1123 replies to this topic

[Kuritaclan]

Prosperity Park, on 02 January 2015 - 10:35 AM, said:

The reason that we're having Thunderbolt problems is NOT that they have massive ERPPC quirks, but rather because PGI assigns quirks to the entire Mech instead of their compartments.

By giving Thunderbolts the quirks in every component, instead of just their right arm, they created a situation where people are removing the Flamers from their Right Torso and replacing them with ERPPCs.

This critical flaw in the Quirk System is why we are having problems with "overly-quirked" Mechs. It's not the massive ERPPC quirks' fault; it's the fact that components without ERPPCs are getting ERPPC quirks.


*discuss

no - since you will see nerf hammer crys anyway until they change high mounted slot quirks to uslessness like small laser mg and make "down mounted" the interresting ones. But this will kind of hurt many IS Mechs, and the discussion will start again, what is fair and what not and where to put which quirk. Don't know. It would be a much workaround to fit into the game programming wise and then it isn't sure that it hit the nail of balance.

[AlmightyAeng]

Degalus, on 02 January 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

Come on guys. I want some Feedback for my wall of text. ^^

Ok. Here.

Instead of adding chassis restrictions into the one mode that was build around the concept of NOT having them, how about we take the one hideously overquirked chassis variant down a peg so that it's no longer an uber mech (for the mode that places you at long range and forces you to come from 1 of 3 easily pre-determined directions, yay map design) that calls out to people so strongly that they take 12 of them at a time and giggle at their easy wins?

So, I'm 100% against your idea of chassis restriction. I like the freedom we currently have. There's my response.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 02 January 2015 - 10:47 AM.

[MarineTech]

NERF IT ALL!!!!

Edited by MarineTech, 02 January 2015 - 10:48 AM.

[Roadkill]

Ripnfly, on 02 January 2015 - 05:52 AM, said:

<nonsense>

No.

[Kuritaclan]

Ghost Badger, on 02 January 2015 - 10:42 AM, said:

That's so unnecessarily complicated...are you sure you aren't a Paul alt?

Yeah complicate but not a thing that isn't hard to implement. Since those would be general quirks, rather than component specific.

And yeah i'm sure i'm me, not a "Paul alt". Whatever this is (send me a message to enilight me xD)

[Valdherre Tor]

The Thunderbolt wouldn’t even be on peoples radar if PGI would just release the Urbie.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

agree with the top half.

That said, people say "nerf" like it's a bad thing, because of Paul's insane yoyo nerf history. Thing is, if the majority of the options are pretty good where they are at, and a few are vastly superior, you don't buff the rest of the options up, you flatten the curve by bringing the outliers down the a similar level as the average.

The biggest advantage the TDR has over the AWS for PPCs its high-mounted hardpoints and better hitboxes. If you bring the TDR's numbers down to the Awesome's level, it would still be the superior PPC carrier.

[lsp]

Navid A1, on 02 January 2015 - 10:30 AM, said:

I didn't know timber side torsos could not be taken out... maybe i am mistaken but i'm sure i saw timbers loosing a torso.... from a million miles away.

btw.. your arms are healthy... you are doing it wrong.

When several mechs focus fire you in a thunderbolt, you won't have enough time to torso twist the damage. The torso's are too big and too easy to hit, which is my point. And comparing the hitboxes of a timberwolf to a thunderbolt is laughable. And you can still shoot the torsos on the Tbolt regardless if the pilot torso twists or not. In that picture I DID use torso twisting, as I always do. Didn't make a difference.

Edited by lsp, 02 January 2015 - 10:50 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Kaeb Odellas, on 02 January 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

The biggest advantage the TDR has over the AWS for PPCs its high-mounted hardpoints and better hitboxes. If you bring the TDR's numbers down to the Awesome's level, it would still be the superior PPC carrier.

Disagree. Right now it's the high-mounted hardpoints, better CT hitboxes and ERPPC heat reduction. Take away the heat reduction, and now you have a choice to make.

Do you want to be a barn-door godzilla that spits blue fire? Or do you want to be a nimbler, smaller version that isn't able to put out quite as much fire suppression?

Edited by Ghost Badger, 02 January 2015 - 10:51 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

Might disagree with you on a few pts here, but fully agree with you and Sarlic on sized hardpoints. For one thing, it would actually compliments quirks more, as mechs like the 9S would still get a PPC of doom, just no 3-4 of them.


End of the day, well done, it does limit SOME degree of customization, but it ends up opening up a lot more chassis as viable. The Panther/Firestarter being a great example....... barring completely broken quirks, the Panther has no place in the game, because everything it can do, the Firestarter does better.

But now, what if the firestarter could only carry small class weapons? Well, as the Ember and 9A show, they would still be able to be brutally effective, but that Panther packing a PPC would now be able to do something they cannot.

Sized hardpoints are not a cure all but would be welcome.

They will still just open up new mechs and new meta builds, be it massed medium lasers, or Large lasers etc etc

[Hardin4188]

The Thunderbolt er ppc build is op hax? Well no one told the clans that. Steiner has been losing planets every day.

[Navid A1]

lsp, on 02 January 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

When several mechs focus fire you in a thunderbolt, you won't have enough time to torso twist the damage. The torso's are too big and too easy to hit, which is my point. And comparing the hitboxes of a timberwolf to a thunderbolt is laughable. And you can still shoot the torsos on the Tbolt regardless if the pilot torso twists or not. In that picture I DID use torso twisting, as I always do. Didn't make a difference.

My point is that all mechs can loose their torsos pretty easily if you let the enemy to do so.

lsp, on 02 January 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

...And comparing the hitboxes of a timberwolf to a thunderbolt is laughable...

you're right... timber torsos are far more easier to hit from any angle and any range... sorry for making the comparison.


Look. Thunderbolts needed the buffs... but its over the top right now.

Edited by Navid A1, 02 January 2015 - 10:58 AM.

[verybad]

Rather than nerfing stuff, it would be cooler if some mechs got quirks that benefited NON-BOATING designs.

The TDR is supposed to be a jack of all trades kind of mech so perhaps if it got bonuses on it's quirks when it had mixed loadouts (by tonnage not numbers) eg, if it has missiles, lasers, and ppcs in roughly even tonnages, then it gets a quirk bonus for all of them, if it's less even then the quirk bonus fades...

Rather than people being testy with each other over whats not a big thing overall, they should think about solutions.

Edited by verybad, 02 January 2015 - 11:00 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Hardin4188, on 02 January 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

The Thunderbolt er ppc build is op hax? Well no one told the clans that. Steiner has been losing planets every day.

Lol, that's more pilot population and average skill level than it is a balance argument.

We won 13 of 15 matches last night on Solaris, and EVERY winning match we came out of the planet got redder...and redder...and redder.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 02 January 2015 - 10:57 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yokaiko, on 02 January 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

That is different from any other mech?

Yes.

Go ahead and bring 8 Orions into your drop deck on CW and see how dominant you are.

Answer: Not at all.

[AlmightyAeng]

verybad, on 02 January 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

Rather than nerfing stuff, it would be cooler if some mechs got quirks that benefited NON-BOATING designs.

Like the Dragon 5N? Have you SEEN people complain about its DPS? lol

[lsp]

The thunderbolt is sooo goood, yeah right. Soo good at getting it's torso's blown off because it has terrible hitboxes. The only time I do good in one is when someone ignores me, which in that case it's your fault.

[meteorol]

Hardin4188, on 02 January 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

The Thunderbolt er ppc build is op hax? Well no one told the clans that. Steiner has been losing planets every day.

Yeah, the fact that steiner is losings planets is a perfect way to determine if a mechs balance is out of whack. Skill gap between units, ghostwins, EU players (looking at steiner) having close to zero impact on CW thanks to the current ceasefire times. Couldn't think of a better way to judge a mechs strength than looking at a map.

Edited by meteorol, 02 January 2015 - 11:02 AM.

[Kensaisama]

I'll stick with my 9SE

[Kaeb Odellas]

Ghost Badger, on 02 January 2015 - 10:51 AM, said:

Disagree. Right now it's the high-mounted hardpoints, better CT hitboxes and ERPPC heat reduction. Take away the heat reduction, and now you have a choice to make.

Do you want to be a barn-door godzilla that spits blue fire? Or do you want to be a nimbler, smaller version that isn't able to put out quite as much fire suppression?

If you take away all of the heat reduction, it would be completely useless with ERPPCs. IS ERPPCs are just too hot to be useful without heat quirks.