1123 replies to this topic

[Bellum Dominum]

Aim for their PPC torso? It's pretty easy to hit.

[Ultimax]

Ghost Badger, on 02 January 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

Still, the main argument of this thread isn't that the 9S is too OP compared to Clans...it's a complaint that it's a front-runner among IS mechs and making for incredibly stale play, because it can play at clan ranges more effectively than other IS mechs...and is a bit of a crutch in that regard.

Except it isn't.

It's a front runner for one specific phase (long range trading on Boreal/Sulphurus) of one specific game mode (CW).


Outside of that specialized gameplay, it's a good mech but hardly "dominating the meta".


Really that's just hyperbole, do you see nothing but 9S Thunderbolts all day in the queues?


No, and that's because gameplay right now tends to get close and personal very fast and a slow turret mech with awful torso pitch is great for sniping but very vulnerable when caught at close ranges.

It can't jump, it's relatively slow, it has bad pitch and awful geometry.


It has weaknesses and it has strengths.



Honestly for the way the game is now, I'd rather be in the 5SS than the 9S for Solo/Team queue drops.


And if you want even longer range, there is a Thunderbolt that isn't the 9S that can tap you out to 900m optimal range with ER LLAS.


You likely haven't seen it built like that, probably because it hasn't crossed most peoples minds.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 02 January 2015 - 12:53 PM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Ultimatum X, on 02 January 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:

Except it isn't.

It's a front runner for one specific phase (long range trading on Boreal/Sulphurus) of one specific game mode (CW).


Outside of that specialized gameplay, it's a good mech but hardly "dominating the meta".


Really that's just hyperbole, do you see nothing but 9S Thunderbolts all day in the queues?


No, and that's because gameplay right now tends to get close and personal very fast and a slow turret mech with awful torso pitch is great for sniping but very vulnerable when caught at close ranges.

It can't jump, it's relatively slow, it has bad pitch and awful geometry.


It has weaknesses and it has strengths.

Yeah, and it's CW that I'm caring about here. I'm not calling it the end all be all in pubs. In fact I argued against it earlier in this thread and explained why.

They tailor-quirked a single chassis to be great at the long-range pokefest CW can engender. I think that's out of line, and would like to see it toned down a bit so that other forms of gameplay in other chassis are more viable, or at least just AS viable.

Exploiting the 9S quirks, en masse as a team, is incredibly effective right now. And boring as hell.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 02 January 2015 - 12:53 PM.

[MarineTech]

MOAR Buttah!!!

[Bishop Steiner]

Death Drow, on 02 January 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

Aim for their PPC torso? It's pretty easy to hit.

not when all but the barrels are hidden behind terrain. And when it's not defilade sniping you tend to be getting shot by 4-8 of them..... so no dice.

Thanks for playing though.

[Ultimax]

Ghost Badger, on 02 January 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:

Yeah, and it's CW that I'm caring about here. I'm not calling it the end all be all in pubs. In fact I argued against it earlier in this thread and explained why.

They tailor-quirked a single chassis to be great at the long-range pokefest CW can engender.

That's really only one phase of a CW match, you need to have some fast mechs and some close range brawlers.



The main reason you are seeing so many 9S is because

1) It is good at that one specialist phase.
2) It's 65tons which makes it ideal for a 240 deck and 240 drop decks penalizes players taking heavier mechs - I have no sympathy for anyone on this part because these forums have been on a witch hunt against Assault mechs for months on end. I wish it wasn't the case, but these forums are full of wet diaper man babies.


There are other mechs that are also good at the long range game, but many of them are Assaults or create under tonned decks, etc.

[EvilCow]

Don't tell anybody but the 9S is actually better with 2 ERPPC plus a bunch of lasers.

[AlmightyAeng]

Ultimatum X, on 02 January 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

That's really only one phase of a CW match, you need to have some fast mechs and some close range brawlers.



The main reason you are seeing so many 9S is because

1) It is good at that one specialist phase.
2) It's 65tons which makes it ideal for a 240 deck and 240 drop decks penalizes players taking heavier mechs - I have no sympathy for anyone on this part because these forums have been on a witch hunt against Assault mechs for months on end. I wish it wasn't the case, but these forums are full of wet diaper man babies.


There are other mechs that are also good at the long range game, but many of them are Assaults or create under tonned decks, etc.

Lol, penalizes players taking heavier mechs. Tell that to my Crab/Muromets deck that scored me over a million c-bills in one match yesterday. Penalizes them indeed.

[Bishop Steiner]

EvilCow, on 02 January 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

Don't tell anybody but the 9S is actually better with 2 ERPPC plus a bunch of lasers.

in Public, certainly.

In coordinated CW drops, hard to beat a wall of 24 erppcs, followed by 12 more .5 seconds later..... rinse wash and repeat every 2.8 seconds or so.

[Navid A1]

Ultimatum X, on 02 January 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

Spoiler

9S (65T)

Fires 3x ER PPCs

Ghost heat total = 63.9
- 50% = 31.95 heat

Result = 31.95 heat for 30 damage
Cost = 21 Tons of weapons (& 8 tons of extra heatsinks)

9S has 18 DHS and dissipates at 3.59 H/S with a heat cap of 73.4

STD 260 Engine for 71 KPH


Hellbringer (65T)

Fires 2x CERPPCs

Total Heat = 30

Result = 30 heat for 30 damage
Cost = 14 Tons of weapons (& space for 14 T of extra DHS)

Has 24 DHS (and ECM) and dissipates 4.55 H/S with a heat cap of 83.5

Clan XL 325 for 89 kph



The 9S

• has better pinpoint
  
• has slightly better velocity
  
• has higher RoF for more DPS

The HBR

• has better cooling
  
• is significantly faster (+18kph, or roughly 25% faster)
  
• is much more maneuverable with better agility, torso twist speeds, etc
  
• has ECM
  
• has a full shield side
  
• has a higher heat cap for more alphas before shutting down

These two mechs & builds are roughly comparable & the HBR has more options to add things like a targeting computer or back up weapons for close range.

The 9S has a few edges over the HBR here, but the HBR has several more over the 9S.

Again, that's the kind of logic PGI uses. And that is why we are having this discussion.

Btw...clan ERPPCs do 10 pinpoint damage the remaining 5 is splash (or 2.5 if you hit an arm)
so TDR can do 30 damage pinpoint for ~30 heat, HBR can do 20 for 30 heat and maybe 4xERML spread for 24 more heat.
Volume of delivered fire is vastly in favor if TDR.

ZenFool, on 02 January 2015 - 12:04 PM, said:

Spoiler

So... The 9s has doomed the game with its super rush of "one mech meta Armageddon" and anyone who doesn't believe this is obviously uninformed/bad player/not very bright...

K. There are a couple of things that need to be pointed out over and over again until the nerfers realize what we are saying.

1. The 3 erppc 9s is ONLY good at sniping, and then only if it has plenty of time to cool off after every other volley. It can NOT brawl. It melts compared to many other builds.

2. There is no way to run four of them in a CW drop deck, so whats with the idea that its ruining the game with its "super meta Armageddon one mech to rule them all blah blah blah insert random justification here"?

3. I disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that meta is being reinforced because of this one build. I've used more heat efficient brawlers and have seen more than at any other point in the game's history. Builds that are not viable in regular matches become viable(or at least situationally useful) in CW.

4. I wonder if we would be having this conversation if the quirks were on a light mech that can only carry one or an assault mech that has no mobility. As it is, 65 tons is a good filler for a drop deck with enough firepower and mobility to make this a decent(not op...) mech for the first time in its MWO life.

Just because something is widely used doesn't mean you should whackamole it back into oblivion....Please reserve your hate for any number of actual issues this game has.

1- yes you can. By the time you get there they are all cored. A brawler is called a brawler because it can ONLY do real damage up close and receive the punishment. 9S has just ONE weapon system which is effective at all ranges all situations. (Do you know the reason behind gauss charge?)

2- I would call 3 to be enough armageddon.

3 - That is your choice... which is a decent one.!

4- So you say in #3 that meta is not forcing you to use a particular build and you go on and say its a decent mech EXACTLY because of that one single build?

Edited by Navid A1, 02 January 2015 - 01:17 PM.

[MechWarrior9376871]

OMFG, it sounds like you whiney ******* are getting steam rolled by these Tbolts. LOLOLOL


Tell you what. I will bet $5 I can kill your Thundergod with my lowly Timberwolf C.....
Or if you feel the Timber is a bit OP I can use my Direwhale...If that still scares you I will happily school you with a Stormcrow...

Edited by 911 Inside Job, 02 January 2015 - 01:23 PM.

[KharnZor]

The quirks need some tuning. Notice how i said tuning and not nerfing?
All the IS mechs need some more tuning passes on their quirks.

[mogs01gt]

This whole thread seems like the exact same debate as those IS players getting frustrated with facing nothing but TBRs and Crows..

[MarineTech]

[Augustus Martelus II]

Well i m not telling for a Nerf...but i feel that the Thunderbolt took the role of the Awesome...

The t-bolt energy points are higher than the awesome wich also give him an advantage vs the awesome.

The Awesome should be the PPC master.

[Ultimax]

Navid A1, on 02 January 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

Again, that's the kind of logic PGI uses. And that is why we are having this discussion.

Btw...clan ERPPCs do 10 pinpoint damage the remaining 5 is splash (or 2.5 if you hit an arm)
so TDR can do 30 damage pinpoint for ~30 heat, HBR can do 20 for 30 heat and maybe 4xERML spread for 24 more heat.
Volume of delivered fire is vastly in favor if TDR.

You missed the parts where the HBR has better cooling, ECM and is 25% faster, with better torso twist speed and better profile/geometry.


Those are fair trade offs.




Want to move up to a 280 engine for more speed? You lose at least 2 DHS dropping down to 16, reducing your heat cap and reducing your dissipation.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 02 January 2015 - 01:27 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Ripnfly, on 02 January 2015 - 05:56 AM, said:

Varience in builds and styles is what keeps this game fun.

MECH WARRIOR ERPPCS BATTLES is really just not fun.

I guess when the clans take off their erppc's and gauss so will the IS

[HARDKOR]

CW felt unbalanced till we got the 9S, now we have a chance.

ggclose

[Ngamok]

Flapdrol, on 02 January 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

Leveled that thunderbolt with 2 erppc's, was wondering why it refused to warm up

Those quirks is a bigger difference than standard and double heatsinks.

I run my 9S with 3x ER PPCs. Unless it's a heat sink issue, I took mine into Forest Colony and only fired 2 at a time instead of all 3, and I overheat on the 7th volley. There is no way 2 only refuse to heat up.

[Fate 6]

911 Inside Job, on 02 January 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

OMFG, it sounds like you whiney ******* are getting steam rolled by these Tbolts. LOLOLOL


Tell you what. I will bet $5 I can kill your Thundergod with my lowly Timberwolf C.....
Or if you feel the Timber is a bit OP I can use my Direwhale...If that still scares you I will happily school you with a Stormcrow...

"Thunderbolt isn't OP I can beat it with the 3 best Clan mechs in the game" ~logic, 2015

I would also bet a good TDR-9S pilot would outplay you because of the high mounted weapons.

We're talking about TDR in relation to other IS mechs here, you can't choose between TDR and a Clan mech in CW. TDR is the best PPC mech IS has right now, and that shoudn't be the case when there are mechs designed to carry PPCs that are now worse (Awesome, Blackjack, K2).