids for example despite reams of forums complaints about it.

Truth is, we need PGI to think big here and actually listen to feedback. My concern is that they don't actually read their own forums and we're better off communicating via Reddit or Twitter with them.

[operatorZ]

focuspark, on 30 December 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

I've been here since just after closed beta and things don't really change dramatically. ECM is still crap with bandaids for example despite reams of forums complaints about it.

Truth is, we need PGI to think big here and actually listen to feedback. My concern is that they don't actually read their own forums and we're better off communicating via Reddit or Twitter with them.

I haven't been here long but I have seen great advancement in this game singe IGP left...so maybe comparing pre IGP with post IGP isnt fair. I have been involved in WOT and WOWarplanes and PGI is listening...compared to these other games

[Almond Brown]

focuspark, on 30 December 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

I've been here since just after closed beta and things don't really change dramatically. ECM is still crap with bandaids for example despite reams of forums complaints about it.

Truth is, we need PGI to think big here and actually listen to feedback. My concern is that they don't actually read their own forums and we're better off communicating via Reddit or Twitter with them.

Not a personal attack at all, but, that is the kind of "attitude" we need to shed here on the Forums. Forget the past. It is in the past. Let's keep feeding in data (playing) and general feedback and see what transpires.

CW is not even fully 3 weeks old. The Dev Team are on Christmas Holiday ffs, one they rightfully deserve too imho.

If it was all done by Magic, fine, we could have it all tomorrow. Sadly, there is no magic. There is just coding, testing, more coding etc. etc. It takes TIME. (coding is sorta magic though)

Sure, we are 3 years in now. Guess what? If this were not a F2P game model, your CD in a Box would just be arriving in stores. If you were one of the lucky few, you may have gotten a BETA key 3-4 months ago to try MWO. But it is a F2P model and we got let in the basement.

So let's focus our efforts where they may do the most good. Helping PGI and ANY new players we meet in the game, instead of tearing some poor Dev or Newb a new one because they are "coding too slow", or driving a Trail, that they had no choice but to take, in a effort to fulfill the needs for participation in CW.

I thought MWO would produce a more mature audience/community. At times I have been sadly disappointed. (Yes, I may have even contributed a smidge to that "tood" as well) and will try harder in the future to keep it in check.

Edited by Almond Brown, 30 December 2014 - 11:36 AM.

[ztac]

Hopefully they will have a big re-working. It would be good to just see attacking on attackable planets and defending for the other side.

It would be good to see factions only being able to use their faction's mechs' and faction alliances/enemies.

It would be good for the balancing to be addressed (quirks just make some IS mechs really OP , especially on a certain map!).

Always you see the 'clans are OP' mantra , but never a why. Oh it's because everyone uses mech X, Y ,Z ..... people forget that most clanners only have a very limited choice of mech and some are by any standard not worth the space they taking in a mech bay!

So where are IS OP? (just before anyone says I don't back it up). Try hit box sizes , lights speed , range of certain weapons and the ability to negate the heat generated! Yes you did read correctly RANGE!. Some IS weapons outrange clan weapons by 200 mtrs. IS LRM have a much better firing pattern too which is harder to counter. Also consider that some IS setups are far easier to make then their clan counterparts and come in at less drop weight so you could make more! Lets face it IS have a great range of mechs right now compared to the clans.

Lastly probably not got all the points down due to a mental condition I have (I forget things before I have a chance to type or write them down).

Edited by ztac, 30 December 2014 - 11:40 AM.

[64K RAM SYSTEM]

In the first week CW was great. I saw alot of co-operation and friendly chat messages on the matches. Fun games and even some role playing started to emerge. Then after a week or so the atmosphere started to change with more competitive players emerging. The games are now quite monotonous and serious with people using optimal attack paths and tactics to win. Ofcourese this is just an early Beta version of CW so it will be interesting to see how it evolves in the future.

With the introduction of CW the game has really highlighted for me the difference between competitive and casual players. Casual players just play the game to have fun and winning the game is an extra bonus. Competitive players play the game to WIN and having fun is a somewhat more secondary priority.

Not trying to judge or offend competitive players just pointing out that I now understand why casual and competitive players do not mix so well.

The current trend seems to be really driving CW to be a competitive player only area leaving the public matches the only comfortable place for a casual player. It is a pity since I really like the updating galactic map with planets changing and having the ability to play for a house. Would be great if they could implement the galactic map and factions to the current public matches somehow...