26 replies to this topic

[Metus regem]

Yet oddly Illya, some of the T5/4 can be some of the most fun to pilot, and prove to be good teachers, for good piloting skills. I have said it several times, people should learn to pilot a Dragon or Locust first, it forces you to have situational awareness.

[Gyrok]

Deathlike, on 05 January 2015 - 05:35 PM, said:

There are weaknesses, but good players minimize them... either through builds or actual understanding.




Dual Gauss is not exactly a plus, consider a Timberwolf "consumes" 5 tons for DHS by default.

While the side torso hitboxes are what they are, you're not supposed to show your face indefinitely. That's completely pilot error.

Hardlocked JJs are the least of your problems. If you're making LRM boats out of Timberwolves, I have Atlas-LRM boats to sell you. There are better things to do than the use LRMs on a Timberwolf. It so much amounts to the day PGI decided to enforce an ECM hardpoint and the massive complaining about that with respect to LRM boats on the D-DC.

Of course, people should be complaining for not getting the TImberwolf-D (and its omnipods) instead.



Comparisons will be made, rest assured.

It vastly weakens all srm builds with locked jjs.

Also, face time much longer than preferred is required to get full burn on laser vomit. That or you trade however you can and generate tons of heat for not much damage.

Also, I have never made a TW LRM build, no sense in it.

@Ultimatum:

I mean the hellbie is as good as most solid IS mechs, and not better than things like the 5SS or 9S, and is mostly in that situation because ECM. It has average-ish hitboxes, and only picked up free tonnage from a-pods. Otherwise would still carry less than stormcrow.

[Ultimax]

Illya Arkhipova, on 05 January 2015 - 05:53 PM, said:

But the only thing that makes it a Tier 1 at all is the ECM in a heavy chassis.

I already gave a list of other important attributes that make the HBR T1, you're welcome to read it.

Gyrok, on 06 January 2015 - 05:51 AM, said:

It vastly weakens all srm builds with locked jjs.

No, it really didn't.

It’s weaker only when compared to its own former build, and no other build on any other mech.

Name one IS mech that can:

• Pack ASRM or SRM 4x4 or 6x4
  
• That has jumpjets
  
• Roughly 20 DHS
  
• Moves 89 kph
  
• Can have the rough equivalent of 3x LLAS as "back up" weapons.

Even with locked JJs its one of the best brawlers in the game.

Gyrok, on 06 January 2015 - 05:51 AM, said:

@Ultimatum:
I mean the hellbie is as good as most solid IS mechs, and not better than things like the 5SS or 9S, and is mostly in that situation because ECM.

My HBR w/ 5x MPL is easily the equal of my 5SS with 7x MPLs + quirks and generally speaking trades DPS for other advantages.

• Alpha is nearly the same (40 vs. 42)
  
• HBR only needs 10 tons of weapons vs. 14 tons for the 5SS
  
• Range is roughly equivalent with the HBR having slightly better opt range (after mods, quirks and MK 1 TC)
  
• 5SS costs lower heat to alpha (approx 24 heat after quirks vs. 30 heat)
  
• 5SS has higher recycle for higher DPS but the HBR runs a bit cooler (see below)
  
• 5SS has slightly shorter burn time (0.6 vs. 0.85)
  
• HBR has more DHS (approx 25 vs. 20 for 5SS)
  
• HBR has slimmer profile
  
• HBR is faster (typically 89kph vs. 76kph)
  
• HBR can have a fully ablaitive shield side
  
• HBR can pseudo-zombie with head laser
  
• HBR has ECM & MK 1 TC (which if you actually wanted to, could drop and move up to 27 DHS)

Gyrok, on 06 January 2015 - 05:51 AM, said:

It has average-ish hitboxes, and only picked up free tonnage from a-pods. Otherwise would still carry less than stormcrow.

The hitboxes are better than the TDRs, and can have a fully ablative shield side.


Unless those A-pods weighed more than 3 tons, it would not carry less than a Stormcrow as the HBR starts with 3 built in tons worth of DHS – unless you have some Stormcrow build that uses 10 DHS?

I'm going to guess that's a "no".

Edited by Ultimatum X, 06 January 2015 - 12:15 PM.

[Deathlike]

Gyrok, on 06 January 2015 - 05:51 AM, said:

It vastly weakens all srm builds with locked jjs.

Also, face time much longer than preferred is required to get full burn on laser vomit. That or you trade however you can and generate tons of heat for not much damage.

Also, I have never made a TW LRM build, no sense in it.

I don't like using the "balance" term here, but considering that no other Clan Mech can perform that feat (the closest is the Stormcrow, that can set up as 3E, 4M, but lacks the DHS at that point to combine with CERMEDs effectively), then it is "fine as is".

The build itself is actually constraining by design so while it is powerful, you'll actually be making tradeoffs in build design to keep it useful. I don't see the exact problem.

I'm talking about the commonly used 4 CERMED + 4 SRM6 (with or w/o Artemis) build.

Ultimatum X, on 06 January 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

No, it really didn't.

It’s weaker only when compared to its own former build, and no other build on any other mech.

Name one IS mech that can:

• Pack ASRM or SRM 4x4 or 6x4
  
• That has jumpjets
  
• Roughly 20 DHS
  
• Moves 89 kph
  
• Can have the rough equivalent of 3x LLAS as "back up" weapons.

Even with locked JJs its one of the best brawlers in the game.

TBH, I don't think there is an equivalent for the IS, but the closest thing is a Stalker (and one Battlemaster) running a similar loadout... and even then, it's a poor facsimile (speed, tonnage, DHS).

Half-arsed attempt:
STK-5M

Edited by Deathlike, 06 January 2015 - 11:25 AM.

[Brody319]

Problem with IS is, all its mechs around the Timberwolf are built like this

The Timberwolf is a 75 ton stalker with arms, it just needs to twist slightly right or left to spread damage.

[Ultimax]

Deathlike, on 06 January 2015 - 11:19 AM, said:

I don't like using the "balance" term here, but considering that no other Clan Mech can perform that feat (the closest is the Stormcrow, that can set up as 3E, 4M, but lacks the DHS at that point to combine with CERMEDs effectively), then it is "fine as is".

The build itself is actually constraining by design so while it is powerful, you'll actually be making tradeoffs in build design to keep it useful. I don't see the exact problem.

I'm talking about the commonly used 4 CERMED + 4 SRM6 (with or w/o Artemis) build.




TBH, I don't think there is an equivalent for the IS, but the closest thing is a Stalker (and one Battlemaster) running a similar loadout... and even then, it's a poor facsimile (speed, tonnage, DHS).

Half-arsed attempt:
STK-5M

There isn't even an equivalent clan side.

I'm OK with that, I'm OK with where the Timber wolf is.

Its the insistence that a face wrecking build like that is "weakened" that I can't let sit.

[Deathlike]

Ultimatum X, on 06 January 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

There isn't even an equivalent clan side.

I'm OK with that, I'm OK with where the Timber wolf is.

Its the insistence that a face wrecking build like that is "weakened" that I can't let sit.

When you see top tier teams occasionally taking that build en masse and push to facewreck everything in their way... you know there's something really good about that build when used properly.

The issue though is that the build is too hot to alpha reliably... relying on the CERMEDs to get into SRM range and then shoving SRMs into everyone once you do. It's not that complicated a mech.