46 replies to this topic

[Flapdrol]

your link shows a 5% difference between 1333 and 1600, not worth it imo.

[Kuritaclan]

xWiredx, on 08 January 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

Also, no reason to talk OP out of a better board if the budget allows for it. He isn't an overclocker now, but generally people that buy K-series chips end up getting the itch. A better board that is easier to tune on would be of better benefit than a board a few dollars cheaper that isn't as nice to deal with.

You maybe don't be that deep into Motherboards than i did. If you could read german have a pleasure to read this Guide of mine: http://extreme.pcgam...versorgung.html I pretty much know what i talk about if i advice to use certain boards. You don't need to spend Bugs on heavy oc mainboards, if there is no need for it. My recommendations for the i7 4790k are pretty good without wasting money into overdone VRMs and other features no normal PC Users ever have use for.

xWiredx, on 08 January 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

A couple of links showing the affect of RAM speed on gaming.
http://www.xbitlabs....r3_7.html#sect0
http://www.corsair.c...aswellrealworld

He don't need to get new RAM. Yes there is a performance plus, and in a new rig i would recommend for a i7 4790k at least 2400Mhz RAM to have the accumulative effects of overclocking both. It is the decision of the TE.

And yeah above 1600Mhz there is beginning of diminishing returns - but also you need the price/performance curve 1333Mhz to 2400Mhz only have like 20% difference in price but the performance gain is high in that segment above price go up to the roof for not much mroe performance. If you chose 80$ ram what equal 5% performance you may also could chose a better graphic card for 100$ and gain 20% mehr performance.

Her you have Haswell and RAM http://www.anandtech...ng-on-haswell/7

As you can see for games there are little to no changes in performce. Zip/Rar Programs and Video En/Decoding profit better RAM. And yes when the rule is games do not stick to RAMperformance there are

exceptions like StarCraft2 (http://forum.hwbot.o...ead.php?t=99059) but this has also to do with the

starvation of cpu power such game comsume. High performance RAM help however on SLI/FC configs (German Forum about RAM. http://extreme.pcgam...ngzeittest.html)

As it stand he has 3 options:
if he wanna try out an FX 8320 and oc it - new cooler new ram should be added in as side cost. Less expansiv

if he wanna update substructure - A i7 4790k with Gigabyte Z97X Gaming 5/Asrock Z97 Extreme 6 and his old RAM and a new Cooler would bring him reasonable better perfomance gain

If he wanna make the substructure compelttly new - A i7 4790k with Gigabyte Z97X Gaming 5/Asrock Z97 Extreme 6 and a new Cooler New RAM (i would recommand 2400MHz everything above is to expensive for likewise no performance gain) would bring his RIG on the maximum performance he can gain with consumer oc for a reasonable value for money.

Lord Letto, on 08 January 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

I'll give and remove a PCIE-x16 slot, odds are he won't Quad SLI/XFire anyway to BE COMPETITIVE CAUSE HE'S A COMPETITIVE GAMER AND PERFORMANCE IS EVERYTHING! also, Thermal paste is not just for CPU but to change Paste on GPU and anything else also to help keep Temps down and improve OC Headroom, I think 12G should be good, and how long do unused Paste last before going bad to have extra if he were to build another computer in 2-3 years or so or build a computer for a Family Member/Friend? 1600MHz instead of 1866MHz, if you say so, hope it don't limit Max OC any

Well normal users don't clean up their pcs that often. If you would do a one year clean with changing Thermal paste 3-4g are also ok. If you wann have more go for it. Since it is mostly silcon based with metal most TP doesn't get bad for years.

If he should buy new RAM just stick to the 2400MHz/CL10 or 11 recommandation of G-Skill. They are good performs (also dual ranked) with a good price and don't have high heatspreaders (could be removed) to use with pretty much all air cooler's out there. I do not recommand 1600Mhz since they are only usfull with H81/B85/H97/H87 Boards, because those chipsets don't allow overclocking of Ram. If you run a Z97 Board it has RAM-oc included and therefore stick to the high performers with a reasonable frequency/timming ratio per price to make the most out of the overall oc including CPU+RAM+Graphicscard.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 08 January 2015 - 01:09 PM.

[MechWarrior4172571]

Lord Letto, on 08 January 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

http://www.newegg.ca...N82E16820103006
1333MHz, not 1600MHz

You are correct. Still, he could easily OC it to 1600 @9-9-9 timings since it was rated at 8-8-8 @1300. Still a good memory.

[Kuritaclan]

Jesus DIED for me, on 08 January 2015 - 12:41 PM, said:

You are correct. Still, he could easily OC it to 1600 @9-9-9 timings since it was rated at 8-8-8 @1300. Still a good memory.

Maybe the old RAM support XMP Profil so a Cl9 1600Mhz Profil is within.

[xWiredx]

Flapdrol, on 08 January 2015 - 11:48 AM, said:

your link shows a 5% difference between 1333 and 1600, not worth it imo.

$8 for 5% is worth it to me (based off the lowest priced g-skill 1600 and 1866 kits on Newegg right now).

If we were talking DDR4 prices, where 5% will cost you another $100-200, sure, I'd be inclined to agree, but when OP can eat 8 less $1 cheeseburgers over the course of a couple of years and come out even it doesn't make much sense not to go with 1866 over 1600.

[Lord Letto]

No one has really touched on the fact that it's AMD Brand RAM, Will it Even Work with Intel or is it AMD Only? Cause why would AMD Support their Competition (Intel)? then again, There are G.Skill Ripsaw X Kits Designed for Intel Yet Still work with AMD?

Edited by Lord Letto, 08 January 2015 - 01:15 PM.

[Kuritaclan]

xWiredx, on 08 January 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

$8 for 5% is worth it to me (based off the lowest priced g-skill 1600 and 1866 kits on Newegg right now).

If we were talking DDR4 prices, where 5% will cost you another $100-200, sure, I'd be inclined to agree, but when OP can eat 8 less $1 cheeseburgers over the course of a couple of years and come out even it doesn't make much sense not to go with 1866 over 1600.

your 8$ come only along if he would decidde to buy new 1333er RAM or 1600er or 1866er. - Since this is not case and question is sticking with his 1333er RAM or getting new. The 8$ Argument is somewhat not usefull, because if the TE get new RAM he should by better than 1600/1866/2000/2133 - xD

Lord Letto, on 08 January 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

No one has really touched on the fact that it's AMD Brand RAM, Will it Even Work with Intel or is it AMD Only? Cause why would AMD Support their Competition (Intel)?

RAM doesn't favor Intel or AMD. If there is a problem that his old RAM did not get supported by the new board, well than he have to buy new RAM anyhow what has support/is known to work on it. - And pls don't come up with those RAM support Tables they are made by trainees and are outdated when they released, have only a couple tested since there is so much diffrent RAM by diffrent manufactures on the market. The only way to know if a certain RAM works on a certain boards is trying it or stick to builds what have had the combination. And even this doesn't garantee a 100% compatibilty, since RAM Manufactures who don't use the self produced chips like samsung have to get those by other firms. One series can use slightly diffrent versions of RAM Blocks, which could make trouble, when there were no trouble with older versions. Ram compatibility is a story of its own.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 08 January 2015 - 01:23 PM.

[Goose]

Is the world inverting for y'all, too?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD FX-8370E 3.3GHz 8-Core Processor ($184.29 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright TS-140 73.6 CFM CPU Cooler ($39.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: G.Skill Trident X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2400 Memory ($110.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Toshiba 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($98.99 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($14.98 @ OutletPC)
Case Fan: Arctic Cooling AFACO-120P2-GBA01 74.0 CFM 120mm Fan ($7.98 @ OutletPC)
Case Fan: Arctic Cooling AFACO-120P2-GBA01 74.0 CFM 120mm Fan ($7.98 @ OutletPC)
Case Fan: Arctic Cooling AFACO-120P2-GBA01 74.0 CFM 120mm Fan ($7.98 @ OutletPC)
Case Fan: Arctic Cooling AFACO-120P2-GBA01 74.0 CFM 120mm Fan ($7.98 @ OutletPC)
Case Fan: Arctic Cooling AFACO-120P2-GBA01 74.0 CFM 120mm Fan ($7.98 @ OutletPC)
Case Fan: Arctic Cooling AFACO-120P2-GBA01 74.0 CFM 120mm Fan ($7.98 @ OutletPC)
Other: Antec SpotCool ($15.00)
Total: $512.11
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-01-08 16:28 EST-0500

That I'm suggesting this, and not Smokey, is nucking futs, but I see you have a mobo, already, and a PSU that can handle the OC …

On the other hand, AnandTech doesn't like your case, but I'm making a gambit out'a replacing all the fans.

I don't know why you've skipped out on $115 worth of drives, but I guess you could, again.

All of this assumes you're up for some overclocking …

[Kuritaclan]

The AMD FX-8370E is crap - since it is also basiclly a 8320 with just other manufacture settings. The technologie behind the socket AM3+ remain the same, so the performance did not do something as you use your own oc anyway to get the best performance out of a AMD CPU (sticking to the standard frequency is just no upgrade). And this is the same reason you don't buy a new 8350 or a 9590. - If he sticks with his board the cheapest way to use it is buying a second hand 8320/8350 and oc it.

[Goose]

Kuritaclan, on 08 January 2015 - 02:15 PM, said:

The AMD FX-8370E is crap …

Yeah - no

[Flapdrol]

xWiredx, on 08 January 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

$8 for 5% is worth it to me (based off the lowest priced g-skill 1600 and 1866 kits on Newegg right now).

He has the 1333 already, so it's $70 more.

[Kuritaclan]

Goose, on 08 January 2015 - 02:35 PM, said:

Yeah - no

I know what you are referring to.

xD -
"- On average 18% less leakage*1 (0-38%) for FX-8370
- On average 53% less leakage*1 (14-106%) for FX-8370E
- Up to 300MHz higher overclocking margin *12
- 100mV less voltage required for the same clocks on average *1

*1 - Compared to an average FX-8320 or FX-8350 CPU
*2 - When not restricted by the cooling or the motherboard (VRM)"

Well all what matters since amd power consumption is crap while oc'd is the achivable MHz. And this 300Mhz more compared to a FX8320/8350 is nothing what is not in range of the chips themself. Some get better results some get bad results - the waver where the chips come from is the problem. So you can have a good 8350 for example what achive 5,0GHz and a new FX-8370E that only get 4,8. Ok it may consume .250V less to do so and in the end your system may eat 25W less. But he over all this isn't so much better since in the oc region a AM3 Plattform Processor eat 200+W anyway.

Anyhow it would be a "new" CPU, with good value for price compared to new other AMD-Cpus of the FX Series, but it is still expensiv compared to a second hand FX 8320/8350, what i suggested. So for a couple MHz you will pay to much. Beside that the Motherboard isn't that great for overclocking at all (VRM wise).

And if he goes for a new cpu, i would say in gaming go for intel anyhow. AMD CPUs are a way back since the socket is so old. Intel has the better performance per core. And speaking of gaming there it needs some time so much more multithreading games are up that amd cpus even it out. They are not bad in multithreading, but most games out there do not support it. So the over all performance of AMD isn't good enough to buy one if you build a new rig.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 08 January 2015 - 03:14 PM.

[MechWarrior4172571]

Lord Letto, on 08 January 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

No one has really touched on the fact that it's AMD Brand RAM, Will it Even Work with Intel or is it AMD Only? Cause why would AMD Support their Competition (Intel)? then again, There are G.Skill Ripsaw X Kits Designed for Intel Yet Still work with AMD?

It states that it does support Intel..

Quote

Compatible with Intel and AMD platforms

As per it's description..

http://www.newegg.ca...N82E16820103006

[MechWarrior4172571]

Quote

He has the 1333 already, so it's $70 more.

If anybody cared to look at the reviews on the egg site about this ram, there is a person who said that he took the ram easily to 1,600MHz speed at those same timings. Why bother buying new ram when all you have to do is go into BIOS and press a couple clicks? How much does a click costs nowadays? Typing here costs more (think of "time=money" adage) than going once into BIOS once and getting an instant upgrade.. nah, that's a topic for a PhD guy I've heard about.

[Goose]

Jesus DIED for me, on 08 January 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

… Typing here costs more (think of "time=money" adage) than going once into BIOS once and getting an instant upgrade …

Annnd the hours a SMRT Guy would spend in MemTest86+, checking things moar radical then changing the command rate?

The bang-fer-buck of a RAM upgrade is spotty, seeing as you've already own some, but not since before Sandy Bridge has DDR3-1333 been recommended by anybody.

[Lord Letto]

Goose, on 08 January 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

Annnd the hours a SMRT Guy would spend in MemTest86+, checking things moar radical then changing the command rate?

The bang-fer-buck of a RAM upgrade is spotty, seeing as you've already own some, but not since before Sandy Bridge has DDR3-1333 been recommended by anybody.

at least until now in this thread in the time of Haswell and all it's goodness that would go to waste if he were to stick with All My Damns (Any abbreviations for AMD to Describe how AMD Sucks?) that AMD Sucks with MWO and that Intel is the MWO King, with that being said, I'm sticking to my 4790K Recommendation!

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($318.75 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97X-Gaming 5 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($138.98 @ OutletPC)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($76.99 @ Newegg)
Case Fan: Scythe Slipstream 110.3 CFM 120mm Fan ($7.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case Fan: Scythe Slipstream 110.3 CFM 120mm Fan ($7.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case Fan: Scythe Slipstream 110.3 CFM 120mm Fan ($7.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case Fan: Scythe Slipstream 110.3 CFM 120mm Fan ($7.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case Fan: Scythe Slipstream 110.3 CFM 120mm Fan ($7.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case Fan: Scythe Slipstream 110.3 CFM 120mm Fan ($7.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Other: Antec SpotCool ($15.00)
Total: $597.66
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-01-08 19:44 EST-0500

Edited by Lord Letto, 08 January 2015 - 04:45 PM.

[Smokeyjedi]

Well I see this thread has Exploded to pieces while I was away...........

First things first. Did u try the cfg file I gave you? Did it drastically improve MWO in every way shape and form?

Do you want to Overclock your PC for FREE.99$?

Or you can go ahead and spend those greenbacks?

Like I said If you did the cfg file you went 25% increase in MWO, theres another free 25% performance waiting for you to uncork......you already have a CPU cooler,you purchased the unlocked CPU. There is literally 2-3 things to do inside the BIOS to hit 4.5ghz on 6 cores......why wouldnt you?....afterwards If you still thought it to not be enough, take an 1155 socket upgrade path into I5/I7 Intel Z97

MWO would be the ONLY title that will struggle this hard to run smooth with FX6300@4.5ghz and GTX670.......................

[Smokeyjedi]

DV McKenna, on 08 January 2015 - 11:01 AM, said:

Do you think k this would work on an old 8120?

I still have mine tempted to test it.

I would guess it would help improve some, due to bulldozers inability to feed both threads on a module to saturation........there is a bottleneck before the 2 threads inside instruction set path? Zambezi changed this for its 15% IPC increase allowing both threads to be saturated to max,
Im guessing it would help. but the 8 cores on bulldozer are slower clock for clock. If I had more information on you rig you could see if you were already or able to overclock that 8 core, I did have mine @ 4.4? and 4.6'ish was absolute Max for me., I was limited by cooling back than now, not so much.......Try the whole cfg file thing out, tell me how it goes.......

Edited by Smokeyjedi, 08 January 2015 - 06:59 PM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Smokeyjedi, on 08 January 2015 - 06:56 PM, said:

I would guess it would help improve some, due to bulldozers inability to feed both threads on a module to saturation........there is a bottleneck before the 2 threads inside instruction set path? Zambezi changed this for its 15% IPC increase allowing both threads to be saturated to max,
Im guessing it would help. but the 8 cores on bulldozer are slower clock for clock. If I had more information on you rig you could see if you were already or able to overclock that 8 core, I did have mine @ 4.4? and 4.6'ish was absolute Max for me., I was limited by cooling back than now, not so much.......Try the whole thing out, tell me how it goes.......

It's what i had before moving to the Pentium K, an 8120 with a 990FX Asus Sabertooth board, Hyper Evo for cooling, i had it overclocked before to 4.5ghz but it didn't really help much, was just curious how much the cfg file you have would help it.

I have time tomorrow i might do it for curiosity.

[Goose]

Lord Letto, on 08 January 2015 - 04:32 PM, said:

Case Fan: Scythe Slipstream 110.3 CFM 120mm Fan ($7.99 @ SuperBiiz)

37dBa? Really?