58 replies to this topic

[cSand]

Blueduck, on 03 January 2015 - 08:02 PM, said:

Agreed. There is nothing wrong with a bit of banter and such. Its when I see people calling the new people names and making fun of them I get annoyed; its not going to get any fun if we don't get people to play the game with us.

Ahh yes

the elitist mouthbreathers.


Unfortunate side-effect of the internet in general of course. Don't be too hard on them.... their e-words are generally all they have. Keep that in mind and any annoyance at what they say is replaced with pity

[TLBFestus]

Wow Blueduck, are you sure you are in an organized team? Because honestly, most of my encounters with 12 mans have been on the HoL (House of Lords) variety where they are extremely immature.

Well, that's not entirely true. HoL level of immaturity is at a level all it's own.

[hybrid black]

Blueduck, on 03 January 2015 - 06:30 PM, said:

I understand that there is some genuine frustration around here and in game recently. Certainly both IS and Clan pilots have had their annoyances with the maps and balance but the toxicity has just been increasing exponentially.

In game today I played with a team of PUGs that were trashed talked and stomped into the ground by a competitive team that frankly should have shown extreme sportsmanship. As an example in my unit we let randoms open the door when they are really having issues and encourage them to try again or join a unit. Is it really that rewarding to completely stomp and humiliate new and random people?

Likewise on here and in game no one is sympathetic to the other sides view in that:

1) Is it really fair or fun to take snipe a team to death with nothing but ppcs

2) or to counter this by doing nothing but 4 groups of 12 man stormcrow rushes?

Are you really that biased or frankly unsportsmanlike to see that its fun when both sides have a fair chance to win? Do we really have to call each other names and curse at them over the forums which simply shows how insignificant and dumb we are?

Consider this, if you keep smashing people in one sided victories and humiliating new players, there isn't going to be anyone to play with. Meaning all this work you put into the game will be completely fruitless.

With that, perhaps we could all try a little bit harder to think what is best for the game rather than just our win count. Try to think what will make it most fun and fair rather than just what gets us more kills.

part of playing is bringing the right mechs to work with your group, no one loses on purposes and thats what your asking people to do

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

TLBFestus, on 03 January 2015 - 08:09 PM, said:

Wow Blueduck, are you sure you are in an organized team? Because honestly, most of my encounters with 12 mans have been on the HoL (House of Lords) variety where they are extremely immature.

Well, that's not entirely true. HoL level of immaturity is at a level all it's own.

Oh yeah, HOL, I remember them. We were trying a new strategy when they bumped into us. Real jerks; we lost but honestly we were just trying out new ideas and tactics. Mocked us the whole time.

My unit is not a group of saints of course, we have our bad days. But I can say most of us genuinely feel bad when we roll a PUG unit. We try to encourage them a bit; some of them take it really hard. Its not very fair when a lot of us have fully modded mechs and some of the new players have problems turning.

Hopefully the dev fixes things a bit.

Edited by Blueduck, 03 January 2015 - 08:30 PM.

[InspectorG]

Blueduck, on 03 January 2015 - 07:52 PM, said:

Sorry my friend, the numbers don't bode well for you. Look at the number of people playing CW, only teams a few pugs. Think about that, the number of players is in the hundreds.

And that is the point, its not any fun to be humiliated and pissed on by the competition. This is what people do for fun; this is not my job. If I am beaten up and abused I'm going to say to hell with it and flip to another game.

PGI knows how many Whales they need to cater too. Many 'average' players dont spend $, so matters little to PGI.

Officially: im not for overly rude trash talk, there are some kids who play(the may be the worst offenders though). Some of it is RP. Sure. But All Chat is voluntary, you can just turn it off.(default setting?)
I went to private art school, so people berating me is a class i already passed. You grow skin and learn to use an xacto knife...

As far as 'Numbers', PGI knows them, we do not.
Trying to guess any trends on @ 1 month of play of a feature surprise released during Xmas holiday where people have other obligations/or more free time. Good luck.

PGI's life depends on those numbers and trends. They will see to the Whales and tryhards first. Kids begging their mom for money and casuals second. The rest of the freebie player base is really just peer-to-peer advertising and trending data.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

hybrid black, on 03 January 2015 - 08:23 PM, said:

part of playing is bringing the right mechs to work with your group, no one loses on purposes and thats what your asking people to do

I understand what you're saying my friend, but we still win most of our games. There are just a few tactics we don't employ, such as mass stormcrow rushing.

In regards to PUGs we really try to give them a chance to at least fight back and get some kills and money.

I honestly feel really bad when we completely decimate a PUG group.

As another example we tried some very heavy gauss play about a month ago; it was completely devastating but also not very fair. Our favorite strategy is a straight up brawl death match early on followed by late game gen runs.

It may not win us every game but we always have a blast win or lose and the opposing team generally does too.

And that frankly is what it should be all about as this is not a job at the end of the day.

Thanks for your input btw

[volon12]

what gets my goat is peeps seeing a 12man and giving up right then and there. really? seen many a 12man fall to pugs except when peeps just dont try. sad really.

[Doc Sav]

Mainly the trash I see talked comes from the idiots in PUGs blaming the PUG they are on for not carrying them to a victory.

I don't have a solution. Really, the people I enjoy the most are the ones that make me laugh and enjoy the game, win or lose.To me, these are the "cool" players I admire. If other people find them equally agreeable, hopefully the example will carry to more teams. Otherwise, run your mouth as much as you want. It doesn't bother me much at all, and I (perhaps optimistically) doubt it bothers others enough to make them quit.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

InspectorG, on 03 January 2015 - 08:26 PM, said:

PGI knows how many Whales they need to cater too. Many 'average' players dont spend $, so matters little to PGI.

Officially: im not for overly rude trash talk, there are some kids who play(the may be the worst offenders though). Some of it is RP. Sure. But All Chat is voluntary, you can just turn it off.(default setting?)
I went to private art school, so people berating me is a class i already passed. You grow skin and learn to use an xacto knife...

As far as 'Numbers', PGI knows them, we do not.
Trying to guess any trends on @ 1 month of play of a feature surprise released during Xmas holiday where people have other obligations/or more free time. Good luck.

PGI's life depends on those numbers and trends. They will see to the Whales and tryhards first. Kids begging their mom for money and casuals second. The rest of the freebie player base is really just peer-to-peer advertising and trending data.

My friend, I completed a physics doctorate program over a 6 year period while teaching. In terms of demoralizing art school has nothing on that. I was around when 1/4 of engineering classes were demolished by the curve and people learned they were not coming back next year. I learned over this time that I had developed a thick skin but that most things in life aren't worth being an a$$ about.

And I don't know if whales drive this game. A lot of people in my unit might spend $20 bucks once or twice, or buy some premium time.

They have some mechanics that allow for smaller transactions.

Edited by Blueduck, 03 January 2015 - 08:35 PM.

[Threat Doc]

Blueduck, on 03 January 2015 - 06:30 PM, said:

I understand that there is some genuine frustration around here and in game recently. Certainly both IS and Clan pilots have had their annoyances with the maps and balance but the toxicity has just been increasing exponentially.

In game today I played with a team of PUGs that were trashed talked and stomped into the ground by a competitive team that frankly should have shown extreme sportsmanship. As an example in my unit we let randoms open the door when they are really having issues and encourage them to try again or join a unit. Is it really that rewarding to completely stomp and humiliate new and random people?

Likewise on here and in game no one is sympathetic to the other sides view in that:

1) Is it really fair or fun to take snipe a team to death with nothing but ppcs

2) or to counter this by doing nothing but 4 groups of 12 man stormcrow rushes?

Are you really that biased or frankly unsportsmanlike to see that its fun when both sides have a fair chance to win? Do we really have to call each other names and curse at them over the forums which simply shows how insignificant and dumb we are?

Consider this, if you keep smashing people in one sided victories and humiliating new players, there isn't going to be anyone to play with. Meaning all this work you put into the game will be completely fruitless.

With that, perhaps we could all try a little bit harder to think what is best for the game rather than just our win count. Try to think what will make it most fun and fair rather than just what gets us more kills.

All of this comes from game design, actually. It allows buttholes to flourish by allowing un-checked 'Mech customization, the purchase of more than a single 'Mech, and the fact that there is no reason to be sportsmanlike, no honor system, no violations punishments, only encouragements to act in a better way, which doesn't mean jack ****, frankly. Anyone who plays Clans is not tested or chosen for their ability to fight like a Clanner, and then you have the entirety of the CW system already so backwards that, again, this is Heavy Gear with BattleTech names and likenesses. Oh, and let's not forget the absolute lack of any system to deal with mercenary units, to separate them from the various faction that are out there, or God forbid to set them in a faction of their own. There are no contracts and, according to these guys from the launch party in September 2013, there will be no actual game-based contracts. There's nothing to compete over, nothing to strategize about, or set various drops to take a planet the right way instead of taking it through a continuous series of bashes, and there's no reason to be tactical about any of it. There are no true bonuses and penalties, except "Oh, hey, House Liao needs help, so contract money is going up such and so", and basically this game is beginning to go sour to me, in large detail.

There is absolutely no restraint in the areas there should be, and absolute total restraint in areas that should be up to the players to decide how they run. There's a system of matching single players for Chess being used for the entirety of match making, and there is no distinction between 'Mechs that are used as blunt instruments and those that are used as far more, so that a 35 ton Raven 2X is considered to be the very same as the Raven 3L, when the 2X is so very superior in its abilities to the 3L. This is just one example.

So, you want people to be nice to one another, you want the vitriol to stop, then get PGI to get off their lumps and create the BattleTech game we should have, in accordance with the books, the game they said they were going to make, instead of the monstrosity there presently is, and that vitriol might just calm down a bit.

'Nuff frickin' said!

[BellatorMonk]

I don't even need to read any posts here. MWO has been like that since week 2 of beta. Frankly most decent players are simply fed up and disgusted with people who can't grab basic strategy in a strategy shooter.

That is all..simple.

[HBizzle]

Blueduck your unit talked **** to us on the forums when we attacked Wolf from Ghost Bear and then whined in game when we beat them with the mechs you are describing, after you gloated on the forums. So any beef between us was started by the members of your unit.

My last real match tonight was against a Star Wolves 8 man and they complained the whole time. We didn't zerg, we didnt use some sploit, but your guys claimed we did. We did beat their tail and took our time doing it.

When we joined Steiner we did not attack Wolf at all, but your unit, CWDG, and CWI all attacked us yesterday and continued today. It was your choice to do so, and also to most likely attack CGB, and for that we took a planet from you today, while Wolf got absolutely nothing.

Like I said in the Wolf forums you should have focused on FRR, but you guys didnt listen.

Edited by HBizzle, 03 January 2015 - 11:35 PM.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

HBizzle, on 03 January 2015 - 08:54 PM, said:

Blueduck your unit talked **** to us on the forums when we attacked Wolf from Ghost Bear and then whined in game when we beat them with the mechs you are describing, after you gloated on the forums. So any beef between us was started by the members of your unit.

My last real match tonight was against a Star Wolves 8 man and they complained the whole time. We didn't zerg, we didnt use some sploit, but your guys claimed we did. We did beat their tail and take our time doing it.

When we joined Steiner we did not attack Wolf at all, but your unit, CWDG, and CWI all attacked us yesterday and continued today. It was your choice to do so, and also to most likely attack CGB, and for that we took a planet from you today, while Wolf got absolutely nothing.

Like I said in the Wolf forums you should have focused on FRR, but you guys didnt listen.

:-/

My competitive horseplay was tagged in CW role sir; nothing more. Take off your little Merc hat for a moment, that is not what I'm talking about. In regards to my unit, many are composed of new players and many are very frustrated at the PPC meta at the moment so expect trash talk from some of our guys when you use tactics we regard as dirty as a 12/4 stormcrow rushes.

This has nothing to do with CW and the banter that it entails but rather how new players are treated in game and some very very nasty forum posts directed at people personally recently. It is also tied to the fact that many people seem to want IS or clan to simply roll the other side over. I genuinely feel that the current PPC meta is a disaster that was gotten rid of 12 months ago for a very good reason, but I also understand that IS needs some more varied range perks. It seems that many people on the forums and game don't want the game to be fun for everyone.

(P.S. Back to the CW hat now; in regards to rolling us you were never able to do it while you were Ghost Bear. Perhaps it has more to do with the type of perked mechs you are rolling now. Also there seems to be some genuine confusion from Wolf in terms of who the hell we are supposed to hit as both FRR and Steiner seem to be fighting.)

Edited by Blueduck, 03 January 2015 - 09:07 PM.

[Tristan Winter]

@OP: Sometimes, turning chat off is very refreshing. MWO has always been surprisingly toxic for a game with considerably higher average age than most FPS games. CW can sometimes make things worse, just through basic human tendencies as explained by social psychology / sociology. But it can also make things better, as big units with benevolent officers tend to have a positive effect on their members.

cSand, on 03 January 2015 - 08:08 PM, said:

the elitist mouthbreathers.

I'm impressed that you managed to display hypocrisy in as little as two words. That takes skill.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 03 January 2015 - 09:06 PM, said:

@OP: Sometimes, turning chat off is very refreshing. MWO has always been surprisingly toxic for a game with considerably higher average age than most FPS games. CW can sometimes make things worse, just through basic human tendencies as explained by social psychology / sociology. But it can also make things better, as big units with benevolent officers tend to have a positive effect on their members.


I'm impressed that you managed to display hypocrisy in as little as two words. That takes skill.

Hmmm, perhaps I shall try that at some point. Tx for the advice.

[HBizzle]

Blueduck, on 03 January 2015 - 08:58 PM, said:

:-/

My competitive horseplay was tagged in CW role sir; nothing more. Take off your little Merc hat for a moment, that is not what I'm talking about. In regards to my unit, many are composed of new players and many are very frustrated at the PPC meta at the moment.

This has nothing to do with CW and the banter that it entails but rather the how new players are treated in game and some very very nasty forum posts directed at people personally recently.

(P.S. Back to the CW hat now; in regards to rolling us you were never able to do it while you were Ghost Bear. Perhaps it has more to do with the type of perked mechs you are rolling now. )

Fine. Mercstar is willing to be courteous to your members if they are willing to reciprocate.

Your members claimed the same about us in the drop, but we moved to Steiner to go into Jade Falcon at first, but now you guys are in our sights as well.

[Doc Sav]

And please, no freaking honor or rep or community judging system in game. Other games have taught me those are pretty much useful only to be abused.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

HBizzle, on 03 January 2015 - 09:15 PM, said:

Fine. Mercstar is willing to be courteous to your members if they are willing to reciprocate.

Your members claimed the same about us in the drop, but we moved to Steiner to go into Jade Falcon at first, but now you guys are in our sights as well.

I was in a 12 vs 12 man against merc star earlier. We still gave a GG but make no mistake we do feel that a team of 10+ ppc spamming thunderbolts is a cheap way to play. Effective but cheap.

Our unit is about fighting battles where both sides have the chance to win in a brawl. We want everyone to have fun and if we lose oh well, it was a good fight. This is the reason we don't do 12/4 stormcrow rushes. Just not a fun way to play.

In regards to the rest of my unit; some of them are very angry about the ppc spam right now. Most will still be polite but I cannot make promises for everyone.

[InspectorG]

Blueduck, on 03 January 2015 - 08:34 PM, said:

My friend, I completed a physics doctorate program over a 6 year period while teaching. In terms of demoralizing art school has nothing on that. I was around when 1/4 of engineering classes were demolished by the curve and people learned they were not coming back next year. I learned over this time that I had developed a thick skin but that most things in life aren't worth being an a$$ about.

And I don't know if whales drive this game. A lot of people in my unit might spend $20 bucks once or twice, or buy some premium time.

They have some mechanics that allow for smaller transactions.

HAHA

I dont know how a Doctorate in Physics compares to Art skool, likely harder(?), but yes, from experience, Teaching develops a nice callous...
I had to come to the sad realization that i had to be depressed to do my best artwork...but i learned from it, lols.

Now my understanding from what some of the more 'comp/tryhards' have said is MWO is a niche franchise and there are prolly around 1000 people who spent/spend $1000+. World wide. Many are average who spend for entertainment. Some are the comp players who have a deal/endorsement/whatever with PGI. Reddit could prolly supply more info than I.
I personally have not spent anywhere near that much. Im south of $100.

Smaller transactions are nice but i think that if they reduced the cost of the cosmetics, more people would buy them. Ive played PSO2 and, there are many Americans who went through the hassle to get Yen to buy tons of cosmetic stuff that didnt alter gameplay. Pretty sure thats an untapped market here.

Back to topic:

I think the business model is eared to comps...in the long run?

Trash talk is, unfortunately, part of competitive endeavors regardless of gaming/sports/community bingo/etc.
Im just glad PGI gave me the option to cut All Chat. I keep it on, but it is there.

[Jman5]

In my experience It's not the premades, but the PUG teams that have been absolutely littered with bad mouthing jerks. What's more is that I'm starting to see pug players literally give up less than 5 minutes into a match and screw their team.

I played a CW game yesterday with all pugs and on wave 1, I had a guy cuss us out and then ragequit. He was quickly followed by 2 more. So we're down to 9 players against 12 for essentially the entire game. The worst thing is that if these idiots had just stayed we would have likely won. It was a close match despite being down a quarter of our team.

I really am not bothered by opponents trash talking me. I have an ego the size of a whale, so I can laugh it off. What grates on me are teammates who trash talk their own team and then give up on them. Some people straight up disconnect, some people start TKing, and some people just suicide through all their mechs.

PGI needs to deal with these people because they are ruining the experience for 23 other people. They either need to implement a muting policy, or start warning/banning them