1123 replies to this topic

[oldradagast]

kapusta11, on 05 January 2015 - 02:32 AM, said:

Usually I just roll my eyes at the latest FotM mech. After a while it just ges tedious. The Stormcrow/Timberwolf doesn't bug me when it is 1 or 2 amongst a variety of other mechs but when it is 2 waves of 9-12 it really should be a good indicator that there is balance problem somewhere.

Now, now - remember that it is all "skill" when a Clan team dismembers an IS attacking team, particularly on Boreal, with obviously superior mechs, but when an IS team can fight back with something like the Thud, it needs a nerf...

Just like the constant Clanner excuse that the "only reason" they play nothing but Timberwolves and Stormcrows is because "all the other Clan mechs are terrible," but when the IS does the same thing with the Thud for the same reason, we suddenly need a nerf.

Except Clan whining to win and force a Thud nerf so we can get back to one-sided, predictable battles with those running the superior mechs trashing talking about their "skills" and complaining about "whiners" after their own whining nerfed the only IS competitive mech... right...

Edited by oldradagast, 05 January 2015 - 04:12 AM.

[TexAce]

Don't worry, I just started with Tbolts and I HATE PPCs in any form. Nearly never use them. Will be packing Pulses most of the time I guess

[LordKnightFandragon]

EvilCow, on 04 January 2015 - 02:10 PM, said:

Any evidence? a screenshot maybe? I never seen more than 3-4 of them at the same time in all PUG teams I played in. A single screenshot and you will have convinced me.

I don't ask 12 of them like you claimed, I will settle for half of that.

Shoulda snapped some screenies of the CW fight I was in like lastnight, atleast half the mechs were TDRs.....a number of Dragons and jagers as well. There were a few Jenners and FS9s.....

[Mott]

Kdogg788, on 02 January 2015 - 06:06 AM, said:

If you brought both the ER PPC heat and Energy heat gen quirks down from 25% to 20% it could work without hitting it with the nerf bat of doom. The 9S is a good IS counter to clan range.

-k

It is the ONLY inner sphere counter to Clan range.

[Kirkland Langue]

Mott, on 05 January 2015 - 08:44 AM, said:

It is the ONLY inner sphere counter to Clan range.

And this is why it gets played so much on Boreal, where Range Rules.

I'd be ok with knocking that heat gen to 40%, instead of 50% - but these calls for cutting it to 25%? They might as well remove the 9S from the game because it would go right back to the obscurity it enjoyed the last forever.

Right now the 9S has a Role in the game. It's one of the few mechs with an actual Role in the game. If anything, every other mech should be given this level of quirks so that they are given Roles as well.

[Brody319]

PGI needs tos top balancing for CW and Competitive areas. Competitive and CW always will find mech builds that exploit the system. Quirk the IS, and they switch to broken IS mechs, nerf those broken builds and more broken mechs will show up.

Balance the PUGs and let the competitive people exploit the system, because they will always do that. You could make it so each weapon only does 1 damage and competitive players will find a build to exploit that.

[operatorZ]

Brody319, on 05 January 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

PGI needs tos top balancing for CW and Competitive areas. Competitive and CW always will find mech builds that exploit the system. Quirk the IS, and they switch to broken IS mechs, nerf those broken builds and more broken mechs will show up.

Balance the PUGs and let the competitive people exploit the system, because they will always do that. You could make it so each weapon only does 1 damage and competitive players will find a build to exploit that.

I agree that balance should not be predicated on CW or comp teams...however...

The problem is....CW was fairly balanced before everybody started running majority 9S ERPPC spam...what unbalanced it was the competitive teams finding a "I win" button, it just exposed the fact that the 9S is OP in a large fashion....a little tone down will be in order. These teams are running this mech/loadout because it is better than any other mech they could bring....and with it being 65 tons it just happens to be the perfect fit for a drop deck. They are not running this mech because its "fun"....

reduce quirk heat buff by 1/2

and/or

reduce velocity by 1/4

[Mirumoto Izanami]

operatorZ, on 05 January 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

I agree that balance should not be predicated on CW or comp teams...however...

The problem is....CW was fairly balanced before everybody started running majority 9S ERPPC spam...what unbalanced it was the competitive teams finding a "I win" button, it just exposed the fact that the 9S is OP in a large fashion....a little tone down will be in order. These teams are running this mech/loadout because it is better than any other mech they could bring....and with it being 65 tons it just happens to be the perfect fit for a drop deck. They are not running this mech because its "fun"....

reduce quirk heat buff by 1/2

and/or

reduce velocity by 1/4

Yes to reducing the heat quirks on the 9s (even better, remove the ERPPC heat reduction, and leave it with just 25% energy heat reduction).

However, the problem lies more with the modes and maps of CW. Comps use the 9S not because its the best IS mech, but because its the best IS mech for the maps/modes available for CW. If CW had more diverse objectives, and if the maps were better designed to encourage a mix of engagement options instead of more or less just long range engagements (or even if their were several maps that were horrible for long range attacks that were mixed into the random pool), then the 9s wouldn't be a problem.

What people are experiencing are a compressed/limited set of variables that encourage one style of combat. The 9S just happens to be the IS mech best suited for those set of conditions.

Need proof for the above statements? Look at whats used in the non CW modes, whether group or solo queue.

TLDR: Diversify the conditions of CW, and the 9s is no longer the lynchpin issue thats drawing so much rancor in the forums.

Edited by Mirumoto Izanami, 05 January 2015 - 10:40 AM.

[Tombstoner]

People forget that in CW ammo matters. thus for long engagements you bring energy weapons.... ERLL doesn't possess FLD by design. thus the only option is the ERPPC. so when allocating tonnage. you go for the best set of quirks and boat.

This is what a 3rd degree decision tree. lets face it MW/BT doesn't offer a huge range of weapons. Whats critically wrong once again is perfect accuracy. add a COF onto linked weapons and you would see much more chain fire and damage spread

[operatorZ]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 05 January 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

Yes to reducing the heat quirks on the 9s (make it 30% total reduction instead of 50%).

However, the problem lies more with the modes and maps of CW. Comps use the 9S not because its the best IS mech, but because its the best IS mech for the maps/modes available for CW. If CW had more diverse objectives, and if the maps were better designed to encourage a mix of engagement options instead of more or less just long range engagements (or even if their were several maps that were horrible for long range attacks that were mixed into the random pool), then the 9s wouldn't be a problem.

What people are experiencing are a compressed/limited set of variables that encourage one style of combat. The 9S just happens to be the IS mech best suited for those set of conditions.

Need proof for the above statements? Look at whats used in the non CW modes, whether group or solo queue.

TLDR: Diversify the conditions of CW, and the 9s is no longer the lynchpin issue thats drawing so much rancor in the forums.

I agree

[Kraven Kor]

Keira RAVEN McKenna, on 02 January 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

I dont get it... the Tbolt ERPPC isnt uber powerful... if at long range and you are in a sniper dule with them, stand side on and keep moving forward and back (side to side from their point of aim) and they usually miss...

Yeah, but not against a good shot. I am half-terrible and can generally predict a "jogging" target. And lord knows "jogging" hasn't done me much good.

There's also the problem with secondary fire; you're hyper-focused on your dueling opponent and maybe not seeing everything else going on.

[Joseph Mallan]

I still have to laugh at the title... As if bad game play didn't exist before the Thunderbolt!

[Kensaisama]

Because "Shenanigans".

[Joseph Mallan]

Kensaisama, on 05 January 2015 - 11:30 AM, said:

Because "Shenanigans".

Murders of Ravens
Capellans with their (Yen Lo) Wangs out

The list is endless. the whine is as well.

[kapusta11]

I wonder how PGI will handle PPC Capacitors (+5 damage, +5 heat, +1 ton and +1 crit). Balancing stuff without having all the other tech in mind will get them nowhere.

Edited by kapusta11, 05 January 2015 - 11:40 AM.

[Mott]

kapusta11, on 05 January 2015 - 11:40 AM, said:

I wonder how PGI will handle PPC Capacitors (+5 damage, +5 heat, +1 ton and +1 crit). Balancing stuff without having all the other tech in mind will get them nowhere.

That would require forethought... and...

[Koniks]

Mott, on 05 January 2015 - 08:44 AM, said:

It is the ONLY inner sphere counter to Clan range.

It's the best Inner Sphere counter, not the only one.

[Kirkland Langue]

Mizeur, on 05 January 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

It's the best Inner Sphere counter, not the only one.

What other mechs can outrange Clan Mechs?
What other mechs have equal range but higher damage?

I'm genuinely curious.

EDIT - I should note that I know a couple, one of which will likely become the "next" IS mech if the 9s is effectively nerfed into the ground. I'm just curious what other options there are that I haven't looked at.

Edited by Kirkland Langue, 05 January 2015 - 02:46 PM.

[Koniks]

Dual Gauss Jager. 30 pinpoint damage at ~700m optimal range with the module and still has the 3x effective range that the other ballistics used to have, so it does damage out to 2100. And its hardpoints are located almost has high up as the TDR's. However it's slower, more fragile because of its XL and exploding arms, and will run out of ammo unlike that 9S.

4xERLL Assaults like the Battlemaster and Stalker. Both are less tonnage efficient than the 9S, don't do frontloaded damage, and are not as useful outside of sniping. They do have shorter beam durations and better DPS than the clan, though. The Stalker is significantly slower. And they're less tonnage efficient so you'll have to take another Firestarter in your dropdeck which will obviously cripple your team...

3xERLL SHD-2Ks and 4xERLL Quickdraws. Both have better speed and agility than the 9S. They can take jump jets. But they're both more fragile. The 2K's alpha is smaller than the 9S and the other laser options. The Quickdraw's hardpoints aren't quite as high up.

Edited by Mizeur, 05 January 2015 - 03:04 PM.

[Chagatay]

kapusta11, on 05 January 2015 - 11:40 AM, said:

I wonder how PGI will handle PPC Capacitors (+5 damage, +5 heat, +1 ton and +1 crit). Balancing stuff without having all the other tech in mind will get them nowhere.

Turns IS PPC into crappy clan ERPPC (minus ER part)
1 ton for 2.5x2 splash damage effect for 5 heat*.

* Actually that is unfair it is IS so make it 5 splash damage to 1 component (they are the kings of pinpoint after all)

Edited by Chagatay, 05 January 2015 - 09:11 PM.