17 replies to this topic

[vettie]

I know at one time FF was supposed to provide better protection for Mechs equipped at a cost of 14 slots. I think the number was 12% (?)

I never used FF much, except on Lights because of the slots (mainly).

Since the Quirks, I have gone back and revisited some of my mechs that I had already loaded up (and most matched) to check against Quirks. Mostly my Mediums and some Heavies.

AS mentioned, the mechs were already in line with the Quirks. I played some and really enjoyed the Quirks, adding modules just made it even better.

SO, I noticed that some of these mechs had room to equip FF (endo already installed). so I tried a couple.

What I dont know is if it was just me (wanting it to be so) of if the FF actually was working adding some additional protection. Being a brawler at heart, my mech is exposed more so than many people, but the ones that I equipped FF, seemed to hold up a little longer than prior to FF installation. The way I play, every little bit helps. And I realize lots of variables in place, map, enemy, direct hits, blah blah blah...

Has anyone else noticed FF actually adding some additional protection?

I did a real simple test. Ran a mech without FF. Played 3 rounds, solo. Loaded FF and ran 3 more rounds solo. AS luck would have it, I landed 2 maps the same with and without FF (pure luck).

Any way just curious. Anyone notice any different? If you like your load and you have the slots, do you think it is worth it, remembering ENDO already installed.

[Joseph Mallan]

It never offered BETTER protection ever. It offered more armor per ton at the cost of crit space, but you never got more than MAX for standard armor. Now Hardend armor gave us more protection at the cost of 1 running point.

[Roughneck45]

FF does not give you extra protection.

FF makes your armor lighter at the cost of critical slots.

If you are not a light mech or a very specific build its not worth it.

[Vanguard836]

FF for IS provides 12% extra armor PER TON, a bit more for Clan FF , not 12% damage reduction. It saves weight only, does not actualy provide damage reduction.

[FupDup]

The "better protection" thing is an extremely misleading and obfuscated description from Sarna/BT. The real translation is that it just weighs less, therefore giving more armor points for 1 ton of weight...but your maximum armor is still the same. The difference is that FF lets you achieve that same protection for less tonnage.


Semantics aside, FF for both sides being always inferior to Endo (less for Clans but still) is certainly sad. Giving FF a damage resistance boost or increased armor limit would remedy that and also be nice for people who want their mechs to be tougher ("muh precious TTK").

Something similar could be done for Standard Internal Structure for the same reason (in that like at least 95% of the serious builds in the game use Endo).

Edited by FupDup, 05 January 2015 - 09:23 AM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

If we were to have a situation in the future that mechs would have unique armor profiles and not be able to simply add armor up to the weight class max, then Ferro might have some value in more situations.

For example, if a mech is limited to 4 tons of armor period, then you can have a situation where 4 tons of Ferro might be worth considering to bring total armor closer to the weight class max.

The only other way would to make Ferro useful in more situations would be to have Repair and Rearm 2.0; where Endo would be more expensive to use than Ferro.

[vettie]

Fair enough. IF you have the slots, opinions - is FF worth it?

[FupDup]

vettie, on 05 January 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

Fair enough. IF you have the slots, opinions - is FF worth it?

If you already have Endo, and have a lot of slots left over that you can't really use, it can help add a wee bit more equipment into the build. Emphasis on the fact that Endo should always come first, because Endo is always superior because it saves more weight and takes up the same space.

[Joseph Mallan]

vettie, on 05 January 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

Fair enough. IF you have the slots, opinions - is FF worth it?

On the biggest Mech FFA saves you 2.5 tons on full armor for the Mech. Endo saves 5. Both take up 14 slots. The answer is yours and your alone but would likely fall in with the masses.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 05 January 2015 - 11:17 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

I've been saying FF armor needs to be straight up damage reduction since MW3.

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 05 January 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

I've been saying FF armor needs to be straight up damage reduction since MW3.

I'm glad nobody has listened to you yet Vass.

[C E Dwyer]

I actually read this as FT for IS Mechs

I was thinking w.t.f does an IS pilot need to financial times for

[RazorbeastFXK3]

Ferro Fibrous is best used for if you have the extra x14 slots to use and you need more armor or if you're already full on armor and you want to upgrade an engine by .5 tons or so depending on the overall tonnage of the 'mech or if you want to upgrade an SRM2 to an SSRM2 or a medium laser to a medium pulse laser since they both use the same number of slots just extra weight.

Pretty much a case of "Every little bit counts" when it comes to what you want to do with your 'mech I guess. There are a few 'mechs of mine that have Endo Steel but Standard Armor 'cause I'm maxed out on armor and I don't want to upgrade any of my equipment/weapons.

[Kraven Kor]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 January 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

I'm glad nobody has listened to you yet Vass.

I dunno; it isn't like the lore ever implied light mechs were the only ones to benefit from FF, and that is certainly the reality 90% of the time.

Ferro Fibrous needs *something* to make it balanced against ES, as in lore, there were mechs that benefitted from FF without ES. That has *never* been the case with BT mechanics, though - ES has always been the better option.

[vettie]

hmmm
just reading Sarna

Ferro-Fibrous armor (FF) is a special type of armor used by vehicles and BattleMechs. Utilizing a weave of ferro-steel, ferro-titanium, and diamond weave fibers which boosts the tensile strength of the plating^[1][2], it provides more protection per ton than standard armor (12% for Inner Sphere FF, 20% for Clan FF), but takes up more space on the 'Mech or vehicle (14 critical slots for Inner Sphere, 7 for Clan 'Mechs; two slots for Inner Sphere vehicles, one for Clan). The maximum amount of protection is not changed; merely the weight of armor required to achieve that level of protection. For a unit which already has maximum armor protection, it is therefore considered a weight-saving measure, at the cost of critical space.

I guess it is worded a bit odd. It says it provides more protection per ton.... Then it also says the max..amount is not changed, merely the weight required to achieve....

So reading it as worded, one could say that you could tack on less FF amour and get the same amount of protection as if it were full armour (non FF). I guess this is where I was mislead (mis-read) (about the 12% more protection), thinking I could put 9 to 10% LESS armour on board and get the same protection as if fully armoured, but this is not really the case. All it really does is eat up slots and gain you some amount tonnage. AFTER ENDO, if you have the slots, the CBills AND want that little bit of extra tonnage, it can be applied gaining maybe another heat sink, extra round of ammo, larger engine....

[HlynkaCG]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 January 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

It never offered BETTER protection ever. It offered more armor per ton at the cost of crit space, but you never got more than MAX for standard armor. Now Hardend armor gave us more protection at the cost of 1 running point.

Well in first edition you did but it was pretty rare for a mech or vehicle to actually to capitalize on it. Even after FASA shifted to the current system you still get some functional durability bonus as critical hits to armor slots "bounce" but without a proper crit system that doesn't do us any good in MWO.

[Mcgral18]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 January 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

I'm glad nobody has listened to you yet Vass.

It's not a bad choice.

That or increasing the cap x% are both options to make it....not terribad. Damage reduction (to armour only) is fine, low tonnage saving but some more longevity.

Of course, both the TimberGod and DoomCrow come with Ferro, so making it too good isn't ideal either. At the same rate, so do the Cute Fox, Badder, Ice Fridge and Lynx.



Letting people forgo the weight savings and straight up add armour is also a nice enough solution.

Edited by Mcgral18, 05 January 2015 - 12:51 PM.

[Kraven Kor]

HlynkaCG, on 05 January 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

Well in first edition you did but it was pretty rare for a mech or vehicle to actually to capitalize on it. Even after FASA shifted to the current system you still get some functional durability bonus as critical hits to armor slots "bounce" but without a proper crit system that doesn't do us any good in MWO.

Oh man we argued that rule so much; half our group was absolutely certain that you re-rolled if the crit hit ES / FF slot, while the other half was equally rabid that ES / FF gave you that extra durability.