46 replies to this topic

[Bluttrunken]

No love for the Quickdraw =/

[Voivode]

k05h3lk1n, on 06 January 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

No love for the Quickdraw =/

Only IS heavy I don't have. Didn't include it because I can't really speak to it.

[Koniving]

Sharky09, on 05 January 2015 - 10:56 PM, said:

When I am finished I like to move up to a heavy. Been paying attention on this forum, but also ingame and I noticed that only very few (inner sphere) heavies are used commonly. Very few. JagerMech, some Thunderbolt, some Catapults. Rest you hardly see. Surprising for me ...
Are the rest difficult to handle, or just old (most fed up with them), or just crap? Is this the general opinion?, and are only the clan heavies worth looking at? Because I see them way more often.

Just orientating what my next step should be. I need a 4th mech to enter CW.

So far I enjoyed playing support-brawling/LRM the most (and most succesfull). Have the 4G, 4J and 4SP.

I know most is about personnal preference, playstyle and taste. But need some direction.

Thanks in advance.

With CW purely in mind, and assuming those are the only mechs you have...
50 + 50 + 50 (the three Hunchbacks) + 90 = 240 tons. You can bring up to 240 tons into combat. This means you can go as heavy as a 90 ton assault mech.

That said, this means you've got quite a bit of wiggle room.

The reason you don't see many Inner Sphere heavies in use is because we've leveled them all. In higher queues, you're going to see few because "Been there, done that." In lower queues, it's because "Expensive." In fact Catapults should be pretty rare because it is very difficult to get a Catapult off the ground due to XL engines being practically required with how MWO is made, where Jagermechs and Thunderbolts can function well with or without XL engines.

Orions are tall, which precludes people from wanting to try them. However 75 to 85 tons is the perfect borderline of speed to armor to tonnage, the highest in optimal luxury. (This is one of the reasons Timber Wolves are pretty good). An Orion, essentially, is a 75 ton Atlas with more speed. Prior to quirks some of the most effective builds on Orions were those usually reserved for Atlases that were faster but held slightly less ammo. Unlike an Atlas, Orions can easily get out of bad situations.

The trouble is, Orions require a skill that most new players lack. The use of your arms. Much like with Hunchbacks, the mech can be good regardless, but once you master the arm controls it just becomes boatloads better.

Pre-quirk pure stock Orion. (Lets face it, takes some skills to pull this off with that, on Tourmaline, with Clan mech enemies).
Orion chase cam. (Battlemaster in the video is me. Video switches focus between us, but toward the end it focuses entirely on the Orion taking names).

---

There's the Cataphract. Very common, surprised you didn't list it.

Thunderbolt, honestly this was good before quirks but they got super quirked because people were afraid that 'fat target = easy kill'. Nope. Sport a standard engine and this thing is like a Stalker in that it will be very hard to take down (unless you cheat and go for the legs). But even XL engines work well in these.

Not long from now we'll have the Grasshopper, too. Looking forward to that.

Quickdraws are alright, but I like them better in tabletop. Now Dragons, there's plenty of praise for the super buffing they got. But I played them long before and enjoy them. If you can get over the beer belly and master control of your arms, you really can't get much better than a Dragon.

[Sharky09]

First of all - really mean this: the people on this forum, and playing MWO, are most friendly/helpfull as I ever seen in a game! ^^
So thanks to all who took the time to give me answers. They really help to get me further in this game.


Lot of comments, suggestions, tips.
Also some questions for me, see below short answer to some of them:

As I said own three Hunchbacks, leveling up the last one now. The 4SP. But also played all trail mechs couple of rounds each.
So far my best performance is as real support unit. Sticking with group but most in back or sides. My first buy was the AC20 Hunch. During second part of match when enemy is weaker I will participate more. Noticed that this was best way to keep alive.
Second mech was 4J with two LRM10 and rest ML. In beginning of match I help soften up enemy with LRM from the back (lot 6 ton ammo). When enemy is weaking I help with brawling in front. So my favorite game atm is combo LRM and brawling. Hunch can take a beating which I like. Not good at dodging (as I should be). Also not good at long distance guns/laser/PPC. So prefer LRM of longe range + want punch/armor/speed for brawling.

Jumpjets I do not miss atm. Some maps I miss them (like that 'trench' map) but I can do without them.

Weapons I like is thrill of autocannon, the AC20 is awesome. On my 4SP I now have two SRM6, which I dislike (like hail go all over the place). Also not good at heat management, so no laserboats for me

For CW I will stick with inner sphere mechs. First as solo player (already in a clan with other game(TAW). When I really like it I will join a group for some real teamplay. So for CW it will be 3 hunches and this fourth big one.

As I read all the suggestions in heavies (just thinking out loud here)

JagerMech - like the loadouts a lot, but seem to have vulnerable torso as I want enough speed (like around 80 kph, so XL engine?)
Catapult - is expensive, and for me looks like LRM boat all the way. Real specialist. Not really something I want now.
Dragon - looks cool design, but is it (60 ton) so different from a 50 ton Hunch?
Quickdraw is like Dragon but then less.
Orion - was my first throught to get because loadout is what I want. But he seems so tall - a huge target. Still not good at avoiding trouble yet so expect a quick death in this one ...
Leaves the Thunderbolt and Cataphract - seem both pure frontline brawlers only. Help assaults. Or do I do them injustice?

[Nothing Whatsoever]

What did you think of the Trial Victor?

Using your three Hunchbacks gives you up to 90 tons to play with for CW.


Edit:

With setting up a Drop Deck, it's often best to start with at least one Long Range mech and your 4J with LRMs works okay for that as the first mech, but be open to other options too, such as trying a customized Energy boat, so that you can fire over the walls and be able to hit the generators, and you can use LRMs for this too.

So overall, your Hunckbacks can be fine to drop with as the second or third mechs, and I figure that your speeds are going to in the range of ~64 to 75 on those.

Therefore, you should consider taking a fast Heavy or even look at a fast Assault.

So you can also look at Victors and Battlemasters these can mix together solid speeds and armor with a good mix of weapons.

And you can even look to Stalkers and Highlanders since you don't necessarily need to have a fast mech for CW as long as your clan is not looking to rush with faster mechs.

I'll just highlight a few details on a some available options.

With the Thunderbolts:

TDR-9S: Is a solid choice due to its quirks for ERPPCs. It currently runs pretty cool and already has DHS.

TDR-5SS: Is another good brawler with it's MPL quirks. With no Heat Scale Penalties it is easy to learn how to manage heat with this mech.

TDR-9SE: Has good quirks for LPLs and is another good brawler.

Cataphracts:

CTF-2X: This one allows for a great blend of AC/20 and SRM-4s

CTF-3D: JJs make this one a solid option, good hardpoints

CTF-4X: This is the slowest Heavy with low arms, but excellent AC/5 dakka

Victors:

VTR-9B: Has a negative quirk for Laser Duration, but that shouldn't be an issue if you try Pulse Lasers, likely Large

VTR-9K: Has quirks that can work nicely with Gauss and ER Large Lasers

VTR-9S: AC/20 and SRM-2s work well, and XL friendly. Can also try AC/5s and Large Lasers

Battlemasters:

BLR-1D: Has good quirks for Larger Lasers, that can be high mounted on the Torso

BLR-1S: Has LRM 15 quirks and has solid Energy quirks that can favor ER Large Lasers

Edited by Praetor Knight, 06 January 2015 - 02:19 PM.

[Sharky09]

Don't think I played that yet. Not a trail atm (anymore).
But good idea to put a newby in assault? Or is this overstated in forums (only veterans in assault)

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Well, it depends on the Assault. The ones I'm suggesting have stock engines that start you at 64.8 KPH, which is a good start for CW.

And it's more in Solo or Group deathmatch drops where slow Assaults are more vulnerable to being swarmed.



The main thing is know what you are going to use the mech for. With CW, first drop mech should be setup for long range exchange and dropping Turrets for example.

Then the rest of the drop deck can have other roles such as brawler for follow up drops to destroy the Generators and Leg enemy mechs quickly, or say be an LRMer to damage and destroy as much as you can before switching to the next mech.

[DONTOR]

Smoked, on 06 January 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

From what you said about your playstyle, I would recommend a ON1-V. An Orion that has 2 med pulse in arms, dual ac5 and 3 lrm 5 is a jack of all trades with decent speed and armor. With that being said it's not terribly effective at brawling or sniping but can do most things reasonably well and you can have fun with it.

Also because of it's hardpoints you can easily become more effective in sniping or brawling if that is your goal in the future.

Oh ya forgot about Orions lol, but they kinda do remind me a lil bit of a bigger hunchback, they would probably be right up your alley.

[Jody Von Jedi]

Sharky09, on 06 January 2015 - 12:55 PM, said:

Leaves the Thunderbolt and Cataphract - seem both pure frontline brawlers only. Help assaults. Or do I do them injustice?

Thunderbolt doesn't necessarily have to be played as a brawler. The 9S is quirked for ERPPC, certainly not the ideal brawling weapons. With the high energy mounts you can fire at long distance from cover with the 2 shoulder energy mounts.

Before the quirks, one of my favorite loadouts for the T-bolt 5S was definitely not meta, but it worked well for me at range.

When a chassis has balanced hardpoints like the TDR, you can always find a loadout that will work for you.

[JC Daxion]

Voivode, on 06 January 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

Only IS heavy I don't have. Didn't include it because I can't really speak to it.

I know.. you just don't see them very often.. If i didn't have so many heavies as it is, i'd just might try one..

[Sadistic Savior]

Leeroy Mechkins, on 05 January 2015 - 11:31 PM, said:

Thunderbolts, Jagermechs and Catapults are seen often because indeed these are the more competitive ones.
Check out metamechs.com Competitive Mech Buying page, it explains a lot why different mechs are good.

To summarise, Tbolts have excellent energy boats, Jagers (and Cataphracts) AC boats and Catapults for LRMs.

I have mastered 3 Thunderbolts. I personally didn't like them because the hardpoints were mounted low and were kinda haphazard. I don't use mine anymore.

I mastered the Catapults and LOVE the K2. AC/20 + 4 med lasers. Swapped out for a larger engine. It is quick and devastating at close range (though pretty useless at long range). I absolutely love how high the hardpoints are on it...if I can see something, I can hit it. Catapult's are very versatile...they make good missile and energy boats and can mount AC/20s. Even dual AC/20s.

I elited in Jagers. I like the high hardpoints but they are mostly in arms (easy to hit because of the long barrels and get clipped off easy). Non-arm hardpoints are kinda low. The stuff they are good at is stuff the Catapult can do too IMO. Catapults also have jump-jet options.

I Basic-ed in Cataphracts. I hated them. Those low-slung knuckle-dragging arms make sniping over ridges a huge chore and offer no benefits. They are bulky and the profile is easy to hit IMO. I like the way they look (the arms resemble a Marauder, which is cool). But fighting in them annoyed the hell out of me.

[TripleEhBeef]

Most of the piloting skills for the Hunchback translate pretty well over to the Orion. However, you're a larger target with lower mobility and lack the corner peeking greatness of the Hunchie. You can dish out the pain in close range combat but you are absolutely at the mercy of sniper mechs out in the open.

I wouldn't try it if you don't have the best sense of positioning and situational awareness. Go with a chassis that gives you more mobility.

[SnagaDance]

Sadistic Savior, on 07 January 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

I have mastered 3 Thunderbolts. I personally didn't like them because the hardpoints were mounted low and were kinda haphazard.

I mastered the Catapults and LOVE the K2. AC/20 + 4 med lasers. Swapped out for a larger engine. It is quick and devastating at close range (though pretty useless at long range). I absolutely love how high the hardpoints are on it...if I can see something, I can hit it.

It's really the arm mounted hardpoint on the Thunderbolt that are low slung. The torso mounted hardpoint are quite high. Using that arm for corner shooting is very nice.

And I don't think you're representing the K2 quite correctly here. Only 2 of those Energy hardpoint are high mounted, the others are low on the torso, just like all the energy hardpoints of all other Catapult variants, and are certainly not "If you can see it you can hit it", you'll need to expose almost your entire torso for those. And this goes double for any Ballistics on the K2, talk about low placed hardpoints! I've hit dirt far too many times with those thinking "Surely I've cleared the obstructing terrain by now.". For some ridge peaking shootiness I'd rather recommend the Jager, with the Firebrand hero if you want high energy mounts.

The Catapult does benefit from JumpJets, I'll grant you that, Ecept the K2 of course.

[Voivode]

I wouldn't shy away from the Orion (or any mech really) just because you don't see many. With the Orion, I would pay attention to the quirks. Despite its price (due to the XL engine it comes with) the quirks for the Orion 1M make it a devastating late game brawler. It seems like you have the patience for that tactic in the way you described using your Hunchbacks, so it might be worth checking out.

As far as the Dragon, it is quite a bit different than the Hunchback. First, it is recommended to run an XL engine in a Dragon as the hitboxes favor that. I would never recommend running a Hunchback with XL. The XL friendliness of the Dragon means that you have significantly more tonnage to work with than the 10 ton difference indicates. What you can do with a Dragon that you can't do with a Hunchback is run multiples of lighter ACs. My Dragon 5N has 1xUAC5 + 2xAC2 + 2xML and goes 89.1 KPH. My Dragon 1N has 2xAC5 + 2xMPL +2xSRM2 and it goes just over 80 KPH. Quite a bit heavier of a payload than you'll see on a Hunchback and decent speed to boot.

Edited by Voivode, 08 January 2015 - 08:36 AM.

[Mott]

Voivode, on 08 January 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

I wouldn't shy away from the Orion (or any mech really) just because you don't see many.

Can't echo this enough. Our unit has a guy who routinely gets 800+ damage and 4+ kill matches in his Locusts. Not like 1-in-10 matches regular... like 8-in-10 matches regular.

We have another guy who can dominate in Vindicators.

I myself take pride in the fact i more often than not take out a couple heavies & assaults per match in almost all of my medium mechs.

However, I would say that it's probably best to stick to a few of the proven chassis and builds to start out. You want to ensure you have a few competent and reliable mechs in the stable before you go looking to find a hidden gem amongst the "DOA" mechs.

[Jody Von Jedi]

Mott, on 08 January 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

a hidden gem amongst the "DOA" mechs.

TBT.....Shhhhh

[Sadistic Savior]

SnagaDance, on 08 January 2015 - 12:24 AM, said:

And I don't think you're representing the K2 quite correctly here. Only 2 of those Energy hardpoint are high mounted, the others are low on the torso, just like all the energy hardpoints of all other Catapult variants, and are certainly not "If you can see it you can hit it", you'll need to expose almost your entire torso for those.

The cockpit is mounted lower on the K2...the energy hardpoints are almost the same level as the cockpit. Same with the ballistic hardpoint. So yeah, if I can see it I can hit it. There is very little guesswork like there was with the Cataphract or Highlanders.



http://i.imgur.com/O5Wa8I0.jpg

Edited by Sadistic Savior, 09 January 2015 - 02:46 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Sadistic Savior, on 09 January 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

The cockpit is mounted lower on the K2...

No...

No it is not.

[Sadistic Savior]

Um, yeah, it is. Sorry. (I meant relative to other mechs, not other Catapults). Look at the energy/ballistic hardpoints relative to the cockpit. All non-arm mounts are like 1 foot from the cockpit.

Edited by Sadistic Savior, 09 January 2015 - 02:31 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Sadistic Savior, on 09 January 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

Um, yeah, it is. Sorry.

1: That is not the K-2

2: That shows absolutely nothing about the hitboxes