1123 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

verybad, on 02 January 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

Can't argue that. The Awesome should be THE goto mech for hot PPC action.

and the K2 should be it's little friend.

[Kraven Kor]

EvilCow, on 02 January 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

Threads like this are UNEXPECTED effect of this great quirks idea...

I think the *idea* is sound.

The implementation needs work.

On several mechs, the quirks are just too much, while on others mostly pointless. I think they can tweak it up / down until they have it right, and would prefer they do so sooner rather than later

[Bishop Steiner]

EvilCow, on 02 January 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

Threads like this are UNEXPECTED effect of this great quirks idea...

do I sniff a hint of irony here?

[lsp]

Ghost Badger, on 02 January 2015 - 11:03 AM, said:

Why, yes, you've confirmed that you have bad luck in both of those Thunderbolts. And since the stats page ONLY captures public queue, here is opposed anecdotal evidence. Both samples are invalid in a balance discussion.

Nice stats.

[Brody319]

I think they should replace the ERPPC quirks with PPC quirks (minimum range) OR just replace them with energy quirks in general and not favoring PPCs.

[Kensaisama]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

do I sniff a hint of irony here?

It certainly smells irony..... bwhahahaha

[Roadkill]

verybad, on 02 January 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

Can't argue that. The Awesome should be THE goto mech for hot PPC action.

The Warhawk Prime disagrees with your assessment.

Awesome for the Inner Sphere. Warhawk Prime for the Clans.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 02 January 2015 - 11:13 AM, said:

HAH. You just want the Vindicator to become the premier CW defensive mech.

Already is. The bads just haven't realized it yet.

Brody319, on 02 January 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

I think they should replace the ERPPC quirks with PPC quirks (minimum range) OR just replace them with energy quirks in general and not favoring PPCs.

would still need to be reduced numbers, or you would still just boat ER PPC

[AlmightyAeng]

lsp, on 02 January 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

Nice stats.

Thanks, lol. The point is that you can't use "I do well!" or "I do badly!" in this mech or that mech to look at balance. Compare hitboxes. Weapon stats like range and heat...and now...quirks. You can look at the population of a build as a sidenote, but it's not the end all be all of the "OP litmus test."

Based on the stats of the ERPPC and the quirks the Thunderbolt has and the heat it generates compared to every other mech, and partially informed by the presence and relative domination of 12-man Thud drops by some higher-tier comp teams, I vote it's too powerful.

Don't nerf it into the ground, but bring those %'s down a bit.

Having it be better than the awesome and LAUGHABLY better than the K2 makes me sad...but right now all I have the willpower to argue for is a 9S quirk reduction, rather than "what makes sense for lore."

[Bishop Steiner]

Roadkill, on 02 January 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

The Warhawk Prime disagrees with your assessment.

Awesome for the Inner Sphere. Warhawk Prime for the Clans.

just imagine if the arm actuators let you do something useful...like raise the arm...how good the warhawk could be.

And it would have the tradeoff of further exposing the ST to damage.... but let you clear terrain.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Brody319, on 02 January 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

I think they should replace the ERPPC quirks with PPC quirks (minimum range) OR just replace them with energy quirks in general and not favoring PPCs.

No, the TDR-9S comes with an ERPPC in the right arm, not a PPC.

The TDR-9S should get a massive ERPPC quirk... Restricted to the right arm, where an ERPPC resides. The flamer mounts in the RT should not be given ERPPC quirks.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 02 January 2015 - 11:23 AM.

[YueFei]

Ghost Badger, on 02 January 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

The problem is that in PGI the rock weights 30 pounds and is being swung at the end of a rope, the scissors are blunt and the paper is tissue.

You have the appearance of three viable options...but they aren't balanced that way. So, the people who prosper will use the rock to the best of their ability, a few will sharpen the scissors, and everyone will laugh at the people who play paper.

Well, that's a problem with game design, but my point about RPS is that it is possible to create balance since other games have done it before. I was refuting Glory's assertion that games must always feature a singular "best".

You know I'm just gonna drop this link about game balance here:
http://wiki.teamliqu...t2/Game_Balance

The key point from that article:

Quote

Implications of Imbalance

In competitive gaming, overpowered strategies quickly become prevalent once discovered. Although the game may still be fair, it would become predictable and monotonous. This may leave a portion of the game content unplayed and therefore a waste of time for the players and developers as well.

Edited by YueFei, 02 January 2015 - 11:23 AM.

[verybad]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 11:15 AM, said:

Also ironic, is that another PPC Mech in the Thuds same weight bracket, the K2, built around a pair of PPCs, is inferior at the Lightning game than one that had an ER PPC slapped on as part of a field refit kit.

Very true. The K2 was one of the best 3025 mechs around, really a great unit (and I personally was the first to brink it into Mechwarrior (MW4 MekTek). Absolutly loved that mech both in gameplay and on the TT battletech.

[Bishop Steiner]

Prosperity Park, on 02 January 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

No, the TDR-9S comes with an ERPPC in the right arm, not a PPC.

The TDR-9S should get a massive ERPPC quirk... Restricted to the right arm, where an ERPPC resides. The flamer mounts in the RT should not be given ERPPC quirks.

and balance that with solid Mlaser and SRM quirks in the LT. Encourage people to play it as the CQB tank it was designed to be. though I have no issue with thing sliek the mediums being a generic mlaser quirk that covered mpl, too.

[Navid A1]

lsp, on 02 January 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

The thunderbolt is sooo goood, yeah right. Soo good at getting it's torso's blown off because it has terrible hitboxes. The only time I do good in one is when someone ignores me, which in that case it's your fault.

Spoiler

I didn't know we should nerf novas and summoners.... or buff the stormcrows...

99% PUG matches.

That is called individual performance... has nothing to do with balance.

Edited by Navid A1, 16 February 2015 - 03:47 AM.

[Conreg]

The high mount ppc is why it's great. The quirks make it possible. As I've said, I run 2 Erppc and 3 mlas. A subtle nerf wouldn't affect me.

I promise you. The whine will not stop. Players that cannot counter exceptional long range sniping will suffer on.

Seems to me, clans are upset that they can't stand still in the open and laze freely anymore.

Learn to dodge the easiest to dodge long range weapon in the game.

The same people complaining would have trouble against any competitive sniping teams. It's called focus fire. If you are outnumbered.... stop popping up! Make us move in or move in on us.

Need to convert my coolant pods to work with enemy tears.

[Bishop Steiner]

Conreg, on 02 January 2015 - 11:32 AM, said:

The high mount ppc is why it's great. The quirks make it possible. As I've said, I run 2 Erppc and 3 mlas. A subtle nerf wouldn't affect me.

I promise you. The whine will not stop. Players that cannot counter exceptional long range sniping will suffer on.

Seems to me, clans are upset that they can't stand still in the open and laze freely anymore.

Learn to dodge the easiest to dodge long range weapon in the game.

The same people complaining would have trouble against any competitive sniping teams. It's called focus fire. If you are outnumbered.... stop popping up! Make us move in or move in on us.

Need to convert my coolant pods to work with enemy tears.

seems to me the whole debate of this topic has gone over your head, then.

Note.... I'm not a clanner.

[lsp]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:

seems to me the whole debate of this topic has gone over your head, then.

Note.... I'm not a clanner.

You have a clan account, someone who's not a clanner is me. Someone who doesn't own a single clan mech and doesn't have a secret account that he plays clans on.

[AlmightyAeng]

lsp, on 02 January 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

You have a clan account, someone who's not a clanner is me. Someone who doesn't own a single clan mech and doesn't have a secret account that he plays clans on.

Oh ffs.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

lsp, on 02 January 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

You have a clan account, someone who's not a clanner is me. Someone who doesn't own a single clan mech and doesn't have a secret account that he plays clans on.

Doesn't that make you less qualified to argue the balance between the two......