653 replies to this topic

[Kuritaclan]

I made up once a suggestion to balance quirks within numbers of equiped weapons. I do not know how it bite the dust. It was when FS9-A was within the first quirk wave. 8lasers have lesser quirks than for example 6 or 4. Such things could help to balance quirks even better for given chassis. But the problem stands - binding quirks on equipment or number of equipment is a great deal for the programmers to work it in. And PGI will use every other solution before they use such complicated tweaks.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 08 January 2015 - 05:58 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Pariah Devalis, on 08 January 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

Arcing doesn't bother me per say, but the pinpoint damage to heat ratio feels off to me. The splash, while nice, is not why people would take the ERPPC, after all.

true, but maybe because of IS ER PPC, the heat to damage doesn't bug me much, since it has the min/max range adv over std ppcs. and weighs less. Just think with better projectile speed, they would be more reliable long range guns. but if they did more PP damage, I'd be afraid they would be too tempting to boat

Kuritaclan, on 08 January 2015 - 05:57 PM, said:

I made up once a suggestion to balance quirks within numbers of equiped weapons. I do not know how it bite the dust. It was when FS9-A was within the first quirk wave. 8lasers have lesser quirks than for example 6 or 4. Such things could help to balance quirks even better for given chassis. But the problem stands - binding quirks on equipment or number of equipment is a great deal for the programmers to work it in. And PGI will use every other solution before they use such complicated tweaks.

I remember and I really liked it. Diminishing gains. I also saw one someone suggested where the quirks on IS Battlemechs be tied to location, so the 9S could get 50% heat reduction to the PPC in it's RA, but since the RT was based around a flamer, it got no such quirk. Another way to minimize boating.

Not directly related, but definitely a good topic that should have a lengthy well put together thread, and then after it gets moving, be moved to Suggestions.

[Pariah Devalis]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

true, but maybe because of IS ER PPC, the heat to damage doesn't bug me much, since it has the min/max range adv over std ppcs. and weighs less. Just think with better projectile speed, they would be more reliable long range guns. but if they did more PP damage, I'd be afraid they would be too tempting to boat

People did not exactly boat them when they moved 1500 (was it 1500?), though, and they were stupid easy to snipe with back then.

Edit: Misread. Thought you meant tempting to boat if they moved faster.

Considering the sorry state of Clan PPFLD vs the IS, and the C-ERPPC being historically our big bad scary energy weapon, being a relatively light but extremely hot weapon system, it seems, at least to me in my probably delusional mind, to be a natural choice as a primary Clan weapon system, with the heat being the balancing mechanic to the damage. Alternatively, same damage as current, but slightly cooler due to the supposed Clan technological advances. The latter idea at least maintaining the current TTK instead of making it lower.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 08 January 2015 - 06:06 PM.

[1453 R]

I just don’t understand.

The Endo/Ferro unlocks are a fine idea and one I support (provided the upgrades are non-dynamic), but do we really need to follow it up with destroying the agility of both the Timber Wolf and the Stormcrow? I understand the Timber Wolf is overpowering at the moment and while I would still really like to investigate hitting its endurance rather than its mobility, at this point I’ve mostly just given up the ghost and accepted that the TBR’s going to end up VTR Giganerf’d because nobody can accept a ‘Mech that hits all three points on the speed/armor/weapons triangle, even if it gives up somewhere else. So, fine. Timber Wolves moving like Banshees, ho. Damnit…

But the Stormcrow, man? Do we really need to be slicing forty, or more, degrees off its twist arcs, the way I’ve seen some folks suggest, or hit it with its own VTR Giganerf and make it move like an Orion? I know, I know, the Stormcrow’s a really dangerous machine. It’s also the first medium ‘Mech in the history of MWO which people actually have to respect, instead of just ignoring. Would it be too much to ask for a hitbox investigation for the thing first, see if some explanation in the code somewhere exists for why the Stormcrow can take so much more damage than it seems to warrant, before we reduce it to being outmaneuvered by 250STD JagerMechs?

Really, Bishop. Normally you’re a swell guy with a good head on your shoulders, but I know for a fact that you’re a medium pilot by preference as well. Mediums are supposed to agile hunters (when they’re not cheap workhorse troopers, which is a classification that doesn’t exist in MWO due to lack-of-economics). We have one UND PRECISELY VUN medium that really fits the bill and makes people keep an eye on their flanks. All the rest are varying levels of garbage – I know, I own practically all of them and have piloted the crap out of them even though they’re largely worthless. So why advocate ruining the one medium ‘Mech we have in the game right now that can actually do its job, especially before looking into other options?

[Wintersdark]

Deathlike, on 08 January 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

Do you not use Artemis with your Streaks?

LOS is not an issue.

Artemis doesn't impact streak spread, because streaks don't spread like SRM's; they just target random mech components then track to those components.

Artemis DOES increase streak lock times,though, and as it doesn't add to streak launcher size/weight, its great to have.

Personally, though, I far prefer ASRM's to streaks nearly 100% of the time. Much higher DPS, and I have nobtroublw hutting lights with them. No chance of being c**kblocked by multiple ECM, or need to take an active probe either. You're a viable threat to big mechs too, where streaks are extremely unreliable.

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 08 January 2015 - 06:47 PM, said:

I just don’t understand.

The Endo/Ferro unlocks are a fine idea and one I support (provided the upgrades are non-dynamic), but do we really need to follow it up with destroying the agility of both the Timber Wolf and the Stormcrow? I understand the Timber Wolf is overpowering at the moment and while I would still really like to investigate hitting its endurance rather than its mobility, at this point I’ve mostly just given up the ghost and accepted that the TBR’s going to end up VTR Giganerf’d because nobody can accept a ‘Mech that hits all three points on the speed/armor/weapons triangle, even if it gives up somewhere else. So, fine. Timber Wolves moving like Banshees, ho. Damnit…

But the Stormcrow, man? Do we really need to be slicing forty, or more, degrees off its twist arcs, the way I’ve seen some folks suggest, or hit it with its own VTR Giganerf and make it move like an Orion? I know, I know, the Stormcrow’s a really dangerous machine. It’s also the first medium ‘Mech in the history of MWO which people actually have to respect, instead of just ignoring. Would it be too much to ask for a hitbox investigation for the thing first, see if some explanation in the code somewhere exists for why the Stormcrow can take so much more damage than it seems to warrant, before we reduce it to being outmaneuvered by 250STD JagerMechs?

Really, Bishop. Normally you’re a swell guy with a good head on your shoulders, but I know for a fact that you’re a medium pilot by preference as well. Mediums are supposed to agile hunters (when they’re not cheap workhorse troopers, which is a classification that doesn’t exist in MWO due to lack-of-economics). We have one UND PRECISELY VUN medium that really fits the bill and makes people keep an eye on their flanks. All the rest are varying levels of garbage – I know, I own practically all of them and have piloted the crap out of them even though they’re largely worthless. So why advocate ruining the one medium ‘Mech we have in the game right now that can actually do its job, especially before looking into other options?

Dude. R-E-L-A-X.

Breath in.... breath out.

Read what I said. Is 10% deceleration/acceleration is going to magically ruin the mech? REALLY? Or a small reduction in twist speed? Why does it need to be best at everything? Why is it always "any nerf must automatically be end of world giganerf"?

[Pariah Devalis]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

Dude. R-E-L-A-X.

Breath in.... breath out.

Read what I said. Is 10% deceleration/acceleration is going to magically ruin the mech? REALLY? Or a small reduction in twist speed? Why does it need to be best at everything? Why is it always "any nerf must automatically be end of world giganerf"?

Because human psychology. Run against two shoals here, I am afraid. One, people tend to feel comfortable in their homes when dealing with the internet, and any affront is taken as an attack in their home, as opposed to a nebulous space consisting of electrons. Second, people hate their things being nerfed in any way shape or form, but love it when they get buffed.

The second issue is something I have been trying to preach to PGI for ages now. Start underpowered, but close-ish to where you want things. Then rapidly iterate with small buffs until you are about right. Nobody is subjected to OP, nobody feels like their toys were broken. Win win.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 08 January 2015 - 07:11 PM.

[1453 R]

Pariah Devalis, on 08 January 2015 - 07:00 PM, said:

Because human psychology. Run against two shoals here, I am afraid. One, people tend to feel comfortable in their homes when dealing with the internet, and any affront is taken as an attack in their home, as opposed to a nebulous space consisting of electrons. Second, people hate their things being nerfed in any way shape or form, but love it when they get buffed.

The second issue is something I have been trying to preach to PGI for ages now. Start underpowered, but close-ish to where you want things. Then rapidly iterate with small buffs until you are about right. Nobody is subjected to OP, nobody feels like their toys were broken. Win win.

Thanks, Pariah. Much appreciated. Good to know how incredibly low your opinion of me is. If I may speak for myself on this one for just a moment...

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

Dude. R-E-L-A-X.

Breath in.... breath out.

Read what I said. Is 10% deceleration/acceleration is going to magically ruin the mech? REALLY? Or a small reduction in twist speed? Why does it need to be best at everything? Why is it always "any nerf must automatically be end of world giganerf"?

Because that's how Piranha works. It's what Piranha does. What, in the history of this game, has made you think Piranha is capable of successive small, iterative changes? Even this most recent balance pass has its own grandiose name to go with its grandiose, enormous implementation - the Quirkening. The company's been on the ball, improving their game (and their game) excellently for the last half-odd year, but they're still "Wild Mood Swings" Piranha Games.

Paul and Russ are all too likely to treat twenty percent cuts to turn speed, twist speed, and arm movement on the Timber Wolf and the Stormcrow as a start point and then get progressively more ruthless from there. If the Stormcrow's twist arcs stay above 90 degrees pre-efficiencies I would be absolutely stunned. These men are not known for small gestures, and I do not and never have liked the idea of giving folks who use chainsaws instead of chisels the idea that Something Must Be Done.

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 08 January 2015 - 07:30 PM, said:

Thanks, Pariah. Much appreciated. Good to know how incredibly low your opinion of me is. If I may speak for myself on this one for just a moment...



Because that's how Piranha works. It's what Piranha does. What, in the history of this game, has made you think Piranha is capable of successive small, iterative changes? Even this most recent balance pass has its own grandiose name to go with its grandiose, enormous implementation - the Quirkening. The company's been on the ball, improving their game (and their game) excellently for the last half-odd year, but they're still "Wild Mood Swings" Piranha Games.

Paul and Russ are all too likely to treat twenty percent cuts to turn speed, twist speed, and arm movement on the Timber Wolf and the Stormcrow as a start point and then get progressively more ruthless from there. If the Stormcrow's twist arcs stay above 90 degrees pre-efficiencies I would be absolutely stunned. These men are not known for small gestures, and I do not and never have liked the idea of giving folks who use chainsaws instead of chisels the idea that Something Must Be Done.

so because something MIGHT be done wrong, we should do nothing at all?
We have to start somewhere. And Overall, the quirks and such have been pretty well done, with yes some notable exceptions. But I'm sorry, just because you are afraid they might nerf it too much, is no excuse to leave it obviously OP.

Heck, I run TWs in CGBI. It's not like I'm trying to ruin the Clans. But for there to be any chance at real, solid balance, we have to be honest about what is broken, and willing to do the logical things needed to try to fix it. Russ has tried to avoid nerfs at all. And a lot of the newer quirks, HAVE been incremental.

Instead of screaming the sky is falling before it's even started to tilt, let's try to have a reasonable and rational dialogue HERE.

Because if we can't have a reasonable one amongst ourselves, why should we expect PGI to take anything we say seriously, anyhow?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 January 2015 - 07:41 PM.

[1453 R]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2015 - 07:40 PM, said:

so because something MIGHT be done wrong, we should do nothing at all?
We have to start somewhere. And Overall, the quirks and such have been pretty well done, with yes some notable exceptions. But I'm sorry, just because you are afraid they might nerf it too much, is no excuse to leave it obviously OP.

Heck, I run TWs in CGBI. It's not like I'm trying to ruin the Clans. But for there to be any chance at real, solid balance, we have to be honest about what is broken, and willing to do the logical things needed to try to fix it. Russ has tried to avoid nerfs at all. And a lot of the newer quirks, HAVE been incremental.

Instead of screaming the sky is falling before it's even started to tilt, let's try to have a reasonable and rational dialogue HERE.

Because if we can't have a reasonable one amongst ourselves, why should we expect PGI to take anything we say seriously, anyhow?

If you're prepared for the Timber Wolf to move like a Banshee and for the Stormcrow to move like an Orion, and for those states to last until 2017, then all right. I simply caution you to remember how impossibly long it took them to un-jack the Victor, and that they hit the Victor with precisely and exactly the wrong Giganerfs in the first place, not even remotely dampening its effectiveness as a poptart while essentially destroying it as the fast, heavy strike-brawler everyone actually wanted it to be.

The Summoner should get more playtime, on this you and I both can agree - but not at the cost of the Timber Wolf becoming essentially unplayable, hm?

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

not what I was referring to.

I was referring to sticking to the topic, and not all the "future internals and armors and such" that might be, and stick to things that are "doable", now. Because otherwise, we are just going to see lots of quirks, and as we are seeing with the IS mechs, they are ....... not very good at consistency or moderation with those. Where Paul was "nerf everything", Russ appears to be "over buff everything".

Both approaches can be equally game breaking.

We're gonna see lots of quirks even if Pee Gee Eye implements your thread's proposal tomorrow. Endo/FF swapping won't in any way benefit the MLX, KFX, or ADR for starters (I don't need to get into detail on those...). Maybe even your beloved Thor might need some too (although to a lower magnitude), and likely the Gargles as well. The WHK won't gain much, since finding crit space to use that free ton on might be hard...

I personally fear for the future of the Linebacker, which is later timeline 65 ton heavy mech with the same firepower (literally, it has 16.5 tons of pod space!) as an Adder (well, and the same speed, but at a great cost...).


Basically, we've got two main choices so far for trying to level the playing field a bit within the Clan lineup:
A. Unlock Endo/FF and use quirks

B. Use quirks alone



Another side-note is that option A could potentially lead to more Clan weapon/tech nerfs in the future. Part of the "hidden" balancing of Clan guns is that most of the Clan robots have some kind of innate weakness or another (with exceptions, of course...).

How else can we justify the Clan SRM6 having the same tonnage as an IS SSRM2 but being three times as powerful (before we count that it can be aimed)? Or the Clan Gauss having the same tonnage as the AC/10 but being actually good, or the ERML being so amazeballs, etc. Unintended consequences...

Edited by FupDup, 08 January 2015 - 08:09 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 08 January 2015 - 07:51 PM, said:

If you're prepared for the Timber Wolf to move like a Banshee and for the Stormcrow to move like an Orion, and for those states to last until 2017, then all right. I simply caution you to remember how impossibly long it took them to un-jack the Victor, and that they hit the Victor with precisely and exactly the wrong Giganerfs in the first place, not even remotely dampening its effectiveness as a poptart while essentially destroying it as the fast, heavy strike-brawler everyone actually wanted it to be.

The Summoner should get more playtime, on this you and I both can agree - but not at the cost of the Timber Wolf becoming essentially unplayable, hm?

Lol.

You're as intractable as Roland or Vassago on this stuff. Stop that, dangit. You know that as soon as Russ took over from Paul, he started the work on quirks, and that as soon as those were "ready" the VTR was unnerfed. Then after what a month of Quirks, Russ took the input, and did Quirks 2.0.

Still not perfect by any means, but a heck of a lot faster response time than "same ol PGI".

You yourself have acknowledged the last half year PGI has been a much different entity. So instead of assuming the worst, let's see what happens. The TW is far too iconic for them to screw that badly and leave it. But stop pretending it doesn't NEED to be brought in line with the other Clan Mechs.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 January 2015 - 08:21 PM.

[InspectorG]

Endo would be nice.
But is 'unlocking' more work for PGI than just switching it with Ferro?

Other than Lore, what are the advantages to Ferro in MWO? None?

Easiest fix for most of the Clan 'B-team' is gonna be quirks and maybe a couple extra omnipods-which i dont care about lore as long as the 'theme' is kept.

Summoner should be quick and agile. Make those JJ boost instead of 'hoveround'.
Nimble striker kinda needs agility and weapons that dont require 4 hour burn times.

So, without giving PGI too much work:
2 new side torso omnis with 2E each. SHouldne be hard to model/map.

Prime gets erppc quirks similar but not as big as Thud 9S. Return of poptarting? Dunno. But it would be THE Clan choice for FLPPD

Energy boat gets heat/duration buffs ala Thud 5SS/Cicada B/etc. Less heat, less facetime for the Wubbing.

Missile boat gets generic*yawn* missile quirks but maybe a free 360 target retention could be interesting. Summoner has a nice cockpit...

Nova...I dont know what is gonna fix dose hitboxes. Its like the Nova owed money to several local mob bosses and the IRS. Got caught. Was beaten for 6 weeks straight. And after it healed and they removed the bandages, they found a big swollen monster that will never move right ever again...

Missile pods, energy heat quirks, Ballistics quirks(dont shoot the floor...), BIG BOOST to JJ. MAYBE a ERPPC/Gauss build with nice airtime? Dont know how to fix that one, maybe they all get a 50% Cbill bonus as an apology?

Gargles? See Nova. Maybe more to offer.

Myth Leeks, structure and speed should work.

Ice Furreal, no idea. Torso hardpoints?

Warhawk doesnt seem too bad, but i understand its hardpoint choked?

[Kuritaclan]

InspectorG, on 08 January 2015 - 08:22 PM, said:

Nova...I dont know what is gonna fix dose hitboxes. Its like the Nova owed money to several local mob bosses and the IRS. Got caught. Was beaten for 6 weeks straight. And after it healed and they removed the bandages, they found a big swollen monster that will never move right ever again...

I do not know why this story remind me to: "The Hunchback of Notre-Dame" while we actually have a mech called hunchback.

[Praehotec8]

Gyrok, on 08 January 2015 - 04:33 PM, said:

Honestly...the clan engines are not really the issue with clans...

The issue with clans...honestly, is the lack of variety in weapons viability. The only thing competitive for clans is lasers, anything not named L4Z0Rz is in pitiful shape....except gauss.

Now, all you see worth mentioning for builds are basically...X version of laser puke on 1 of 3 chassis (of which the DW is not one of those...).

The other big issue I see with clans is basically that the bad chassis are terribad (Tier 4/5), and the good chassis are Tier 1 (NOT some "God Tier 0" either mind you). Plus, you cannot get any 2 people to agree on what makes a clan mech good, much less can you even get 2 people to agree how good or bad they are. In many cases you cannot even get 2 people to agree that clan mechs are even "too good" at all...

I think these are all excellent points, particularly that getting everyone to agree on anything is difficult. In particular I would love to see some changes to clan UACs (increased projectile speed or decrease in time between pellets leaving the cannon especially), but that's beside the point of the thread.

Unlocking endosteel and FF armor would be fantastic, in my opinion., at improving many of the clan mechs without making the best ones better. I don't personally feel changes to the clan XLs are 100% needed, BUT I do think that we won't get unlocked structural changes without a compensatory debuff...it just isn't likely to happen. You would hear the screams from the Inner sphere all the way back to Strana Mechty. Since the clan weapons don't warrant nerfing at this point (IMO), I think a side torso loss penalty would be a good option for balancing the clans while not over-weakening them or hurting a few while leaving the rest untouched.

[Alek Ituin]

1453 R, on 08 January 2015 - 06:47 PM, said:

We have one UND PRECISELY VUN medium that really fits the bill and makes people keep an eye on their flanks. All the rest are varying levels of garbage – I know, I own practically all of them and have piloted the crap out of them even though they’re largely worthless. So why advocate ruining the one medium ‘Mech we have in the game right now that can actually do its job, especially before looking into other options?

The Centurion would like a word with you. Considering I can regularly b*tch slap Storm Crows with my Wang, I take offense to the Cent being called garbage. Just because the Storm Crow is medium easy-mode, doesn't mean it can't be beaten with some skilled piloting in a classic Mech.

[SaltBeef]

I still think this is pure horsehart propaganda. The Timber Wolf has a lot of space yes can boast laser vomit yes..but is in no way the Superhero mech on arse firing destruction most IS player whine piss and moan about daily. I rarely pilot them I do better in lesser Clan mechs with higher damage and kills. The Stormcrow gets the IS pilots crying for bottled Milk because it can rapidly remove the Fire starter, ( a seriously broken Mech ) from the battlefield with boatloads of streaks. Frankly I am getting Bored with the Nerfed Clan mechs they need loving and quick.

Edited by SaltBeef, 08 January 2015 - 11:02 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alek Ituin, on 08 January 2015 - 10:17 PM, said:

The Centurion would like a word with you. Considering I can regularly b*tch slap Storm Crows with my Wang, I take offense to the Cent being called garbage. Just because the Storm Crow is medium easy-mode, doesn't mean it can't be beaten with some skilled piloting in a classic Mech.

I own all the Mediums. Only ones I don't wreck face in are cicadas.....but I see enough other people do just fine. But put me in a Centy, Hunch or SHD? I am going to kill a lot of people.

[Demuder]

I don't understand why buffing clearly underpowered mechs should come at the cost of nerfing something else on them or even other mechs.

Trading endo/FF customization for Clan XL nerfs ? Why ? That's not called a buff, it's called a trade-off. Mechs like the Summoner or the Nova or the Gargoyle need straight out, honest buffs to become effective. Sure, people use them and some are effective in them, considering their piloting skills - but all mechs can become effective considering piloting skills, so that point is moot. Afraid of having them become overpowered ? That's easy to avoid, just don't go overboard with the buffs, TDR style. I bet that TDR would be just as effective with half the quirk benefits, but no, PGI had to just go overboard on that - forum wars for no reason at all.

As for the TBR, go ahead, nerf it. But how ? For me, it's exceptional in only one thing. It's agile/mobile enough to dictate the range it engages at. Anything else, it's on par with anything the IS can field. Short range it has a very good punch (no PPFLD mind you, just laservomit and SRMs) that gets too hot and easily outbrawled, long range it has a huge center mass that makes taking shots at it easy and it's rather low hardpoints don't help it either. How exactly do you "balance" this ? If PGI hadn't messed up Clan weapons so badly, maybe there could be a way to do it. Nerfing Clan XLs just to hurt the survivability of the TBR would also mean that the rest of the Clan take a huge unnecessary hit.

Same goes for the SCR. It's a good mech, that goes without saying. Sure, it's fast and can backstab you dead. Same as the TBR, very good punch, high heat. It's survivable because of it's weird frame, it doesn't have a huge center torso so most people don't know where to shoot, spreading damage all over and it's "thin", with empty space between torso and arms, making it harder to target. How does this get nerfed ? You make it bigger ? You make it slower ?

Unfortunately, normalizing the curve - as Bishop very eloquently put it in an earlier post - is not that easy; in fact it's downright impossible without PGI taking a deep breath, acknowledging the balance problem and redesigning Clan weapons, pods, quirks and chassis from the bottom up.

[Lily from animove]

1453 R, on 08 January 2015 - 06:47 PM, said:

I just don’t understand.

The Endo/Ferro unlocks are a fine idea and one I support (provided the upgrades are non-dynamic), but do we really need to follow it up with destroying the agility of both the Timber Wolf and the Stormcrow? I understand the Timber Wolf is overpowering at the moment and while I would still really like to investigate hitting its endurance rather than its mobility, at this point I’ve mostly just given up the ghost and accepted that the TBR’s going to end up VTR Giganerf’d because nobody can accept a ‘Mech that hits all three points on the speed/armor/weapons triangle, even if it gives up somewhere else. So, fine. Timber Wolves moving like Banshees, ho. Damnit…

But the Stormcrow, man? Do we really need to be slicing forty, or more, degrees off its twist arcs, the way I’ve seen some folks suggest, or hit it with its own VTR Giganerf and make it move like an Orion? I know, I know, the Stormcrow’s a really dangerous machine. It’s also the first medium ‘Mech in the history of MWO which people actually have to respect, instead of just ignoring. Would it be too much to ask for a hitbox investigation for the thing first, see if some explanation in the code somewhere exists for why the Stormcrow can take so much more damage than it seems to warrant, before we reduce it to being outmaneuvered by 250STD JagerMechs?

Really, Bishop. Normally you’re a swell guy with a good head on your shoulders, but I know for a fact that you’re a medium pilot by preference as well. Mediums are supposed to agile hunters (when they’re not cheap workhorse troopers, which is a classification that doesn’t exist in MWO due to lack-of-economics). We have one UND PRECISELY VUN medium that really fits the bill and makes people keep an eye on their flanks. All the rest are varying levels of garbage – I know, I own practically all of them and have piloted the crap out of them even though they’re largely worthless. So why advocate ruining the one medium ‘Mech we have in the game right now that can actually do its job, especially before looking into other options?

The issue is accelerating and torso twist are bound to engine size, and this makes the SCR and TBR too agile. yes they should kep their speed but but having more torsotwistspeed with that tonnage compared to lower less engined machines is not good. That seems to be wrong. Maybe torsotwisspeed should never had been related to engine rating. it should have been a fixed number. Acrs are fine but the speed even an unskilled SCR twists, WHAOH thats epic, thats too much. thats agile like a light mech while being armed as a heavy.

So giving the TBR for example some 5% less torso twist speed and angle and acceleration/break debuff would not be an supernerf but it would make the mehc more lik a heavy mech instead of a medium with heavy rmor and assault weapon laodout. Yet it would not lsoe the speed raching a battlefield form A to B. So it cna still change position faster than many other heavies. I just can dance around like mediums/low heavieys anymore.

InspectorG, on 08 January 2015 - 08:22 PM, said:

Nova...I dont know what is gonna fix dose hitboxes. Its like the Nova owed money to several local mob bosses and the IRS. Got caught. Was beaten for 6 weeks straight. And after it healed and they removed the bandages, they found a big swollen monster that will never move right ever again...

you can't "fix" thsose hitboxes, The design of the Nova is the design of the Nova. Only "fix" would be what the dragon got: internal structure buffs. Or significant acceleration buffs so that you can appear and disappear faster maybe a good mix of both.

I would like to see:

+10% acceleration
+10% break efficiency
+10% Torso Turn Rate

then it would start feeling like a medium and less like a heavy

currently a arm has 48 HP on a nova an its by size ahrd to kiss. current alphabuilds can shoot of an arm easily in single volley. Especially when its lsightly scratched already.

+10 Structure HP LA
+10 Structure HP RA

+10 Structure HP LT
+10 Structure HP RT

+15 Structure HP CT

I mean lets be realistic, the thunderbolt doesn't even have bad Sidetorso Hitboxes, but it received massive 15 LP on each, WHY?
Even CTF's reveived 7 structure HP (No idea why CTF was alwas great and could awesomely twist damage) and arm Structure points they got as well.
The dragon got 25 CT structure.
The shadowhawk received amazingly 9 arm HP, it doesn't even have bad arm sizes (compared to a nova).
The HBK got 12 hp for the hunch internal and 18! additional armor (thats 30 totally), yet that hunch in comaprison tho the Novas Hitboxes isn't even big.
Centurion got 16! arm HP.
Even the vindicator got arm LP of 7.
Mist lynx got 12 leg HP and 7 arm hp. and cmon, the ravel 2X even got 12 arm armor, what arms? it does no even have some if you take itheit sze and the raven speed into account.
tiny commando arms got 8 HP.

And by all these HP buffs those mechs with their in comparison tiny hitboxes, I think my numbers are realistic and not over the top. And they are neede dbecause the Nova is wide as an Assault but slow as a heavy/medium. The yare not tkane out of my butt, they are taken form the comparison what other mechs have received, and what the size of their hitboxes are. and many of them have less hitbox issues and received a lot better buffs.

And yet these buffs will not even make the Nova as good as an SCR, the SCR is still faster, can still pack more weapon laodout. We just fix the issues of the nova with those buffs to give the Nova a medium mech feeling without being an instagib. The SCR has still way better hitboxes and hardpoints while after those quriks armor is now similar.

The Nova runs hot, of course every mehc having 12 E wepaons would run hot. But that is totally ok.

and tbh, I would even bring back the 5% cooldown penalty for the prime arms, to make a difference between them and the S arms. The mech may need buffs, but this does not mean the omnipodbalance of the nova doesn't needs a few small own tweaks.

Edited by Lily from animove, 09 January 2015 - 03:26 AM.