56 replies to this topic

[Mechteric]

People just need to learn the difference between whining and legitimate concern for something. There's a difference.

[1453 R]

Question for you, Wildstreak, and for everyone else who’s all “don’t complain about people screaming at PGI to NERF ALL THE THINGZ!!!1!”

What would you like to see done, to redress these perceived imbalances in the game? Are you one of those who wants the Timber Wolf and the Stormcrow gutted, rendered as ineffective and easily dismantled as the Gargoyle? Are you one of those who wants to see the TDR-9S’s ERPPC quirks cut in half, or removed entirely?

Most of the folks trying to interject some sense into this chaos are just that – folks trying to interject sense. People on one side are claiming that the Stormcrow needs 40 degrees less twist arc and 50% accel/decal penalties, and that the Timber Wolf needs its turn and twist rates cut by thirty percent while also suffering those 50% a/d penalties they want to bolt on the Stormcrow. They want Clan ER weapons ranges cut down to Spheroid standard weapons ranges, without any accompanying upswings to account for the fact that the ER in the weapon’s name is now empirically, provably a lie. People on the other side are claiming that Thunderbolts are firing ER PPCs like they’re medium lasers and killing more babies per match than Boko Haram in a Christian girl’s school. Both sides look at the completely unreasonable demands hurled by the other side and get scornful, dismissive, and intractable, refusing to even think about sitting down and hashing out a compromise which might actually solve the problem.

It’s like watching Congress, except I don’t even have the option to not vote for these ******** next campaign season.

I could get into the tweaks and adjustments I think would go a long way towards addressing the issue (and will, if people are actually interested. Which I know they’re not), but what I would do is almost beside the point. The issue is that bad, angry Spheroid players want the Clan tech base ruined, and bad, angry Clan players want the Spheroid side’s new toys ruined, and neither set of bad, angry, extremely vocal players are willing to admit that ruining something is bad for the game as a whole.

Reactionary extremism never solved a single damn thing ever, and the people screaming blue murder on both sides of this debate are indulging in fits of knee-jerk reactionary extremism, attacking other players because they’re mad and they just want to take that mad out on someone. Until they knock that scheiss off, sit down, and think for five consecutive seconds instead of screeching like banshees (the Irish phantasms, not the ancient Steiner autocannon boats ), then all these complaint threads everyone’s throwing up are just so much noise.

Noise we don’t need, noise we don’t want, and noise that does no one any good.

So yes. Toughen up, slug it out, and maybe get together with some Clan-side players and put together reasonable proposals, hm? Maybe we can start kicking around that player council idea again, even though Russ and co. are communicating well enough these days that we don’t need it as much as we used to. Who knows. Anything that gets people off their soapboxes is worth investigating.

[Jolly Llama]

Whining about being called a whiner is still considered whining. Stop.

[Bishop Steiner]

Widowmaker1981, on 08 January 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

The vast majority of the time the people whining are wrong though. Usually people get killed by something either due to their own lack of skill or due to opponents high level of skill, and come whining to get whatever weapon they died to nerfed - because they cannot accept that they arent the best evar,

See all the LRM whine threads for example, when LRMs are trash 90% of the time against any semi competent player.

vast majority of time, people don't bother to check and see, with facts if the person is actually wrong, or not.

The moment someone's pet easy stick is targeted, no matter the faction, build, etc, then the person who point's out the imbalance is automatically "whining".

[MarineTech]

Wildstreak, on 08 January 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

I once worked in a data entry room providing assistance to people using computers.

Come on over to Systems and Operations for a while. I'm a BOFH and it's my user base over the last 16 years that have made me that way.

Here's an example. Keep in mind that our company has a written policy that all employees sign that they understand our network and computer assets are for WORK purposes only.

#1) Issue - Office manager from a remote field office calls saying users are all complaining that their internet connection for the office is too slow. States that network connection needs to be upgraded to higher bandwidth because employees are not able to get their work done. (Since that comes out of the IT budget instead of the office budget, CIO for the company has us look at the "problem.")

Resolution - Send the office manager for that field office copies of the proxy logs and network utilization that shows literally 73% of all traffic into that office is coming from Youtube videos, Vimeo, Hulu, and various streaming music sights. Suggest that he speak to the employees on the list and remind them of the personal use policy, but assure him we will be happy to upgrade his connection with the supplier if HE wants to pay out of his budget for employees personal internet browsing.

Outcome - Request withdrawn

I'm not even going to go into how this is certainly a "man up" situation.

[Jolly Llama]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

vast majority of time, people don't bother to check and see, with facts if the person is actually wrong, or not.

The moment someone's pet easy stick is targeted, no matter the faction, build, etc, then the person who point's out the imbalance is automatically "whining".

I have called nerf whiners, whiners since before ghost heat. Just leave the game alone, learn to play, and shut up. This constant, high pitched buzz on the forums about this or that being OP is nothing but a bunch of crying over what killed the posting whiner last. It has been going on for over a year and is getting out of control.

This place is starting to sound like a daycare center for spoiled teens.


*Edited for further sarcasm.

Edited by geodeath, 08 January 2015 - 11:15 AM.

[WarHippy]

Wildstreak, on 08 January 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

Because they do.

Let's examine what would happen to other things in life if we applied this 'belief.'

I once worked in a data entry room providing assistance to people using computers. These people would complain of problems with the devices or program used for the data entry. What if anytime thy had a complaint, I just told them to, 'Man Up!' and deal with their broken thing?

I worked in US Army Signal and later civilian telecommunications. At times things broke and I was one of the people who had to fix them. What if I was to tell someone with a problem they need to stop whining and, 'Man Up!'

I have lived through two terrorist attacks, working in the Trade Center during the 1993 bombing and not far away for 9-11. What if we told terror attack victims to, 'Man Up!' and help themselves out of what happened.

Best example yet, what if the MWO server has a problem and a portion of the community cannot get on maybe even all of us. PGI can tell us to, 'Man Up! Adapt and overcome, the problem is YOU and you need to stop whining! Now buy our new stuff.'

Those trying to pull ITGA (Internet Tough Guy Act) clearly must never have had a job to have the attitude they post with. Providing services to fix broken things and provide balance is a part of gaming, been that way since before Internet gaming existed and it is a part of many a business and service. The 'Man Up!' complainers also clearly spent too much time in extremist politics. Please take your own advice, Man Up! and leave your politics in the political arena where you have messed things up already. If I wanted to play a game of politics, I would have joined one or ran for office.

Is this your long winded way of saying you need a job? Because you are complaining about people complaining about people who complain. That being said sometimes you really do need to tell someone to "man up" or they will never make any progress.

[Bishop Steiner]

geodeath, on 08 January 2015 - 11:14 AM, said:

I have called nerf whiners, whiners since before ghost heat. Just leave the game alone, learn to play, and shut up. This constant, high pitched buzz on the forums about this or that being OP is nothing but a bunch of crying over what killed the posting whiner last. It has been going on for over a year and is getting out of control.

This place is starting to sound like a daycare center for spoiled teens.


*Edited for further sarcasm.

Then take your own advice, ignore the forums, shut up and learn to play however they change it, slick.

[Mercules]

MarineTech, on 08 January 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

I'm not even going to go into how this is certainly a "man up" situation.

That is a bit like how, doing tech support for an ISP, the company IT director insisted that Internet Tech Support be put onto his servers and network and utilize computers locked down by his policies. In other words, "I want your hardware and software budget for myself."

So finally our boss caved. Our computers came and they were not running an OS compatible with half our troubleshooting tools. They were sent back and reimaged with a new OS that came out of his budget for licenses. Aw... Computers came back and I swapped it out for my existing one, noted it was a slight upgrade, and started to do my work.

Within 20 minutes of me logging into it the head of IT was standing over my shoulder. I kid you not. He was suddenly over my shoulder yelling at me. Apparently the 2k viruses an hour the postmater mailbox I monitored crashed his exchange server and brought his network to a crawl. "Why are you downloading 3 gigs worth of mail!" I replied as calmly as I could, "Because it is my job?"

So after we got him out of heart attack mode he gave me back my old computer and told me to go back to the ISP servers/network and stay the hell off his as long as I was handling Postmaster and Abuse Department duties for the ISP.

All his talk about centralizing everything and ignoring the reality of what our team did for the company(we were doing simple data processing like 90% of it) resulted in him finally "manning up" and having ALL the techs move back to the ISP side of the network so we were experiencing the same issues as our customers and able to help them easier and not creating incredible levels of traffic on his network running monitoring software 24/7 on modem racks, DSLAMs and other hardware.

[Jolly Llama]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2015 - 11:15 AM, said:

Then take your own advice, ignore the forums, shut up and learn to play however they change it, slick.

When PGI stops listening to forum whine when nerfing, I will stop pointing my finger at those who whine to get a game changed to fit their unskilled playstyles.

[Kensaisama]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

vast majority of time, people don't bother to check and see, with facts if the person is actually wrong, or not.

The moment someone's pet easy stick is targeted, no matter the faction, build, etc, then the person who point's out the imbalance is automatically "whining".

While some of us just sit back and enjoy the show and occasionally poke the hornets nest with a long stick

[Bishop Steiner]

geodeath, on 08 January 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

When PGI stops listening to forum whine when nerfing, I will stop pointing my finger at those who whine to get a game changed to fit their unskilled playstyles.

in other words, we need to suck it up and play no matter what, but you can't practice what you preach.

Figured as much.

[Jolly Llama]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2015 - 11:30 AM, said:

in other words, we need to suck it up and play no matter what, but you can't practice what you preach.

Figured as much.

In other words, stop whining about the game and play with what you have. This forum started with a whiner whinging about being called a whiner. So I am pointing my finger at him and anyone else who complains simply to get a game that suits them better. My finger is pointing at you now...whiner.

[Joseph Mallan]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2015 - 11:30 AM, said:

in other words, we need to suck it up and play no matter what, but you can't practice what you preach.

Figured as much.

Not really Bish. You. StJobe. Mercules and a few others don't complain(snivel). You Complain(Disapprove). One is done in a mature fashion. One is "This is broke! Fix it or I will leave!"

[HARDKOR]

Hehe, all us IT guys are at our jobs, telling you to stop whining.

There's no such thing as balance wen it comes to guns and mechs. Please quit whining about it. You're as bad as the users who complain about the gear they are issued.

I wish we were still playing MW4 where the guns never changed from day one and they only fixed legitimate bugs like being able to shoot through hills. The whiners have made every gun in this game into a shadow of it's former self.

[Jolly Llama]

HARDKOR, on 08 January 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

Hehe, all us IT guys are at our jobs, telling you to stop whining.

There's no such thing as balance wen it comes to guns and mechs. Please quit whining about it. You're as bad as the users who complain about the gear they are issued.

I wish we were still playing MW4 where the guns never changed from day one and they only fixed legitimate bugs like being able to shoot through hills. The whiners have made every gun in this game into a shadow of it's former self.

Exactly, as soon as something is effective, people start crying that they are getting killed by it because they can't use a bunch of small lasers on an Atlas and win. Whiners.

Edited by geodeath, 08 January 2015 - 11:42 AM.

[Bhael Fire]

Wildstreak, on 08 January 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

I have lived through two terrorist attacks, working in the Trade Center during the 1993 bombing and not far away for 9-11. What if we told terror attack victims to, 'Man Up!' and help themselves out of what happened.

Did you just seriously compare terrorist attack survivors to people that complain about video games?

[Kensaisama]

Poke, poke, poke......... darn it this stick needs a buff.

[Joseph Mallan]

WarHippy, on 08 January 2015 - 11:15 AM, said:

Is this your long winded way of saying you need a job? Because you are complaining about people complaining about people who complain. That being said sometimes you really do need to tell someone to "man up" or they will never make any progress.

If WildStreak think I am acting like a Internet tough guy he should see how I talk to my bosses at work... Well the ones with their heads firmly in their ****** anyway!

Wildstreak, on 08 January 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

I have lived through two terrorist attacks, working in the Trade Center during the 1993 bombing and not far away for 9-11. What if we told terror attack victims to, 'Man Up!' and help themselves out of what happened.

Depending on the specific situation... It may have been the right solution. Sometimes kids gloves IS the wrong answer.

[WarHippy]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 January 2015 - 11:53 AM, said:

If WildStreak think I am acting like a Internet tough guy he should see how I talk to my bosses at work... Well the ones with their heads firmly in their ****** anyway!

Depending on the specific situation... It may have been the right solution. Sometimes kids gloves IS the wrong answer.

Having seen the pictures of you I would say you have every right to be an internet tough guy since you are rather intimidating in real life. Of course I have never been one to back down in real life or in digital life despite my general passive easy going real life persona so the idea of an internet tough guy has always been one of skeptical amusement.