451 replies to this topic

[KuroNyra]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 January 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

Does anybody actually alpha with three ER-PPCs? I always see them fired in 2+1 to just pound away at the target, even the TDR-9S can only alpha twice with three.

I still think the best mechanic for PPCs would be to add a brief no-aborts charge before the shot flies. Make people think twice before they commit to firing a round.

I do.
With standart stock engine.
I go at 54% of heat when firing all 3 ER PPC.

[Koniks]

Nightshade24, on 04 January 2015 - 05:47 AM, said:

Yes, and I repeat. I never see clans get over 1500 damage.

This is just silly but I'll bite.

Now you've seen 6 1500+ games and 2 2000+ games in a single drop. You'd pretty much have to either lose to a single wave IS light rush while defending/holding territory or win only by rushing on attack/counter-attack to not see matches like this.

Nightshade24, on 04 January 2015 - 07:07 AM, said:

They are often effective in CW and spread the damage accross each LORD team mate.

It's 4800 damage to kill 48 mechs that have 100 points of armour in the CT
if it's a 4 man lance, that's 1200 damage each... assume all enemy mechs are 100 tonners -ish

Your assumption that people should shoot for the CT isn't accurate.

Killing mechs quickly isn't always the best approach. It's frequently better to leg them and/or strip off the components that have most of their weapon hardpoints. That way you can stop a rush and kill them later or force them to make a decision about ejecting while you go for the objectives

Ignoring damage spread, legging a TDR is 90 points of damage. 2 for the kill is 180 points. If instead, you wanted to take out 2/3rds of its weapons by destroying its RT is probably another 110-150 damage plus another 110-200 damage depending on whether you go for both legs, the CT, or a leg and CT, too since you also get credit for destroying the arm. And if you get critical hits that destroy equipment, that's more damage.

Then you have to consider that not everyone's going to put out an equal amount of damage because of positioning, loadout, and role. That's how people end up with high damage counts.

Edited by Mizeur, 04 January 2015 - 11:32 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

KuroNyra, on 04 January 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

I do.
With standart stock engine.
I go at 54% of heat when firing all 3 ER PPC.

And then you do it again and you have to wait. The point wasn't that it can't be done, but that's it's wholly inefficient to do so, so almost nobody does it. You'll get far greater damage down-range by firing 2+1 and it will more than compensate for that missing 10 pinpoint on a single component.

I also have a TDR-9S. I can't say I've ever alpha'd with it. The ghost and resulting shorter shooting duration are not worth the extra damage.

[KuroNyra]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 January 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

And then you do it again and you have to wait. The point wasn't that it can't be done, but that's it's wholly inefficient to do so, so almost nobody does it. You'll get far greater damage down-range by firing 2+1 and it will more than compensate for that missing 10 pinpoint on a single component.

I also have a TDR-9S. I can't say I've ever alpha'd with it. The ghost and resulting shorter shooting duration are not worth the extra damage.

What I do?

Alpha on target, then chan firing on the damaged component.
Destroyed multiple mech that way, including Timber Wolves.


If I alpha with my Awesome. I can't even chain fire my PPC, If I alpha with my Warhawk, I shut down because I exceeded the heat limit.

Edited by KuroNyra, 04 January 2015 - 11:28 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

I just start out with straight 2 + 1. I can fire for longer than I could if I started out with an alpha, which means I can A.) compensate for more misses if I have them and B.) have room in my heat-sinks to combat other targets without disengaging to cool down, first.

I'm really not debating how powerful the TDR-9S is, though I think it's actually the cool-down and velocity buffs that are making it such a killer. PPCs every 2.4 seconds with the module, travelling at 1208 m/s and carrying max damage over a distance of 892 m? Pretty damn gross. If you jack up the heat again, it doesn't really change much. It can still smack you twice in quick succession with two per volley even at 15 heat, with only a very brief wait for a third shot. That's 60 damage, likely on a single component, in a small, ~ 8 second window. With 12 people running that, it'll still drop you dead pretty damn quick.

[Yokaiko]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 January 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

I just start out with straight 2 + 1. I can fire for longer than I could if I started out with an alpha, which means I can A.) compensate for more misses if I have them and B.) have room in my heat-sinks to combat other targets without disengaging to cool down, first.

I'm really not debating how powerful the TDR-9S is, though I think it's actually the cool-down and velocity buffs that are making it such a killer. PPCs every 2.4 seconds with the module, travelling at 1208 m/s and carrying max damage over a distance of 892 m? Pretty damn gross. If you jack up the heat again, it doesn't really change much. It can still smack you twice in quick succession with two per volley even at 15 heat, with only a very brief wait for a third shot. That's 60 damage, likely on a single component, in a small, ~ 8 second window. With 12 people running that, it'll still drop you dead pretty damn quick.

Funny enough I just dropped an -9S with a LPL thud, face to face .....even when I was rocking an XL

Its not even close to mech jesus people.

[Y E O N N E]

It's not a god-'Mech. It's team co-ordination along with min-maxing meta-builds that are just annihilating people. You can run around with 12 guys in Timberwolves with two ERPPCs and achieve similar results.

I watched a 12-man from the 228th play yesterday against a 12-man from CGBI. Individually, they weren't even firing the ERPPCs fast enough that they would overheat without the quirks. They were behind cover for 4 or 5 seconds, popped out to take the shot, then returned. That's more than enough time to cool ERPPCs with the number of heat-sinks they require. CGBI actually gave them a fight, though, making them work for those first three generators. CGBI was not running min-max with PP FLD, they were using lasers. Lasers gave PPCs a hard fight. That's pretty good. CGBI actually even started the game with the upper hand, slaughtering TDRs quickly, but they lost their aggression and that allowed the 228th to take up good shooting positions and whittle them down.

So, ultimately, I think the TDR-9S needs a little tweaking. 35-40% heat reduction instead of 50% would do the trick. So would reducing the cool-down reduction to nothing. However, it isn't an indestructible Jesus-'Mech.

[KuroNyra]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 January 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

So, ultimately, I think the TDR-9S needs a little tweaking. 35-40% heat reduction instead of 50% would do the trick. So would reducing the cool-down reduction to nothing. However, it isn't an indestructible Jesus-'Mech.

It's basicly what has been said countless of time. But "nooooo". Thunderbolt and his quircks are fine. Clans are op blablabla.

[Shredhead]

So, clans supposedly have nothing comparable to the 9S, yes?
The real comp 9S build btw
How about this?
Ermahgerd a clan 65 tonner that is up to par with the 9S and has ECM

And btw, nobody fires all 3 ERPPCs at once because hit reg. So it's 2-1, about 3 times on sulphur and you're down to firing the single pep only or retreat to cool down. A bit more sustained fire on boreal. Get to 400 meters with clan mechs and you outdamage the 9S with everything bar SRMs. Get real.

[Brody319]

Shredhead, on 04 January 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

So, clans supposedly have nothing comparable to the 9S, yes?
The real comp 9S build btw
How about this?
Ermahgerd a clan 65 tonner that is up to par with the 9S and has ECM

And btw, nobody fires all 3 ERPPCs at once because hit reg. So it's 2-1, about 3 times on sulphur and you're down to firing the single pep only or retreat to cool down. A bit more sustained fire on boreal. Get to 400 meters with clan mechs and you outdamage the 9S with everything bar SRMs. Get real.

Doesn't fire as fast, Ammo reliant, Hardpoints aren't as high up. Also pretty sure most 9S are running a smaller engine and more DHS.

[Shredhead]

Brody319, on 04 January 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

Doesn't fire as fast, Ammo reliant, Hardpoints aren't as high up. Also pretty sure most 9S are running a smaller engine and more DHS.

Doesn't matter, doesn't matter, they are at cockpit height. No, that is the comp build. All other builds are inefficient.

[R Razor]

Clan tears seem to be getting saltier and saltier as the day progresses.............and when they can't come up with any VALID reason to back their asinine assertion that the Thud 9S is OP they resort to personal attacks.......they've held the advantage with their broken OP crap for so long that facing an enemy on even ground has them screaming like a cat with its tail stuck under a rocking chair..........I freaking LOVE IT.

[Davers]

Roughneck45, on 03 January 2015 - 06:19 AM, said:

I do think its weird that it got PPC buffs instead of ER LL or something because reinforcing the awesome as a PPC mech would have been cool.

But really, a 3 PPC mech is OP? I don't think so. Don't trade shots at range with someone who has better aim than you do.

Why don't we just ask PGI to buff the Awesome to be better instead of nerving the Thud?

[R Razor]

Davers, on 04 January 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

Why don't we just ask PGI to buff the Awesome to be better instead of nerving the Thud?

Because that would give the Clans TWO mechs to worry about instead of one........you think the crying is bad now just imagine what it'd be like then. After all, the IS doesn't deserve any mech that come close to matching anything in the "Holy Trinity", just ask them, they'll tell ya.

[Y E O N N E]

Shredhead, on 04 January 2015 - 02:38 PM, said:

Doesn't matter, doesn't matter, they are at cockpit height. No, that is the comp build. All other builds are inefficient.

That is the comp build according to whom?

[Ultimax]

Brody319, on 04 January 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

Doesn't fire as fast, Ammo reliant, Hardpoints aren't as high up. Also pretty sure most 9S are running a smaller engine and more DHS.

Yeonne Greene, on 04 January 2015 - 03:00 PM, said:

That is the comp build according to whom?

He's in 228th, I think he has a clear view on what comp builds and comp play is like.


And Brody, the Hell Bringer's hardpoints are very high, trying to pretend they aren't sniping mounts just makes you look silly. The Hell Bringer is an excellent sniper.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 04 January 2015 - 03:06 PM.

[Brody319]

Ultimatum X, on 04 January 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

He's in 228th, I think he has a clear view on what comp builds and comp play is like.


And Brody, the Hell Bringer's hardpoints are very high, trying to pretend they aren't sniping mounts just makes you look silly. The Hell Bringer is an excellent sniper.

They aren't as high. 9S has to expose like 10 pixels to be able to shoot.


Look, Look at the location of those hard points. FAR lower than the 9S.

[Ultimax]

KuroNyra, on 04 January 2015 - 03:07 PM, said:

Having a 65ton mech not build for boating er ppc being more efficient than a assault mech designed for boating PPC is illogical.
But I won't be surprise if you still fail to understand that.

No, PGI's team recognized that the IS was desperate for a few mid-tonnage mechs (read, 65 tons) to help fill drop decks and gave strong quirks to mechs that were T5 due to so many other design issues.


Just as the clans have Storm Crows, Hell Bringers and Timber Wolves to fit into those efficient deck designs, the IS has those Thunderbolts and those...oh wait, yeah it's mostly Thunderbolts.

[KuroNyra]

Ultimatum X, on 04 January 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

He's in 228th, I think he has a clear view on what comp builds and comp play is like.


And Brody, the Hell Bringer's hardpoints are very high, trying to pretend they aren't sniping mounts just makes you look silly. The Hell Bringer is an excellent sniper.

Hellbringer hardpoint make him him for firing up the hill.
But boating large laser and PPC? Not really, thanks to the extreme heat + the head who only have 1 slot. Clan PPC need 2 at least.

[R Razor]

KuroNyra, on 04 January 2015 - 03:07 PM, said:

You have really become a pro for missing wholes point and sayin BS continusly.
What we need is to make all mech on both side efficient enought to be a threat for all the rest WITHOUT having mech who are above the rest AND quircks who are logical.

Having a 65ton mech not build for boating er ppc being more efficient than a assault mech designed for boating PPC is illogical.
But I won't be surprise if you still fail to understand that.

Fail is the only thin you seem good at.

As I said, no real argument so resort to personal attacks.............

The point is quite clear, you whine because you no longer have sole possession of a long range capable heavy that has some survivability and speed to back up that firepower. Since you don't, you come on here crying for Nerfs, and when people point out that all you are doing is whining, you resort to personal attacks.