1123 replies to this topic

[Stealthsfury]

pwnface, on 04 January 2015 - 02:19 AM, said:

I've been saying for days the DRG-1N is an incredibly potent mech but people just don't want to listen. Just shoot the arm they said, meanwhile I'm getting consistent 1200-1400dmg out of them.

Stop talking. Please, HK finally has an iconic mech!!!

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Yeah before tweaks, a single AC/5 is really an AC/30 due to its 1.67 cooldown with 5 damage per projectile around 3.00 DPS.

So stacking two gives an AC/60 at a 1.67 cooldown at 10 from two projectiles, 6.00 DPS.

Then add in quirks that grant a 50% Cooldown (which is what a ~0.835 cooldown?)and the only thing lacking is enough ammo for that dakka.

I think that quirk basically makes that arm an AC/120 at 12 DPS if my math-fu is working.

[Kiryuin Ragyo]

Pjwned, on 03 January 2015 - 06:46 PM, said:

You're an idiot, this discussion is not off-topic so I suggest pissing off to Reddit if you have a problem ignoring discussions you don't like.

Br-br-br-hue-hue! I reportu. Gib mi moni.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Stealthsfury, on 04 January 2015 - 02:22 AM, said:

Stop talking. Please, HK finally has an iconic mech!!!

Yeah, I always liked the Dragon's looks. Grand Dragon is even secksier.

Is there an Assault variant of the Dragon? I thought the Grand Dragon was 80t.....I am soo wrong it looks like haha

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 04 January 2015 - 02:43 AM.

[pwnface]

Praetor Knight, on 04 January 2015 - 02:30 AM, said:

Yeah before tweaks, a single AC/5 is really an AC/30 due to its 1.67 cooldown with 5 damage per projectile around 3.00 DPS.

So stacking two gives an AC/60 at a 1.67 cooldown at 10 from two projectiles, 6.00 DPS.

Then add in quirks that grant a 50% Cooldown (which is what a ~0.835 cooldown?)and the only thing lacking is enough ammo for that dakka.

I think that quirk basically makes that arm an AC/120 at 12 DPS if my math-fu is working.

It's actually 18dps after quirks and modules.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

pwnface, on 04 January 2015 - 02:49 AM, said:

It's actually 18dps after quirks and modules.

I forgot about the Cooldown Module and Fast Fire!

[Marcel Bekker]

Brody319, on 03 January 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

Here is a thought experiment for you. If we gave the Summoner the 9S's quirks. Would you call it overpowered?

Yes, definately. I would hate to see this mech go down the flavor of the month drain.
The summoner is perfectly fine with its current quirks, only the JJs feel a bit too sluggish.

[LordKnightFandragon]

pwnface, on 04 January 2015 - 02:49 AM, said:

It's actually 18dps after quirks and modules.

Praetor Knight, on 04 January 2015 - 02:55 AM, said:

I forgot about the Cooldown Module and Fast Fire!

Either way that dual AC5 Dragon appears to be a real murder machine.

[Marcel Bekker]

911 Inside Job, on 03 January 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

You've gone Full ReTtard. I have never seen a t-bolt even break 1200 damage in a match. Yet clammers like you think its OP? Do you have any evidence whatsoever?

Yes, going with the insult route really helped getting your point across.
Damage is not important at all as a measuring factor for effectiveness, you can spray your load all over the 12 mechs of the enemy team and not accomplish a single thing to really reduce their firepower.

Also... the irony of you calling someone a "ReTtard" is delicious.

[Kiryuin Ragyo]

Theese forum R-Tarts are so R-Tarts. Pip-bolt 9S not an issue. Clans poor heat dispansion is. Hit reg is. Blazer Cannon or ArrowIV is. New mechs and random maps is. But not an Pip-bol 9s.

Edited by Kiryuin Ragyo, 04 January 2015 - 03:10 AM.

[Allen Ward]

LordKnightFandragon, on 04 January 2015 - 03:01 AM, said:

Either way that dual AC5 Dragon appears to be a real murder machine.

It is. It easily kills a King Crab Ac20 or a Direwolf while standing with orange center torso afterwards. or it kills 3-5 mechs of various weight in a single match, usually damage around 800-1000 (and I really suck at shooting). So while everyone is whining the Tbolt being OP I ride my Dragon and take out lances alone. I mount an additonal ER LL instead of the suggested PPC, works better for me and gives more ammo. If you manage to support and fire into brawls you can take out 4-6 enemies per match. Just avoid duels, your side torso is weak and if you loose your right arm, you are pretty lame. Big advantage is your speed at almost 90kph. And heat is actually a non-issue (you will be out of ammo on most maps before you start to overheat). I always fire both Ac5 together, I have seen people chain fire them for more dakka effect, but you dont deliver damage fast eneough that way. Sync fire means you actually have a fast fire AC10.

So I guess within the next days we will see teams made up from 9S and N1 only?

[LordKnightFandragon]

Allen Ward, on 04 January 2015 - 03:20 AM, said:

It is. It easily kills a King Crab Ac20 or a Direwolf while standing with orange center torso afterwards. or it kills 3-5 mechs of various weight in a single match, usually damage around 800-1000 (and I really suck at shooting). So while everyone is whining the Tbolt being OP I ride my Dragon and take out lances alone. I mount an additonal ER LL instead of the suggested PPC, works better for me and gives more ammo. If you manage to support and fire into brawls you can take out 4-6 enemies per match. Just avoid duels, your side torso is weak and if you loose your right arm, you are pretty lame. Big advantage is your speed at almost 90kph. And heat is actually a non-issue (you will be out of ammo on most maps before you start to overheat). I always fire both Ac5 together, I have seen people chain fire them for more dakka effect, but you dont deliver damage fast eneough that way. Sync fire means you actually have a fast fire AC10.

So I guess within the next days we will see teams made up from 9S and N1 only?

CW 2015: DragonBolt meta!!!!!

[Allen Ward]

Lightfoot, on 03 January 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

Why doesn't the AWS-9M get those quirks too? The TDR-9S is a Heavy that carries one ERPPC. The AWS-9M is an Assault that carries 3xERPPCs.... but it doesn't work in MWO because we don't have DHS 2.0's. Obviously the AWS-9M requires the same cooling quirks for it's Stock 3xERPPC's. Now that we have CW, tonnage justifies competitive functionality for the extra tonnage. You know I am right on this. It's just common sense balance in a tonnage based game.

That is the only valid argument for me in this discussion. One heavy mech making an assault mech totally obsolete. That is bad game design. But, what do you expect with an open tinker tool box like the Mechlab? I still say, this game would be MUCH better with stock mechs only (4-5 lore variants per chassis). No mechlab, no boating, no cheating, no whinining. Yes, there would be weaker mechs/variants and stronegr ones, BT was not perfect. But heck, that's how life is. If everything is balanced perfectly, nothing changes anymore, nothing moves. Perfect balance is boring. As much as I love building mechs, I think it was the biggest mistake PGI made. It took lots of design/programming capacity away that could have been used for more and better maps, modes and objectives. People would have been totally happy with 30-50 stock mechs available, constantly expanding the list over the years. Now they have seen mechlab and they say: no, without out this game would be crap. That is nonsense.

[KuroNyra]

Mizeur, on 03 January 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

JJ animation: if you just tap the jump jet key without holding it down, the TBR gets about 5-10 meters of height without using any fuel. That causes shots to miss with no downside beside taking 1 or 2 tons of jump jets. It doesn't affect heat dissipation that way that a normal jump does. It also breaks the hitboxes so some hits don't register. Victors and Firestarters also have this problem. It's not as evident with other jumping mechs.

For everything else, you're missing the point. It's a near-flawless design for any role in a way no other mech is. It has almost no liabilities. All of the mechs you cited have significant drawbacks and counters. Would you really want to play a game that was just 12 TBRs vs 12 TBRs? Or even 48v48 in CW?

The Clan XL is an advantage but not a gamebreaking one on its own. It doesn't make the Summoner, Nova, or clan lights overpowered. But it's a force multiplier that makes the rest of the TBR's advantages exponentially better.

It allows you to escape and continue deal some damage. With an IS XL you'd just be dead. The TBR hitboxes allow you to spread damage more effectively than most other builds. The Victor's comparable. Its side torsos cut in leaving a gap between the arms and the legs. For comparison, the Summoners and Thunderbolts have barn walls for torsos. The Catapult is a giant CT with Mickey Mouse ears. The TBR can ditch the ears.

I already said it can overheat. But you get 2 52 point alphas before you have to cooldown. That's 1.5 legs or a torso.

It has other effective builds, too.

And I pointed out the other, small deficiencies. But they hardly make a dent in its effectiveness.

2 52 point Alphas with what? Lasers? The stuff you can easyly evade and spread damage? AC/#? The stuff that you need to correctly lead your shoot in order to hit the place you want to hit?

In comparaison, Inner Sphere can deal less damage, but can attack much more easier the place they want to attack. And thanks to the quircks they are catching up with the damage done. Let's take a mech... The Thunderbolt 9S for example.
With 3 ER PPC, you can shoot easyly trought the map. (And the velocity buff help a lot.)
With 3 shoot at the same place, it's already 30 damage done to the same place. And -thanks to the quirkcs- I will be able to deliver a second salvo right away, in less than 5 second, you can deal 60 damage to an ennemy.

And contrary to a Timber Wolf, I don't have to stay for 1.15 second shoting and targeting I want to hit with my target.
The lambda IS medium laser only have to stay 0.9, and that's without the quircks.... Quircks who most of the time reduce the duration of lasers.

All of that creating less heat of course than the Clans Weapons. But shhhhh, Clans are OP, nerf all of them.

The Timber Wolf is a jack of all trade, like it was suppose to be, but people seem to forget that guy can be destroye pretty easyly. Technicly, a Clan Mech use ferro-fibrous armor who make it much more resilient. Here, it's hardly the case.
An IS and Clan mech have the same kind of armor and the same resilience. Ever saw theses Cataphract/Centurion resisting heavy shot and keep going?



For the engine, Clans are supposed to be that way, remove that. And you basicly kill the only thing that make the Clans Mechs unique. (Firepower? IS can do the same for less heat and more focused damage. Range? QUIIIIIRRRCCCKKKS , etc etc.)

Quote

Would you really want to play a game that was just 12 TBRs vs 12 TBRs? Or even 48v48 in CW?

No, I want to play a game were each battlemech and omnimech are good and can deal with the opponent in a honorable way. There will always be imbalance, but we need to see Clans Light able to face clans IS.
Medium Clan able to face Medium IS.
Heavy able to.... You get it I think.


I want to see Nova's, Timber Wolves, Summoners and Hellbringer all efficient on the battlefield. And not one completly ahead of the rest.

But before balancing IS vs Clans. We need to balance first Clans vs Clans and IS vs IS. To reduce the gaps between each "tier" of mech.
AFTER we will be able to balance correctly IS vs Clans.


But what butthurts seems to not understand is that if the Clans have the Timber Wolf, they have there own Timber Wolf. The Thunderbolt who is more efficient when you look at his weight and the firepower he can now deliver. An Awesome can't do the job like a Thunderbolt does. And that's a problem.


<< But you are a clanner! FYFYFYFYFYFYFY GTFO! >>
Before being a Clanner, I'm a player first, and a guy who love the Battletech universe but can easyly comprehend the reason of balancing for PvP games. Sur I would have love to see Clans Mech in there "real" pride and I would have enjoyed facing them in my Awesome. (Favorite Chassis)

But I can largely enjoy facing equal to equal my opponents. And I want that to happen. But morons on both side want to keep there precious stuff with balance flaw and spit on the other side like 9 years old child.

[Chagatay]

Ghogiel, on 03 January 2015 - 09:14 PM, said:

SCR LPL builds are on the wane. The fact that people are not replacing ERLL with LPLs, the oposite is true.

Tons more CERLL in the past month on pretty much all clan heavies and SCR.

Pfft "people"......what the hell do they know. So called "people" would have you believe LRMs* are worthless and other non-flavor-of-the-month weapons (I'll admit LBX is a tad weak but so is clan ballistics so I am torn). Either way don't be a slave to these naysayers or me for that matter**, use the best tool for the job at hand and forge your own "meta".

*this weapon system has single-handedly has allowed me to pull out a win in CW matches on numerous occasions (about 10 thus far). That is 10 victories that would not be if I had any other platform!
** Just my word after all, trust yourself more!

Prophetic, on 04 January 2015 - 01:49 AM, said:

Clan tears are delicious. Nerf the Tbolt and let us keep our dragon!

Possible I even got mowed down there but you won't see me "crying". I make sure to grab my hunk of steel flesh before I go to the mechagod. As for TBolt issue, I am sure it will be dealt with***. The dragon....yeah it might even be a bit over the top....but it is still a dragon and sorta needs to get up on you to cause that level of mayhem****.

*** I know PGI, it won't be pretty.
****where you can smash its face in!!

Edited by Chagatay, 04 January 2015 - 08:17 AM.

[Marcel Bekker]

Chagatay, on 04 January 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

*snip*

I applaud you trothkin, good to know there are others out there that share this mindset.

[KuroNyra]

Ok, I made a little match with my Thunderbolt.
4 kill for 649 damage. And 5 assist.

I managed to get 4 freaking kill with that thing and remain intact...
Killed an entire Lance.

And it was not damaged target, heck no. 2 Dire Wolf, a JaeggerMech and another Thunderbolt 9S.
And with bonus a heat friendly map. I could litterraly spam my ER PPC with no problem...

Funniest match I ever had since a long time. Not in my Timber Wolf I would have that kind of fun.


edit: I found 2 little music that could go well for each mech.


Boss Theme "ThunderBolt"

(Big Vardha theme PSO2)






Boss Theme "Timber Wolf"

(Dragon EX theme PSO2)

Edited by KuroNyra, 04 January 2015 - 09:23 AM.

[EvilCow]

KuroNyra, on 04 January 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

Ok, I made a little match with my Thunderbolt.
4 kill for 649 damage. And 5 assist.

I managed to get 4 freaking kill with that thing and remain intact...
Killed an entire Lance.

And it was not damaged target, heck no. 2 Dire Wolf, a JaeggerMech and another Thunderbolt 9S.
And with bonus a heat friendly map. I could litterraly spam my ER PPC with no problem...

Funniest match I ever had since a long time. Not in my Timber Wolf I would have that kind of fun.

Nerf this one!!

[Lily from animove]

corner peek battles with adder vs thunderbolts, i do 900 dmg before my adder dies, dodging their ppc's is easier than they dodging yours. They are big, I am small and quick

Edited by Lily from animove, 04 January 2015 - 09:23 AM.

[InspectorG]

Stealthsfury, on 04 January 2015 - 02:03 AM, said:

Been fun but one class of mech does not outdo every other choice. Especially since you have the best in class heavy.

Maybe you wan to trade your Timber for a TBolt?

You pretty much evaded those questions, so...

Basically you are saying: "because Clans get Timberwolves they dont need to fix the other scrubby Clan mechs"

My argument was in response to a guy claiming the Summoner was goo just not in comparison to the Timby.

You may need to read the post i referenced before you respond with non-pertinent questions, its muddling the point i made.

BTW:
I do not own Timby, only heavies i own are Summoners and Thunderbolts. Used to have catapults but never used them.
I mainly pilot lights.

As for Clan vs IS, i like both FRR and CGB in particular.

Dont throw your boo boo Clan OP butthurt on me. I view them as about balanced. Clans have Timby? IS has FireStarter...