57 replies to this topic

[Wardn]

So I was watching the video breakdown on the MechLab, and I noticed while he was throwing cannons and lasers and whatnot onto the mech, the outside of the mech never seemed to change. It still had that huge shoulder cannon (what I'm assuming was a shoulder cannon, bit new to MechWarrior), still only had seemingly one laser on the arm, and the machine-gun he threw on didn't seem to be represented cosmetically at all. Now is this just a feature they hadn't added to the game yet (I'm hoping this is the case), or is it just not going to be there?

[Clan Warrior]

This is how it works in BT Universe. To make a long story short, you just use compatible space to install your weapons and other mods. The outside look doesn't change. But weapons like missiles or ballistics will fire from that particular place. You can't install ballistics into missiles and vice verse. Outside look never changes.

Outside look is just like a box to which you put or install weapons systems, mods, etc. Changes happen on the inside that we don't see on the outside. So visually things remain the same outside each mech.

This is like you upgrade or install better engine inside your car. As long as that engine is going to fit inside your car you can do it. Car still looks the same on the outside but you have better engine inside your car.

Things work similar in BT Universe when equipping your mech. If it fits you can install it

Of course we have rules for installing weapons, etc, and it is more complicated than that, we have omnitech, omnimechs, we have different circa techs, weapons, mods. But as soon as new tech arrives mechs get upgrade like having new variants that let you again install new tech and weapons.

[Petroff Northrup]

Clan Warrior, on 26 June 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

This is how it works in BT Universe. To make a long story short, you just use compatible space to install your weapons and other mods. The outside look doesn't change. But weapons like missiles or ballistics will fire from that particular place. You can't install ballistics into missiles and vice verse. Outside look never changes.

Outside look is just like a box to which you put or install weapons systems, mods, etc. Changes happen on the inside that we don't see on the outside. So visually things remain the same outside each mech.

This is like you upgrade or install better engine inside your car. As long as that engine is going to fit inside your car you can do it. Car still looks the same on the outside but you have better engine inside your car.

Things work similar in BT Universe when equipping your mech. If it fits you can install it

Of course we have rules for installing weapons, etc, and it is more complicated than that, we have omnitech, omnimechs, we have different circa techs, weapons, mods. But as soon as new tech arrives mechs get upgrade like having new variants that let you again install new tech and weapons.

Actually that is more how Omnimechs work, when you customize a battlemech the appearance does change which is why in canon custom mechs are so rare unless it is a simple field refit because you are look at remachining the armor and potentially even some of the internal structure to fit the remounted weapon systems.

[Clan Warrior]

Petroff Northrup, on 26 June 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

Actually that is more how Omnimechs work, when you customize a battlemech the appearance does change which is why in canon custom mechs are so rare unless it is a simple field refit because you are look at remachining the armor and potentially even some of the internal structure to fit the remounted weapon systems.

You have variants for this which I have mentioned. Mechs never change outside look. No matter what variant setup Atlas is going to always look like an Atlas and so does every other mech omnimech or not. Paint jobs change not physical looks.

PS. If and when physical looks change of mechX1 then it is new mech based on mechX1.

Edited by Clan Warrior, 26 June 2012 - 09:18 PM.

[Ricama]

It's for real life reasons. Either every possible configuration of each mech has to be modeled, you need half a dozen different rendered objects moving in formation(which could lead to floating modules with a little lag) or the client has to render the modifications which ups the system requirements. So for now at least we're stuck with having a large laser fire from 2 medium laser ports or a gauss rifle shot coming from the ac-20 port of a hunchback and not having any idea what a mech is actually carrying until it shoots.

[Clan Warrior]

It's not because of game designing problems, it's how it is in BT. When you install different compatible weapon in place of another, that weapon is never going to change mechs physical look no matter what.

You can read "Battletech Readouts" and you'll never see something like weapons altering physical appearance in mech variants.

Only way you could get that is if and when JJ Abrams would get into BT and alter timeline. As a result you would see unicorns and other mythical creatures.

Edited by Clan Warrior, 26 June 2012 - 10:06 PM.

[Infine]

Clan Warrior, on 26 June 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

You can read "Battletech Readouts" and you'll never see something like weapons altering physical appearance in mech variants.

Or would you?

I'm not an expert on BT fluff and have no TROs to look at, but I think a long time ago in a galaxy far far away I've read that for some time Mad Dog C was being considered as an entirely separate mech by unsuspecting IS forces due to differing greatly from more traditional Mad Dog configs.

Or take MW:LL for example. I know it takes some... ahemmm... deviations from canon, but there weapon mounts are easily recognizable.

And, really, I don't think you can make a Gauus rifle mount and a dual laser mount look similar (Mad dog). Or Laser and RAC-5 mounts (Marauder).

Edited by Infine, 26 June 2012 - 10:28 PM.

[Noth]

Infine, on 26 June 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

Or would you?

I'm not an expert on BT fluff and have no TROs to look at, but I think a long time ago in a galaxy far far away I've read that for some time Mad Dog C was being considered as an entirely separate mech by unsuspecting IS forces due to differing greatly from more traditional Mad Dog configs.

Or take MW:LL for example. I know it takes some... ahemmm... deviations from canon, but there weapon mounts are easily recognizable.

Mad Dog C is a variant. For all intents and purposes in this game it would be another mech you had to purchse just like the Hunchback 4P and teh Catapult K2

[Infine]

Noth, on 26 June 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

Mad Dog C is a variant. For all intents and purposes in this game it would be another mech you had to purchse just like the Hunchback 4P and teh Catapult K2

Mad Dog C is an OMNI variant mind you. Here's a delicious quote from this thread for you.

Clan Warrior, on 26 June 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

o matter what variant setup Atlas is going to always look like an Atlas and so does every other mech omnimech or not.

And here I have to remind you that, IIRC, established OMNI variants on omnimechs are actually the fast-swap options as opposed to customizing an established omni variant. Which essencially makes them less custom from Prime than just plain customizing Prime.

Edited by Infine, 26 June 2012 - 10:40 PM.

[Noth]

Infine, on 26 June 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

Mad Dog C is an OMNI variant mind you. Here's a delicious quote from this thread for you.


And here I have to remind you that, IIRC, established OMNI variants on omnimechs are actually the fast-swap options as opposed to customizing an established omni variant. Which essencially makes them less custom from Prime than just plain customizing Prime.

Yes it's an OMNI variant. You could argue that a Catapult K2 looks like a completely different mech since it is lacking the signature missile pods. Variants (as they are different mechs in this game) will look different, simply swapping weapons out will not change the appearance. That is the entire point I'm making.

[Infine]

Noth, on 26 June 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

Yes it's an OMNI variant. You could argue that a Catapult K2 looks like a completely different mech since it is lacking the signature missile pods. Variants (as they are different mechs in this game) will look different, simply swapping weapons out will not change the appearance. That is the entire point I'm making.

This is why you fail we disagree. In this game.

We are talking about different things. You are saying that this won't happen in this game.
I'm trying to figure out whether the "canon" justification is the right one for not even attempting to model it in this game.

[Woodstock]

Wardn, on 26 June 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

So I was watching the video breakdown on the MechLab, and I noticed while he was throwing cannons and lasers and whatnot onto the mech, the outside of the mech never seemed to change. It still had that huge shoulder cannon (what I'm assuming was a shoulder cannon, bit new to MechWarrior), still only had seemingly one laser on the arm, and the machine-gun he threw on didn't seem to be represented cosmetically at all. Now is this just a feature they hadn't added to the game yet (I'm hoping this is the case), or is it just not going to be there?

Hey ...when the vid first came out this was all over the forums ... that was prob my fault.

The official reply was that it is their goal to have customisation visible ...so you take off a med laser and ..poof ... the gun disappears. Or add one and poof there it is etc.

The video was released months ago though and it was before closed beta or at the very beginning. So they said that, currently, variants have a radically different look and they are introducing other changes as they go.

I know where your worries are coming from (the same place as mine) ... but I think you shouldn't be worried.

[Erwiin]

Swapping out weapons should change the look, but due to time/coding/FPS/etc restraints, it looks as if it won't be implemented. With me its a minor gripe, but not a big issue.

[Woodstock]

Found the reply:

Bryan Ekman, on 08 May 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

Here's your official answer. At launch, there will be limited visual changes to the Mechs for many of the stated reasons in this thread. We do have a visual solution in place for the hardpoints, but it's going to be a race to the finish, and it may slip into open beta. Like MWLL we each variant has a custom look.

So open beta is the end of August.

[Clan Warrior]

This is all speculation at this time if they go ahead with changing physical looks of iconic mechs to the point that it doesn't look like original mech then it won't be BT canon. To me it won't feel like BT at all but some imitation of BT. Since developers pride themselves that MWO is going to be closely BT canon related I can't see how they going to do that without making BT look silly

In addition weapons, mods, look different on each mech. One mech has AC20 and it looks different from another mech that also has AC20. Missile rack designs vary from mech to mech.

I doubt it that they going to do it. If it is going to be it will be minor cosmetic change nothing major. Otherwise welcome to lookalike contest and some wired looking mechs out of BT world.

If they can do this they can also add 3rd person view while they at it, with 360 degree turning torso. JJ Abrams would be proud LOL

If they do that you can have my stuff with all the C-bills and founders mechs included. First come first served.

[The Vogfather]

its in beta.. i would focus more on the core game it self... aesthetics can always be added later in a patch.

Edited by The Vogfather, 26 June 2012 - 11:46 PM.

[Ramrod]

Clan Warrior, on 26 June 2012 - 11:39 PM, said:

This is all speculation at this time if they go ahead with changing physical looks of iconic mechs to the point that it doesn't look like original mech then it won't be BT canon. To me it won't feel like BT at all but some imitation of BT. Since developers pride themselves that MWO is going to be closely BT canon related I can't see how they going to do that without making BT look silly

In addition weapons, mods, look different on each mech. One mech has AC20 and it looks different from another mech that also has AC20. Missile rack designs vary from mech to mech.

I doubt it that they going to do it. If it is going to be it will be minor cosmetic change nothing major. Otherwise welcome to lookalike contest and some wired looking mechs out of BT world.

If they can do this they can also add 3rd person view while they at it, with 360 degree turning torso. JJ Abrams would be proud LOL

If they do that you can have my stuff with all the C-bills and founders mechs included. First come first served.

So a Gauss rifle in the shoulder of a Hunchback customised from a stock 4G chassis would have the exact same bore as an AC/2? Or replacing the medium lasers with PPCs would in fact not change the look or size of the arm weapons? Got it.

[Clan Warrior]

Ramrod, on 26 June 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

So a Gauss rifle in the shoulder of a Hunchback customised from a stock 4G chassis would have the exact same bore as an AC/2? Or replacing the medium lasers with PPCs would in fact not change the look or size of the arm weapons? Got it.

Its got a gigantic HOLE in there ain't ? I'm sure you can fire your Gauss from there. How big of a HOLE would want that is the question?

[Ramrod]

You miss my point. The Gauss might need the giant hole (which is giant cause of the AC/20). But the AC/2 wouldn't need one that big. Why would you leave it that huge?

[Clan Warrior]

Ramrod, on 27 June 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

You miss my point. The Gauss might need the giant hole (which is giant cause of the AC/20). But the AC/2 wouldn't need one that big. Why would you leave it that huge?

No, I get what you saying I was just answering your question . In BT Universe if it fits you can put it in assuming it is compatible with your mech and the type of weapon. Therefore you don't need to make mechs look physically different after loading different weapon of similar type. All mechs have restrictions anyway.

So if you put smaller AC2 in that bigger size hole it won't make any difference. That hole is there for other larger weapons. It fits inside and it shoots.

Edited by Clan Warrior, 27 June 2012 - 12:14 AM.