83 replies to this topic

[Carpenocturn]

So until you look at the effect ERPPC boating T-Bolts are having I'm not Solo dropping to attack in CW again, ever.

2 or more x3 ERPPC's every 2 seconds sucks when you are on the receiving end, which today has been every match especially against -MS-

Edited by Carpenocturn, 04 January 2015 - 11:17 PM.

[D A T A]

tdr 3erppc is game breaker and op
IN COMMUNITY WARFARE

nerf heat eff bonus and recycle bonus

Edited by IL MECHWARRIOR, 05 January 2015 - 06:30 AM.

[BaconCouch]

Sweet god in heaven this needs to happen, the sheer amount of fire these things put out is absurd. Its not just a burst then they need to cool. Its a hellstorm of ppc screenshake, and then again, and again... ugh

[SemiCharmed]

ER PPC has killed mwo Faction Warefare....

[Maple Nachiman]

Stop complaining, it's no-where near as OP as stormcrow and madcat laser vomit.

[VXJaeger]

Clanners tears are sweeter than honeymead.

[Jody Von Jedi]

Stop your whining. We finally have something to stand toe to toe with the MadCat/Timberwolf.

IS vs Clan is balanced nicely since the IS quirks.

[Chadamir Fitzkrieg]

Seriously...the meta is so dull with the Tbolt 3xERPPC. Oh well.

[EvilCow]

I am unable to reproduce the problem.

Test setup: WinXP SP3, E6600, 4GB RAM, AMD5870, skill.

[loopala]

JTSR, on 05 January 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

everyone should be carrying an ARTY and UAV module for just that use.

happy new year

everyone should be carrying air/arty and uav regardless in CW. to do other wise is foolish.

ok there are a couple of hot setups that may need cool shot...

[fyurian]

Oh god not this again.
I actually agree with the entire IS side on this one.
They have a mech that is range wise an equal with our Twolf laser spam just leave it at that.
I don't feel like denying anyone that tech.
the thunderwub is even better in laser vomiting at close range.

[Mazzyplz]

screw both the TDR AND TBR, give the other mechs some love by nerfing both these piles of JUNK

[Exarch Levin]

The only complaint that I have with the meta T-Bolt is that it ditches the AMS and the dual-AMS was part of the mech's purpose. This makes it taking many a massive LRM volley to be especially painful, though it is poetic justice in a sense.

The T-Bolt 9S needs the PPC tweak to be relevant as otherwise it is a pointless mech. It's clunky, has a very easy to hit profile and otherwise can't pack the weapons to be a brawler or a long-range mech.

[Nightshade24]

Maple Nachiman, on 05 January 2015 - 11:47 AM, said:

Stop complaining, it's no-where near as OP as stormcrow and madcat laser vomit.

yes, because 4 er medium lasers and 2 large pulse lasers on a timberwolf is op...

remind me again how IS mechs can out do those weapons...

TDR-5SS

(nearly same speed as timber, has 2 more medium pulse lasers, better cooling then timberwolf and short range capabilities)


And oh keep in mind the grasshopper which is a faster mech, with jumpjets, most likely have quirks specificly to vomit lasers, and is about faster then a thunderbolt and will most likely have a better hardpoints...

Only massive difference is the large pulse laser range but the better heat eff can mean you can fire at the timberwolf over a time more often with the large pulser lasers then he can to you and thus you out damage him when he's struglging to stay cool...

You ever thought why these 2 mechs laser vomit? because all the other clan equipment isn't that good. Ever see a SSRM 6 stormcrow do good beyond killing that 1 light mech then get rolfstomped by a thunderbolt?

Or the last time yo usaw a non-trial timberwolf use LRM's or a ballistics?

Even mechs like the kitfox which is infamous for it's ballistics and missiles is usually laser vomit.


Thunderbolt 9S firing 3 ER PPC's on chain fire is the same as a Warhawk, a larger mech with a lot more heatsinks... firing 2.
That isn't that big of a number if you compaire 2 and 3 together... but when you need 20 more tons and have more heatsinks then a thunderbolt by quite a lot... things start to look odd.


Let's take clans out off the picture. Thunderbolts are obviously not OP and it's clanners over reacting right?... wrong...


Thunderbolt is a better ER PPC boat then the Battlemaster, Awesome, Catapult K2, and griffin.

All mechs that use 1 ppc (just like a thunderbolt) or boats them.

Tell me when a 65 ton mech that is never seen with over 2 ppc's being a better boat then a ppc boat mech 20 tons bigger then it?



I propose the thunderbolt 9S to have reduced PPC quirks and increase it's ballistics and medium laser abilities and something minor for the missiles.

When quirks forces players to do 100% boat that specific weapon like a firestarter or thunderbolt. That is when something is wrong with the quirk, especially when the mech didn't even boat those weapons to start with.


I honestly think most people over react to the timberwolf and stormcrows. I've never seen anyone use timberwolfs effectively in pug or CW and I own all 3 stormcrows and the best I got out of it is a SRM or LRM platform. with the acception of my LBX 10 stormcrow.


I mean today when I did CW. I've seen at least 5 thunderbolts at any given time on the enemy team. my team? I do not see timberwolfs and stormcrows more then direwolfs and mist lynxes.


Reguardless of "Clan OP" claims (which I disagree with...) the thunderbolt 9S also leaves havoc on the inner sphere verse inner sphere battles and out performs all mechs in ER PPC boating both clan and is.

that is a clear give away. All your other mechs still handle fine against the clans rather thta be crabs, hunchbacks, locusts, or catapults.

But the thunderbolt is just a bit higher then everything else, including the firestarter.

[Mad Porthos]

Actually, it does make a good point that the er ppc x3 build skimps on AMS, rarely having x2 or even x1 ams, let alone ammo, which to them is a weakness due to risk of an ammo explosion. If you could get through thier closeby ecm cloud, missling them would be very viable. But ecm cuts out narcs and if you tag them to get the ecm off, well it doesn't really work since you have then exposed yourself to thier lovely ER PPC spam. Best off if you can, deadfiring at the ridge tops they fire from behind. Steady slow chain fire. If you have not "locked" they get no incoming warning on the missiles and often peek right onto the ridge top to fire, making the summit as the volley lands there. Thing is, alot of people don't like to deadfire. It seems a waste, when you don't have a lock and is only done as a last resort. It can be great for suppression if you have two missile boats willing to target same ridge, but again, most are no longer running missiles in CW.

Thing is, the 3x ER PPC Thunderbolt is rather overkill. You can do nearly as well and much cooler with 2 er ppc, high mounted and some sane back up weapons, ams etc. and have a huge rate of fire still on the er ppc. But many don't have fire discipline and just wish to throw a 30pt alpha, and power down as they back up or fall down a hill etc. Meh.

Oh, as an edit. They DO overheat. Just not nearly so bad as people think a 3 er ppc mech should. Coolshots bail them out sometimes, too.

Edited by Mad Porthos, 06 January 2015 - 02:57 AM.

[Nightshade24]

Mad Porthos, on 06 January 2015 - 02:51 AM, said:

Actually, it does make a good point that the er ppc x3 build skimps on AMS, rarely having x2 or even x1 ams, let alone ammo, which to them is a weakness due to risk of an ammo explosion. If you could get through thier closeby ecm cloud, missling them would be very viable. But ecm cuts out narcs and if you tag them to get the ecm off, well it doesn't really work since you have then exposed yourself to thier lovely ER PPC spam.

Thing is, the 3x ER PPC Thunderbolt is rather overkill. You can do nearly as well and much cooler with 2 er ppc, high mounted and some sane back up weapons, ams etc. and have a huge rate of fire still on the er ppc. But many don't have fire discipline and just wish to throw a 30pt alpha, and power down as they back up or fall down a hill etc. Meh.

Oh, as an edit. They DO overheat. Just not nearly so bad as people think a 3 er ppc mech should. Coolshots bail them out sometimes, too.

they do over heat.

but even against a non-ER PPC clan mech they can often out brawl them (unless its' like a 12 er small laser nova or a direwolf with LBX's, etc). Which is odd.

Which is more odd it has way better quirks and effeciency then the...

Awesome, Warhawk, Adder, Summoner, Catapult K2, etc. Mechs that are famous for the er ppc can't out do a thunderbolt.

[Mad Porthos]

Perhaps the solution might be on this mech a larger general energy weapon bonus, but decreasing the specific er ppc bonus or eliminating it all together. But I think you should consider that they likely made the erppc velocity buff deliberately that good, thinking it would be used on dual er ppc builds in the high mounts, rather than triple builds as we are seeing. The ability to either put the 3rd er ppc in the arm for better aim, or in the highest left side hardpoint under the cockpit is possible entirely because hardpoints don't have "sizes" so they keep ... it seems, forgetting that people will min max something into the ground and get 3 high mounted erppc on the chassis, leaving the low mounted awesome in the dust.

Since geometry can't be changed for the awesome, really it should have similar quirks to what the 9s is getting now and a reduction could happen on the 9s, so that it could manage only 2 er ppc at once. It's a pity they can't set up quirks to effect ONLY CERTAIN SLOTS. That way you could decide things like this... ie. those high mounts on the Thunderbolt 9s will get these great advantages with ER ppc, but if you try to use those energy mounts under the cockpit in the left torso, neh, those buff... medium lasers... or lasers in general. But eh, not to be.

PS. Yeah, those other mechs really are still short changed, that's my own personal misgiving on this. K2, meant to have ppc just gets a slight velocity increase. Oh, and a teensy ballistic range buff for machineguns?!?! Even if you accept that in common usage K2s are often getting autocannons, then they should be giving something better than that to one or the other, not this mishmash. Further more, none of the techs are upgradable... that is, if you have an normal tech item, TL1, and that is a great ppc mech, why can't it be a great ER ppc mech?

You pay the cost of running er ppc, greater heat, so why not have the benefit that is supposedly given that class of weapon, for it's more improved/advanced version. That would make a K2, as it is MEANT to be, or slightly upgraded (er ppc) actually function well as intended.

Edited by Mad Porthos, 06 January 2015 - 03:12 AM.

[Nightshade24]

PGI intended when adding quirks for people to not boat them.

Thunderbolt with just 1 er ppc, firestarter with just 4 small pulse lasers.

Rest of the equipment is users choice.

Sadly it backfired.

This is what happens when you make it have only 1 weapon quirk.
This is why mechs like the hunchback, stalker, battlemaster, Thunderbolt (5S and 9SE that is... not the 5SS or 9S) etc are okay. But the other mechs are not really that well...


Proposed idea: lower energy and er ppc quirks for this thing. It isn't even famous for energy hardpoint counts anyway... give it something for the missile, ballsitics.

Reduce the energy heat and er ppc quirks a bit and add medium laser quirks.

Edited by Nightshade24, 06 January 2015 - 05:41 AM.

[Apocryph0n]

Nightshade24, on 06 January 2015 - 01:23 AM, said:

yes, because 4 er medium lasers and 2 large pulse lasers on a timberwolf is op...

considering that 1 medium laser of us clanner is the same with more range after modules as a IS Large laser, yes.


Most people forget that you can build a HBR with 3 PPC and the same cooling efficiency + ECM and better hitboxes but less range. (Not even on boreal you need over 1000 meters with PPCs, you can only hit stuff that stands still), but more speed. Not suggesting to fit it like that, since Clan Lasers are just too good for their weight, but if you want to: Do it, if you fancy PPCs.

Edit: Oh and including the splash damage clan PPCs do, we also get 45Alpha and almost 4 DPS with the same peek a boo ability with the high-ish mounted ECM Omnipod Energy Hardpoints.

Most people forget that the 9S can alpha twice, then chain fire all 3 and then sits for ages to cool off again. It is a 30 pinpoint alpha but including double basics, quirks and modules it deals less than 3.4 DPS. If you can't get around a slow moving mech that has 2/3 of his firepower in 1 location and actually hit that location you need to step up your game a bit.

(To compare that: My Mist Lynx deals 4.8dps, my HBRs and TBRs deal close to 6 at almost TDR 9S range)

I love seein the IS doing better in CW now, before that it was a pure roflstomp.

Edited by Apocryph0n, 06 January 2015 - 06:13 AM.

[xWiredx]

Maple Nachiman, on 05 January 2015 - 11:47 AM, said:

Stop complaining, it's no-where near as OP as stormcrow and madcat laser vomit.

Yes, yes it is. Not even talking as a clanner because I play IS quite a bit in regular matches (in fact, I love my t-bolts, but I do not have any of them equipped with more than one ER/PPC). The "laser vomit" you speak of is scan damage, so anything moving and causing already bad hitreg to be skewed is going to render those builds far less effective. PPCs are pinpoint. Something that is pinpoint, can't be rendered only partially effective by movement, does significant damage, and can be drummed on for an extended period of time is far more OP than something that can be moved away from during its duration to prevent damage.