108 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

Everyone keeps complaining about the grind and something came to me the other day. My generation of gamers 35+ years of age came from a very different age of MMO's than did the younger generation. The F2P model as far as I am concerned is complete trash. However within it in most games are solutions. In my day we had to and were happy to pay monthly subscriptions which netted us no extra bonuses other than being able to play the game we liked. The F2P model has opened up a wide variety of games that you do not have to spend a dime on.

I have noticed many threads about how the grind is awful and how it needs to be better. I for one have no problems with it and the above is why. I am 42 years of age. I am established and have enjoyed gaming since the 70's. I have no problems spending a bit of cash to help the game along since I love to play it. With that the grind becomes meaningless. See below SS. Had I not spent any money on the game I would have earned 112k, showing support for MWO I actually earned 201K. That is on the low end for me, usually I am in the 250k range. You can not tell me that the C-Bill grind is "that" bad when in less than an hour you could earn up to a million C-bills.

That does not make the game P2W. It makes the game continue....

[Vassago Rain]

No one enjoys grinding 40 hours to buy a stock daishi.

Sub games don't have mindless grind. They have content. You pay a sub so you can get quality content, quality servers, quality customer service, good graphics, functional gameplay mechanics, and everything else.

And really, you got 200k? With premium?

Thanks for proving how grindy this game is.

[Bill Lumbar]

Some of us support the game.... the grind is just simply insane. Something must change, its getting old.

[NovaFury]

Vassago Rain, on 05 January 2015 - 04:08 PM, said:

Sub games don't have mindless grind. They have content.

I guess, but doing the same raid 56 times got old really fast too.

[Lily from animove]

Darian DelFord, on 05 January 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:

Everyone keeps complaining about the grind and something came to me the other day. My generation of gamers 35+ years of age came from a very different age of MMO's than did the younger generation. The F2P model as far as I am concerned is complete trash. However within it in most games are solutions. In my day we had to and were happy to pay monthly subscriptions which netted us no extra bonuses other than being able to play the game we liked. The F2P model has opened up a wide variety of games that you do not have to spend a dime on.

I have noticed many threads about how the grind is awful and how it needs to be better. I for one have no problems with it and the above is why. I am 42 years of age. I am established and have enjoyed gaming since the 70's. I have no problems spending a bit of cash to help the game along since I love to play it. With that the grind becomes meaningless. See below SS. Had I not spent any money on the game I would have earned 112k, showing support for MWO I actually earned 201K. That is on the low end for me, usually I am in the 250k range. You can not tell me that the C-Bill grind is "that" bad when in less than an hour you could earn up to a million C-bills.

That does not make the game P2W. It makes the game continue....

well for a new player thre is still a load of grind, and heaven prevent he is spending his cadet boni on the wrong mech. because at this point people tets the game now knowing if they liek it and want to support it. very much an issue at all. Once you ahve a few mechs you like and enjoy playing the "grind" is not that bad at all. And then you know if you wanna spend some money on the game as well.

with preimum even a lost CW match cna still be somehow decent money round 500k a match, which still feels less grindy to work for than making 3 normal games even if they would be a lot more efficient for grinding money.

[Bill Lumbar]

Lily from animove, on 05 January 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

well for a new player thre is still a load of grind, and heaven prevent he is spending his cadet boni on the wrong mech. because at this point people tets the game now knowing if they liek it and want to support it. very much an issue at all. Once you ahve a few mechs you like and enjoy playing the "grind" is not that bad at all. And then you know if you wanna spend some money on the game as well.

with preimum even a lost CW match cna still be somehow decent money round 500k a match, which still feels less grindy to work for than making 3 normal games even if they would be a lot more efficient for grinding money.

Lol..... not bad at all hey? I am into this game a year.... have supported it with cash, and have around 16 mechs in my hanger. Its still a massive grind for all players, even for the ones that have thrown $500+ into it.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 05 January 2015 - 04:43 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

Interesting my 400 + million C-Bill Bank does not concur there is a grind. between Premium and Hero Bonus there is no grind. Hilarious actually. Spend a little money to support and it goes a long way

[LordBraxton]

Inb4 the uber rich defense force comes in to talk about how generous our sweet PGI overlords are

The grind is ridiculous.

Premiums\heros should net you 400k at least on a solid win. 200-250 for non premium,

Darian DelFord, on 05 January 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

Interesting my 400 + million C-Bill Bank does not concur there is a grind. between Premium and Hero Bonus there is no grind. Hilarious actually. Spend a little money to support and it goes a long way

**** I was too late

Edited by LordBraxton, 05 January 2015 - 06:00 PM.

[Scout Derek]

Grinding in this game is a PAIN, even with premium. Though right now community warfare came pay out up to 1.8 mil if you do REALLY good with premium on, and least you can get from it is 200k. For those that don't have premium time you can expect u to 1 mil, t leas is 150k. And those CW games are fun 3/4 of the time, but can last from 5min(for those damn zerg rushes), or up to 25 min. I'd spend more time on CW then reg matches, because as soon as you drop after last match, you may end up with the people from YOUR last game, and IF you last LAST game, chances are you'll probably go against them AGAIN...
at least, that's how my games go 1/3 of the time...

[Darian DelFord]

LordBraxton, on 05 January 2015 - 06:00 PM, said:

Inb4 the uber rich defense force comes in to talk about how generous our sweet PGI overlords are

The grind is ridiculous.

Premiums\heros should net you 400k at least on a solid win. 200-250 for non premium,



**** I was too late

Ridiculous how? No one ever states any reason's and or facts for that. They just spout off "Hey no fair, I want it all now" This is today's entitlement generation.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 05 January 2015 - 06:11 PM.

[LordBraxton]

Darian DelFord, on 05 January 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

Ridiculous how? No one ever states any reason's and or facts for that. They just spout off "Hey no fair, I want it all now" Sch is today's entitlement generation.

All the prices are ridiculous.

F2P IS a terrible model for games, even if it is keeping our industry strong

I thought the MW4 mechpacks were overpriced...

Now theyre asking $240 for the first set of Clan mechs...

So yes, all the prices are ridiculous.

How is this game worth $1000s to titanfall's $60? (or like $20 now)

[Darian DelFord]

LordBraxton, on 05 January 2015 - 06:10 PM, said:

All the prices are ridiculous.

F2P IS a terrible model for games, even if it is keeping our industry strong

I thought the MW4 mechpacks were overpriced...

Now theyre asking $240 for the first set of Clan mechs...

So yes, all the prices are ridiculous.

How is this game worth $1000s to titanfall's $60? (or like $20 now)

You do not need to buy a "pack" I am not saying you need to do that at all. But Hero mech that is highly rated and or that you like. Spend a little bit on premium time and for less than $50 the C-bills will flow like spice.

People see the pack prices and "OMG P2W" not really. Spend 50 dollars accomplish the same thing. In my C1 Catapult I averaged almost 1.75 million per hour.

[LordBraxton]

Darian DelFord, on 05 January 2015 - 06:13 PM, said:

You do not need to buy a "pack" I am not saying you need to do that at all. But Hero mech that is highly rated and or that you like. Spend a little bit on premium time and for less than $50 the C-bills will flow like spice.

People see the pack prices and "OMG P2W" not really. Spend 50 dollars accomplish the same thing. In my C1 Catapult I averaged almost 1.75 million per hour.

Lets roll with 1.5mil per hour, though I think the average is closer to 1mil

That's about 30 Hours to buy three summoners.

30 hours of grinding as many matches as you can.

Or $55, the price of a full game, to buy them ala carte.

The IS prices aren't as ridiculous sounding in comparison, when you factor all the upgrades they require it's still a LOT of man hours.

At any rate, the whole 'donate to the cause' thing disappeared for me after they raked in so much founder cash.

This isn't PBS, I'm not donating a certain amount to get X rewards, I want products at a reasonable cost.

$55 for three different variants of the SAME in game character model in a shooter with mediocre graphics....

Help

[Vassago Rain]

Darian DelFord, on 05 January 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

Interesting my 400 + million C-Bill Bank does not concur there is a grind. between Premium and Hero Bonus there is no grind. Hilarious actually. Spend a little money to support and it goes a long way

The last reset was in july 2012. You've had 3 years to farm space dollars, man.

At least try to employ some perspective. New players aren't gonna bother with grinding modules for our two map CW end-game 'raids.' They're just gonna go play another game that doesn't have 40 hour grinds for ONE ROBOT.

[PrettyPrettyHateMachine]

Vassago Rain, on 05 January 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

The last reset was in july 2012. You've had 3 years to farm space dollars, man.

At least try to employ some perspective. New players aren't gonna bother with grinding modules for our two map CW end-game 'raids.' They're just gonna go play another game that doesn't have 40 hour grinds for ONE ROBOT.

^^ This. I am sure there are lot of people that feel entitled, but honestly I think the biggest problem is attention span. Time vs reward. If you feel like your not rewarded for the time you put in, or know what your reward is and the time needed seems outrageous you won't bother and move on to something else. Right now PGI F2P model is catering to the "whales", which is why new players don't stay around long. Given enough time everyone will stop playing, non-whales because of too much grind and other more attractive games and there after the whales because no one will be left to play the game.

Honestly I LOL every time PGI announces a new mech, 25 bucks, or w/e, are you serious, a whole game costs 60 at release, is PGI saying 2 mechs are = to a whole-ish, new AAA title? Thats why people complain.

[Darian DelFord]

Vassago Rain, on 05 January 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

The last reset was in july 2012. You've had 3 years to farm space dollars, man.

At least try to employ some perspective. New players aren't gonna bother with grinding modules for our two map CW end-game 'raids.' They're just gonna go play another game that doesn't have 40 hour grinds for ONE ROBOT.

I'm not seeing the 40 hour grind for one mech. How does it take 40 hours to grind for 1 Jenner, firestarter, cicada, Hunchback?

You want grinds, Grind Everquest character to level 50 or Dark Ages of Camelot or ANY of the MMO's that came out in the late 90's early 2000. That's the perspective that I have. MWO does not have a grind if you spend a little money. Sorry.

Your perspective is "newer" players. I am from the age where MMO's were first coming into being and THOSE were grinds to get what you wanted. The "newer" players want everything handed to them without putting some effort into it. With that being said I will say that the NUE needs a ton of work.

Edit grammar

Edited by Darian DelFord, 05 January 2015 - 07:17 PM.

[Bill Lumbar]

Darian DelFord, on 05 January 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

Ridiculous how? No one ever states any reason's and or facts for that. They just spout off "Hey no fair, I want it all now" This is today's entitlement generation.

No Darian, you are simply mistaken.... many have posted up real numbers from their own life time earnings after adding them all up from their stat's page, and it really is pretty sad. Not trying to be rude.... but it would seem the real "entitlement generation" here is one of two types. The Game developer that charges crack prices for everything in a game, and provides a very limited game regarding depth and content, and yet charges a premium on every little thing and makes earnings and rewards so low thinking it will get gamers to buy into and support their game.

Then you have the types that have been in the game playing for so long, that if things were to change for the better, they feel it would some how effect them in a negative way because others would progress a bit faster then they did. The only ones that make the claim with out backing it up with real numbers are ones like you, that say, " I have major doe in my bank, I don't feel a thing, its all good." If a few things were different in this game, like for instance if every time a player sold off a mech, modules, equipment and weapons and didn't get screwed like he just went to the pawn store (ya know only 1\3 of what they paid in c-bills) And this game had some real depth and content to it... Maybe we wouldn't notice the "grind" so bad. This game hits you every which way from Sunday, between this fact, and prices in general for everything in the game that is offered. Given this games current state, all I can say is good luck with any hope for success when it hits Steam.

Many of the Die hard BT fans are willing to put up with this model and support it, IMO however, many gamers with any common sense will not.

[Pjwned]

Darian DelFord, on 05 January 2015 - 07:11 PM, said:

Your perspective is "newer" players. I am from the age where MMO's were first coming into being and THOSE were grinds to get what you wanted. The "newer" players want everything handed to them without putting some effort into it. With that being said I will say that the NUE needs a ton of work.

Every single one of those games has and had far more content than MWO and were far more social by nature, so the excessive grinding was mitigated quite a bit.

Neither of those things are true for MWO, so while the amount of total grinding may not be as much as those other games, it's still a huge hassle and it's not fun in any way to deal with it because it's simply tacked on to make the F2P business model "work."

[DaZur]

Vassago Rain, on 05 January 2015 - 04:08 PM, said:

No one enjoys grinding 40 hours to buy a stock daishi.

Sub games don't have mindless grind. They have content. You pay a sub so you can get quality content, quality servers, quality customer service, good graphics, functional gameplay mechanics, and everything else.

And really, you got 200k? With premium?

Thanks for proving how grindy this game is.

There in lies your faulty logic: "No one enjoys grinding 40 hours to buy a stock daishi".

Then guess what?... If the time commitment of 40 hours seems unreasonable FOR FREE you always have the option to open your wallet and buy the damn thing.

This is what just get me right under the short-hairs... The complain always comes back to "PGI expects too much of me to EARN a piece of kit".

PGI's expectation of us is to play the game... Be it 4 to 6 hours to earn a Spider or 40 hours to earn a Dashi. If time is of the essence and one has to means... By all means, skip it and drop some coin.

It's free-to-play folks. PGI hope is you see see enough value in it to invest in it... Not see a gradient of grind that one feels satisfied with the commensurate effort to obtain what ever kit they set their sights on with marginal effort and zero investment.

Absolutely, argument can be made that the grind is too much and premium is too meager. Hell, in fact elsewhere I'm said as much... Having said that like the OP I understand his premise and to a very large extent echo his sentiments. We expect a cost for the things we desire... be it the cost of invested time or money.

There seems to be a huge disconnect around here sometimes... Few value the work involved to provide the very product they desire yet have unrealistic expectations of what should be provided for nothing but the investment of time.

[Bobzilla]

Darian DelFord, on 05 January 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

They just spout off "Hey no fair, I want it all now" This is today's entitlement generation.

You spent money on something you could have worked for and then pat yourself on the back for 'helping the game'. So you havin't even had to grind like them and have no idea where they are comming from anyways. Sorry to break it to you but you sound far more entitled than them.

The problem with the grind has nothing to do with what you spent or how much can possibly be earned.

The problem is, those who need it most (new players) aren't good and earn the least. I don't even look at the rewards anymore because they have no effect on me and I'm sure a lot of other players have reached that point. But i do remember grinding for my first mech, and grinding to load it out, then wasting a ton and grinding more. Then repeating that 2 more times untill they were all mastered. After that it wasn't so much of a grind. Granted it was pre-cadet bonus, but still, they obviously put that in for a reason and it isn't 'because players felt entitled'.

You have a very self-centric view of life for someone who's 42.