72 replies to this topic

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

why not have all mech do the same damage no matter what they have quiped.

[Mercules]

Praetor Knight, on 06 January 2015 - 12:59 PM, said:

LRMs are all or nothing right now, and not very effective unless boated right now anyway. That screams it needs attention to me.

This is something people don't understand to not be true. If you want to focus on LRMs then yes you want to bring a LOT but that would be because you have already decided to make them your main weapon system. Just like if you wanted to focus on PPCs you would bring things that compliment PPCs.

Look at the Clan mechs. Some of them can go big with LRMs like a Stormcrow that can bring nothing but LRMs and still be a solid mech. Or most of the Clan team can each bring an LRM launcher or two and lay down crippling support fire when they don't have direct LoS on a mech. I've seen a few team games where a 12 man has had every mech bring some sort of LRM, even a 5, and melt mechs that ended up brawling because they could focus all that fire on one mech. This would often lead to them having a slight lead in the kill count.

Praetor Knight, on 06 January 2015 - 12:59 PM, said:

And aren't you tired of seeing Assaults spamming LRMs and often from the back ranks somewhere? I am.

Why? That means they aren't on the front line doing anything effective with ACs/Lasers/SRMs/Gauss/PPCs. Let them lob missiles that are not going to hit any but the foolish and waste time and tonnage. About all those accomplish is area denial, which is valuable mind you, but as a threat I don't mind them at all. I simple flank them and kill them in close.

Praetor Knight, on 06 January 2015 - 12:59 PM, said:

So I could live with making LRMs Dead Fire as a quick short-term fix. It works for SRMs so why not? Better than giving everything more AMS and ECM anyway.

So LRMs are just bigger and worse functioning SRMs? No... LRMs are capable of indirect fire at long range. They bring an important aspect to the game and should remain.

Brody319, on 06 January 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:

I mean most lights only mount it because they have the space but not because they are going to change the fate of the battle.

Trust me... no Light mounts it "because they have the space". There are weapons, heatsinks, and other things we could put into the mech, but if it can carry ECM it's value goes way up so the ECM gets put in before an extra ton of ammo or lasers or DHS. Lights squeeze every ton they can to try and be effective, if something isn't super useful it goes away. Being able to make your team invisible to sensors is valuable. If scouting having yourself not easily noticed is so useful. Then the enemy not being able to view your status quickly and blocking locks from missiles is just gravy on top of that.

[Screech]

Giving ECM to all mechs would force them to balance it.

[Mechteric]

Screech, on 07 January 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

Giving ECM to all mechs would force them to balance it.

No, it would force everyone to take a broken ECM and never balance it since they wouldn't need to.


The first and best fix they could do would be so simple, just take away GECM's "Angel" radar bubble, then create a new Angel ECM suite which you can put into the ECM hardpoint as a choice.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 07 January 2015 - 07:59 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 06 January 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

why not have all mech do the same damage no matter what they have quiped.

guess what in MW 3 all mechs were the same except: Clanmechs ES + endo needed only 7 slots instead of 14.

the rest was entirely only their shape and weight.

[Chagatay]

Well here is my take on the equipping of AMS (I think Kiiyor made a similar post):

Rules:
Light mech (no AMS*)
Medium mech (no AMS)
Heavy mech (AMS**)
Assault mech (2x AMS, if possible)
-or-
I am new (AMS)

*Sometimes I still take it if I want to run a supporter build
** Depends on speed really as well as hardpoints for clan. Summoner though fast should IMHO carry 1 or 2 if possible as Timberwolf needs to make too many sacrifices. Clams, in general, have poor AMS choices.

Edited by Chagatay, 07 January 2015 - 08:12 AM.

[Screech]

CapperDeluxe, on 07 January 2015 - 07:59 AM, said:

No, it would force everyone to take a broken ECM and never balance it since they wouldn't need to.

Why would I need to take ECM if 11 of my teammates have it in its current form? Would be a waste of tonnage. Never will happen but making ECM universal would necessitate nerfing ECM, like removing the radar bubble.

Trying to balance ECM while using ECM as a means to balance mechs is the largest issue with ECM and why it can never be fixed. A unicorn is will always be better then a horse.

[Fate 6]

The way LRMs are currently implemented they HAVE to be indirect fire support. The travel times for missiles is insanely long, to the point where I rarely take significant damage from LRMs. If I do get smashed by LRMs I don't blame LRM boats but my own crappy playing. Sure they are annoying because sometimes they shoot you and you can't shoot back, but you have to realize the opposite is also true where a sniper can hit the LRM boat and go back into cover before the missiles can travel.

To better add consistency, I agree with the post where they should maybe be mostly direct fire (unless someone uses Tag/Narc) and have a massive speed increase. They don't even have to be supersonic missiles, they could be slower than PPCs, but they would need something to make up for the fact that you have to gain a lock first. ECM also makes balancing them very hard - ECM would need a massive nerf if LRMs are made direct fire only.

Chagatay, on 07 January 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

Well here is my take on the equipping of AMS (I think Kiiyor made a similar post):

Rules:
Light mech (no AMS*)
Medium mech (no AMS)
Heavy mech (AMS**)
Assault mech (2x AMS, if possible)
-or-
I am new (AMS)

*Sometimes I still take it if I want to run a supporter build
** Depends on speed really as well as hardpoints for clan. Summoner though fast should IMHO carry 1 or 2 if possible as Timberwolf needs to make too many sacrifices. Clams, in general, have poor AMS choices.

Kit Fox can take AMS if supporting, most other clan mechs should never take it unless they have 2 or more. Nova makes an ok AMS support with 2, for example.

[Gaius Cavadus]

They really need to work on making BAP better. I know in TT that ECM defeats BAP but ECM should work something like Warlock or Juke boxes mounted on HMMWVs. These boxes generated huge white noise RFID, cellular, and other signals which would drown out any and all non-encrypted devices in the area which would prevent remote detonation of IEDs. The low signal business demonstrates this well.

BAP in this game is awful and pointless. BAP should hard counter ECM in disrupt mode but be defeated by ECM in counter mode.

Command Console + BAP should completely defeat a single ECM. multiple ECMs stacking up against this combo should reduce it's strength.

Maybe even tie IFF broadcasting to friendly units to the command console so BAP would only affect the unit in which it's mounted.

Edited by Cavadus, 07 January 2015 - 12:23 PM.

[wanderer]

Oddly enough, the whole "noise" thing is basically what everyone's broadcasting.

Mechs have horrid sensors in part because the average Battletech field is chock-full of sensor-garbling garbage being churned out on all sides. ECM is just the "even worse" part.

But then, MWO ECM is the Jesusbox. If we could all cloak ourselves in one, it'd be literally too good not to install. The only way it'd be decent is if the effects were reduced- rather than invisible, increased acquisition/target data/lockon times and reduced tracking, not *poof* ninja vanish.

[HARDKOR]

I'd prefer it if we just reset all the guns back to MW4 where they all worked and weren't continuously redesigned into clumsy nerf guns to appease whiners. The only thing I prefer about this version is that it's still go a few people playing it and the graphics are a bit better. Hostage IP makes baby jesus cry.

[RiggsIron]

627, on 05 January 2015 - 02:00 AM, said:

That is wrong.


For the Lurm boat matches... be happy that LRMs are a thing in our elo bracket. Get better and you'll see fewer LRMs but more meta builds with pinpoint alpha from 30 to 60 damage.

LRMs are a valid weapon in this game like all others. Don't complain and adapt.

Typical troll response.
"learn to play noob"

Try some logic before replying. Or rational thinking of some sort.

Ursh, on 05 January 2015 - 04:07 AM, said:

Not being able to install ecm on any mech when you can change the internal structure, power plant, armor, and fit an AC20 in a space where a machine gun was built to go seems pretty stupid, honestly.

Yeah sticking to a 'lore' convention from 30 years ago that was built around a balanced game that doesnt exist in the same form in MWO - it is absurd and pointless to keep some but not ALL aspects.

Or else - add back in random hit locations if people are so set on 'the rules'.

Never see anyone argue for that little bit. Seems to slip most people's minds when they argue about balance.

[RiggsIron]

Rehl, on 05 January 2015 - 02:11 AM, said:

Get a target dep mod? I know the OP referenced a lack of cover, but it really doesn't take much to break LOS for a moment. I know that since I've installed target dep mods on my Fang and Wang (haha, I'm a poet and didn't know it), LRMs really aren't much of an issue at all. Now, target dep+seismic are standard issue on my most frequent rides.

Stopping to reconfigure every single mech every single battle? Yeah thats fun - and ignores the point of the OP.

Or - I can somehow find 120 MILLION c-bills to equip the mechs I like to play regularly ...because modules are retardedly expensive. (but hey its a pay to win game right?)

Raggedyman, on 05 January 2015 - 04:57 AM, said:

How about "because tactical limitations and not being able to go in with everything on your Mech is a core component of the game?" or "because in one simple action you would make all LRMs (a whole category of weapon) almost useless, so the next step would be a massive nerf on whatever then becomes the moan of the week until we are all just throwing cocktail sticks at each other?" or just "LRMs are part of the game, learn to counter or avoid them"?

Or "learn to understand an argument before posting?"

[RiggsIron]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 January 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

Yes cause missiles should never be able to hit us cause we have skillzz. When you get caught in the open or have minimal cover you should be hit with missiles and Ballistics and lasers.

You wanna play a game that is based on futuristic wars and then people complain cause its rough.

So direct fire missiles would not hit people? Do you also miss with all other direct fire weapons too?
Because that argument makes sense to you right? Yeah...

And...Battletech is an absurd form of combat that is designed, and balanced, around specific limitations to be fun so players can bash each other with mechs. It was also designed before people realized how powerful computers would quickly become, and remote weapons say.

not sure if you are aware of many, MANY types of CURRENT technologies that would render mechs ineffective to the extreme.

So if you are arguing for rules to be as they are - you should start a petition for random hit locations also. Right? Cause thats also part of the rules.

...or do you ignore that too.

Yosharian, on 05 January 2015 - 05:24 AM, said:

You must be joking. Everyone would carry it.

yeah, everyone having to rely on shooting things they can see? Instead of firing streams of missiles over hills at targets that cant shoot back?

That would be terrible. I mean you would have to move and stuff. And aim.

You dont like moving and aiming then?

[RiggsIron]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 January 2015 - 05:25 AM, said:

Then the pilot isn't Driving the Assault right MeiSoo. I am that lumbering Assault pilot ans I get out of the rain fairly easy. Unless I am out it the open.

hey another one!
"learn to play noob"

Its awesome how common that argument is.

"unless I am out in the open"...maybe on maps you play on there is wall to wall cover and you can move around with never being exposed?

Could you post a picture of these awesome cover maps?

Joseph Mallan, on 05 January 2015 - 05:34 AM, said:

So... Politely, Learn to play???

If you keep repeating the same thing, does it sounds more logical to you?

While you keep ignoring the actual argument.

MikeBend, on 05 January 2015 - 06:31 AM, said:

Ever tried asking your ECM mechs to stay and cover assaults? Thats what i do most of the time in my RVN-3L. Oh yeah, and its got LRM10 pod too just to add to the rain.

Maybe you dont play in solo queue. Like some posters here that enjoy trolling.

Half the time there are NO mechs with ECM. And not much teamwork.

So...because you dont have a preformed team, with a guaranteed ECM mech that actually plays as a team (as opposed to "Hey im going to solo sniper and run around randomly not covering the team with ECM!")...it is ok to keep an unbalanced system in place?

[RiggsIron]

Mercules, on 05 January 2015 - 06:38 AM, said:

Step 1. L2P
Step 2. (troll)

Funny how the same people keep posting, NEVER address the actual argument - and think they are witty by posting the same crud that has been used for years on dodge actually having an argument.

Having an argument based on logic, or understanding would be too painful a process I guess.

Praetor Knight, on 04 January 2015 - 10:45 PM, said:

I'd rather just get direct fire only LRMs, maybe a speed boost as necessary and a decrease of impulse.



Or limit Lock-On: can't see a mech yourself, don't have a Spotter using TAG or UAV / NARC then you can't get a missile lock.

I'd like to try these out, but adding more AMS slots is possible, the X-5 doesn't have any right now for example.

Indeed. That was the main point.

If PGI is not going to use the balance that was in tabletop...then do something else more extreme like letting everyone take ECM. But fixing the actual weapon would be the best option by far.

Edited by RiggsIron, 07 January 2015 - 09:10 PM.

[RiggsIron]

Screech, on 07 January 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

Why would I need to take ECM if 11 of my teammates have it in its current form? Would be a waste of tonnage. Never will happen but making ECM universal would necessitate nerfing ECM, like removing the radar bubble.

Trying to balance ECM while using ECM as a means to balance mechs is the largest issue with ECM and why it can never be fixed. A unicorn is will always be better then a horse.

Missing the point.

Solo queue you have no guarantees at all about what the rest of the team is going to do.

And even mechs that can equip ECM, only 1 of the multiple models can do it - but you have to level up 3 to master it. So even in a mech that can take it - you have to spend 2/3 your time leveling up non-ECM versions just to get to play the one with it.

at the VERY least - let all mechs of a line be able to equip it. So all Ravens, all Spiders etc.

[Lightfoot]

You can't in MWO. MWO has made ECM too powerful, much more powerful than any Battle Tech description. You could allow Mechs to turn their Radar to Passive Mode, but MWO relies on the mechs to keep Radar active. You have Radar Deprivation Module instead. Technically ECM only works beyond 400 meters, does not prevent missile locks, does not block TAG. That's all MWO.

[Kilo 40]

RiggsIron, on 07 January 2015 - 09:03 PM, said:

hey another one!
"learn to play noob"

Its awesome how common that argument is.

"unless I am out in the open"...maybe on maps you play on there is wall to wall cover and you can move around with never being exposed?

Could you post a picture of these awesome cover maps?

You don't need cover. you just need to break LOS. you can break LOS on every single map.

also if you keep hearing "learn to play" or some variation of it, perhaps there is some truth to it.

and I'm not even going to start on your other comment about you not wanting to equip the Radar dep module for..."reasons".

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Shiroi Tsuki, on 05 January 2015 - 01:40 AM, said:

-ALL, I mean ALL IS Mechs have AMS. There is no reason why you shouldn't be using AMS especially if you're getting annoyed of these Lurms.

no,X-5 does not have that luxury item