451 replies to this topic

[salkeee]

Didnt read all but rly most OP mech ? My Jag 3xac5 4xml is much much more scary.

[MechWarrior9376871]

xe N on, on 03 January 2015 - 05:39 AM, said:

As an mostly IS pilot I find that wubwub and ERPPC Thundebolts need to be nerfed. They are just over the top.

Why do I think you are lying about being an IS pilot when you are a member of Ghost Bear? I must be a Fracking psychic.

[Mordin Ashe]

Yes, of course you are right IS players, Clans were OP but ridiculously quirked Jagers/Dragons/Thunderbolts are just fine and we should learn to play.

Little consistency, please. Just a little would do. Thank you.

[Chagatay]

911 Inside Job, on 03 January 2015 - 06:59 AM, said:

Why do I think you are lying about being an IS pilot when you are a member of Ghost Bear? I must be a Fracking psychic.

To be fair, maybe he is piloting mostly IS mechs and TELLING THE TRUTH. You know that CW is just one mode of play right?

Now of course, I play clan mechs alot so I am not even going to weigh in on the discussion. Suffice to say, PGI will touch the TDR-9S in a very bad way* it is just a matter of WHEN not IF (discussing it any further than that is a waste of time). See you on the battlefield.

-- Chag

* Hohohoh queues dramatic Terminator music. Nerfinator will soon be back and.....hasta la vista......

Edited by Chagatay, 03 January 2015 - 07:06 AM.

[KuroNyra]

Widowmaker1981, on 03 January 2015 - 06:34 AM, said:

To be honest, while i used to agree the thundrbolt was stupid OP, im not so sure anymore. a bit maybe, but not hugely. I think part of the reason is that IS ERPPCs, which is what it is hugely buffed for, are contenders for being the worst weapon system in the game imo (well, barring flamers obviously)

I did some testing to compare to clan mechs and the results are a little closer that i thought (all tests on forest colony. with mastered mechs - using a stopwatch so times could be maybe 0.5s wrong):

Thunderbolt 9S, STD 290, 3x ERPPC, 16DHS, ERPPC cd5
Firing only the 2 shoulder mounted PPCs as a pair:
8 volleys in 16 seconds, overheats on the 8th - 160 pinpoint damage. Takes ~19s to cool from 100% to zero

Warhawk, 2x ERPPC, 2xLPL, 28DHS, TC1, ERPPC cd5
Firing only the PPCs:
6 Volleys in 16s, overheats on the 6th. 120 pinpoint, 30-60 splash, takes ~15s to cool from 100% to zero

Hellbringer, 2x ERPPC, 24 DHS, TC1, ERPPC cd5 (bad build, wouldnt use it in a game, just to compare equal tonnage)
5 volleys in 13s, overheats on the 5th - 100 pinpoint, 25-50 splash. takes 19s to cool down from 100% to zero

Compared to the Warhawk the Thud is doing similar damage before overheat, though more pinpoint, moving faster and more agile, 20 tons lighter. The extra weapons on both mechs nearly balance each other with a slight advantage to the warhawk there. The warhawk dissipates its heat slightly faster, but nowhere as much as youd expect from all those heatsinks (due to DHS raising the cap as well as the dissipation i think). The thunderbolt is a better mech, but there isnt a great deal in it really - but the WHK is 20 tons heavier, so in this kind of comparision its a bit silly that it would lose.

The BHR is faster andd more agile than the thud and has ECM, but its heat efficiency cannot compare.. its a bit of a silly comparison though, because thats not a good hellbringer build - Guass + 4 ERML is far better. Its more to show that with 24 DHS it takes almost exactly the same time to cool from 100% to zero as the TDR with 16 DHS

My conclusion from this really is that DHS should be made true 2.0s all the way for dissipation only (so clans actually get the benefit from having so many, which they pay for in other nerfs) and increase all armour by say 20% to compensate for slightly increased DPS.

But of course the Thunderbolt is not an unstoppable machine.
But thanks to the quricks, that mech is beyond the rest thanks to his ERPPC and he need to be turned down.

The Warhawk was suppose to have enought heat sink to cunter the 4 PPC he got. But it is not the case, an Awesome run cooler by firing all 4 PPC at the same time in compairason. (Alpha with a Warhawk, and you overheat.)
The Hellbringer is not viable for PPC, the only thing at the moment who save that guy is the ECM.

The problem is we have a battlemech of 65 ton doing better job and having better heat management than mech of 80 ton who were designed specificly for THAT at the origin. It's kinda silly.

Like the StormCrow and the Timber Wolf, the Thunderbolt need a tuning down.

[Xavier]

The TDR-9S is a perfect example of what quirks should do. This mech was basically useless before giving it quirks but now it has become viable against superior clan weapons. I speak as an -MS- pilot and we have played both sides of the CW line the TDR-9S can be beaten we have done it, it also is very viable to help attack against clans we have done this as well. Everyone that is calling for it to be nerfed are doing so because they beleive that clan mechs must remain more powerful relative to IS mechs. If the goal of quirks was to bring IS near to par with clans than the TDR-9S is exactly what they wanted. I don't think the 9S needs to be nerfed rather I think it should be used as a perfect example if what properly assigned quirks can do to narrow the weapon gap between clan and IS.

TDR-9S not OP
-S-

Edited by Xavier, 03 January 2015 - 07:09 AM.

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

911 Inside Job, on 03 January 2015 - 06:59 AM, said:

Why do I think you are lying about being an IS pilot when you are a member of Ghost Bear? I must be a Fracking psychic.

I'm sorry that someone from the opposite faction has an objective eye, and funnily enough a lot of you are forgetting that if TDR-9S is out performing some clan chassis then its out performing more I.S chassis (Awesome for example) and not everyone on CW is fighting clans there fighting other I.S factions too and I suspect that I.S players don't want to see a plethora of thunderbolts when there attacking another I.S faction it works both ways mate not just one,

[salkeee]

I really do belive that TDR 9S is more popular than it is good.So when do ppl see lost game and good number of TDRs they will blame TDR,but trust me those games are lost becouze better team won.
I do agree that TDR 9S is only mech so far where I would put 3x ERPPC but that setup is not even close to be OP,I wouldnt mind getin heat eff 20%/20%..
In CW if not for ammo problems that my Jager have I would always pick Jager instead of TDR always.

[Milocinia]

Most 9S will be running an XL. Not hard to take out a ST is it?

[KuroNyra]

Kyocera, on 03 January 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

Most 9S will be running an XL. Not hard to take out a ST is it?

Mine run a STD.
His speed is more than enought for his sniping role.

[Iron Buccaneer]

Kyocera, on 03 January 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

Most 9S will be running an XL. Not hard to take out a ST is it?

Only the dumb ones. They are the size of a mac truck. I never run XLs in any of mine and you can build the 3 ERPPC build without one.

[MerryIguana]

Mordin Ashe, on 03 January 2015 - 07:01 AM, said:

Yes, of course you are right IS players, Clans were OP but ridiculously quirked Jagers/Dragons/Thunderbolts are just fine and we should learn to play.

Little consistency, please. Just a little would do. Thank you.

If you want consistency then IS mechs should dominate clan mechs for a 3 month period just like clan launch. Amirite?

[xe N on]

911 Inside Job, on 03 January 2015 - 06:59 AM, said:

Why do I think you are lying about being an IS pilot when you are a member of Ghost Bear? I must be a Fracking psychic.

Because when CW started I signed first a 7 day Steiner contract followed by a 7 day Ghost Bear contract to find out if the Clans are really as strong as complained. I found out that this is not correct, its more a matter of team work and organization. And maybe bad map design in the case of boreal.

After the 7 days Ghost Bear I will go permanently back to Steiner. Because ...they made one big mistake ... they invaded my home planet!

In normal game modes I drive 80% the time IS mechs. Mostly mediums and lights. I could easily drive my fully mastered SCRs all the day along. However, Its so much more fun to play a GRF. And to be honest ... it even looks better at killing things then the naked chicken aka stormcrow.

PS: I also got alot intel about the enemy. Keep your friends close, but your enemies even closer

Edited by xe N on, 03 January 2015 - 07:41 AM.

[Ngamok]

Both factions can snipe with Dual Gauss and do the same thing and murder TDR-9S(s).

Edited by Ngamok, 03 January 2015 - 07:44 AM.

[Milocinia]

KuroNyra, on 03 January 2015 - 07:19 AM, said:

Mine run a STD.
His speed is more than enought for his sniping role.

Iron Buccaneer, on 03 January 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

Only the dumb ones. They are the size of a mac truck. I never run XLs in any of mine and you can build the 3 ERPPC build without one.

You can quite easily but most of the ones I've seen run an XL

[Monkey Lover]

salkeee, on 03 January 2015 - 06:58 AM, said:

Didnt read all but rly most OP mech ? My Jag 3xac5 4xml is much much more scary.

You know they cried about the firestarter with small pulse lasers until it got nerfed your jag might be next lol. The only mech that seams immuned is the timber. They will nerf every clan weapon into the ground before they go after the problem haha.

[Ultimax]

Kyocera, on 03 January 2015 - 08:06 AM, said:

You can quite easily but most of the ones I've seen run an XL

It's a death trap with an XL, you will lose a ST.


For starters, it's capped at a 315. You can build both the 5SS Thunderwub an 9S ER PPC build with STDs and while you lose some speed it's not like you can actually go all that big on engine in the first place.


The fact that it is so wide, and has such bad geometry - can't run an XL and therefore struggled to get enough Firepower to justify it's place on the field is exactly why they have received the quirks they got in the first place.


These mechs were T5 prior to quirks, for many very valid reasons.

[jlawsl]

You know, I keep hearing that the TDR is better with PPCs then an AWS. Perhaps the 9M with the ERPPC, though the AWS far outranges the TDR because the TDR does not get any range buffs to its PPC while the 9m gets +25% range, it gets a faster buff to ERPPC velocity as well. So, the 9M is better at range and hitting a target at range while the TDR is a little better at sustaining fire.

But, the TDR doesn't keep up with an AWS 8Q when it comes to crapping out PPCs. Each reduces heat to the same level, the AWS gets range and velocity buffs greater then the TDR, so it brings the PPC to about the same level as the erppc on the TDR except for its range being shorter by 270 meters.

So, heat is equal 7.5 each, velocity is pretty much equal(1207.5MPS TDR, vs 1187.5MPS AWS). Their cooldown is buff is exactly the same. So, taking that into account. You put a 300 Standard in an AWS with 3 PPCs and fill the rest with heatsinks. Thats 21 tons of weapons, 25 tons of engine and 12 tons of heat sinks for a total of 58 tons. Now, I am failing to see some people's comments on how a TDR with the same engine is going to have a better heat efficiency then something it CAN'T. That would leave the TDR 7 tons of armor and structure. You can take that mech every day if you ask me.

The TDR isn't over buffed, and it isn't the end all of what it does. It mounts some energy weapons ok, so what? There is one map on community warfare(in other words, one map in the whole game) where this even matters. Otherwise, I haven't noticed them being op other than a lot of people jumping on the TDR bandwagon.

[Av4tar]

totaly agree, remove heat and range buffs and add +5 extra damage.

[Xavier]

Gyrok, on 02 January 2015 - 11:52 PM, said:

Heat reduction needs to go. I could care less about velocity, but I just fought against inferior pilots in terms of skill, and saw ERPPCs flying from every angle in such a manner that it was IMPOSSIBLE to trade because they NEVER overheated...

Heat scale is the only way to limit DPS in this game, and if it is unlimited...then 20+10 damage will fly continually...there are already macros for it.

to which inferior pilots might you be referring sir?