24 replies to this topic

[Demuder]

Ultimatum X, on 10 January 2015 - 09:07 AM, said:

Unfortunately the instinct to go CT is simply too strong in some people, that's their fault though.

I don't think it's an instinct per se, going for "center mass" is the first thing anyone that shoots a weapon does - it's bigger, it's easier to hit, it's the logical thing to do - until your marksmanship and understanding of the game evolve. TBR has a huge center mass, CT+STs. If the TBR's pilot has an appropriate build he can sort of "torso twist", he will lose half the mech but probably the other (better half) will keep on rocking, much like STKs. Still, every shot will probably hit somewhere because of the sheer size of the TBR's center mass relative to it's arms and legs.

That's why believe the SCR is so durable. It doesn't have magic or even good hitboxes, it's just that it's shape is so unfamiliar to the human archetype shape, without a prominent center mass, that people don't concentrate their fire on a specific place even when you are standing almost still. When I get focused in my SCR, each player shooting at me shoots at a different part of the mech.

[Lily from animove]

Ultimatum X, on 10 January 2015 - 09:07 AM, said:

A funny observation on good/optimal hitboxes and these forums.


One of the biggest complaints, not by me, on these forums is often TTK being too low.

The few mechs that have excellent hitboxes and therefore survive longer, get complained about and people want them nerfed.

This is why the Victor & Highlanders got the nerfs they did, the goal was to make it easier for them to kill and more difficult for them to fight at close range.


Is this a case of "if my mech can't have it, then no one's can."?


I don't find Stormcrows or Timber Wolves particularly difficult to kill relative to their tonnage, but I suppose I did spend some extra time learning their hitboxes and recognizing when I could take out STs or go for CT or when I needed to go for legs.


I've been on teams where you watch guys go CT every single time, even if other components are weak.

I've seen situations where a target caller is calling legs and some go CT anyway.

Unfortunately the instinct to go CT is simply too strong in some people, that's their fault though.

no the issue is a bad hitbox mech is a bad hitbox mech, just giving such a mech hitpoints thats a lot harder to balance at all, yes you can give it more hitpoints, but that does not change th fact of bad hitboxes. This also is not an equally distributed buff/nerf, because a mech that has high alphas may still need the same amount of alphas to kill you. because if he does 25dmg overkill a buff by 15 hp is not helping. And therefore these kind of buffs only help the pilot vs lesser gunned mechs, or in reverse, the buffwould penelise mechs and loudouts not specialised on alphas.
While nerfing the mech that is betetr by what the victor got, this "nerf" distributes more equally for all opponents.

Edited by Lily from animove, 10 January 2015 - 02:06 PM.

[Deathlike]

Demuder, on 10 January 2015 - 03:37 AM, said:

I fear re-reading my post made me realize I might have sounded dismissive or arrogant, it was not my intention - for this, I apologize - thank you for taking the time to word a proper reply.

It's OK, I've seen worse. It's hard to write up stuff and not get criticized for it.

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The thing is though, that with these two mechs, their power does not come from one single thing. Their power comes from being in the sweet spot of their class/available upgrades/available hardpoints/mech design/etc. They are in effect, a greater entity than the mere sum of their parts - something that can be found in other mechs as well, such as the Firestarter, Stalker, Hunchback, Atlas, etc. The pronounced defects on their Clan siblings only makes that standout more, as well.

Sure. I think people tend to overstate the benefits of a good mech, and yet just as well overstate the "terribadness" of a bad mech. Of course, there's the natural tendency to defend your favorite mech. It happens.

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That's why there's threads like yours with an original post of 2500 words trying to describe it and your run of the mill "NERF THE TIMBERGOD" outcries. And that's also the reason the replies in those threads are either 2500 word posts trying to describe how these mechs are not overpowered or snide 1-liners about how the TBR/SCR are just fine.

Well, people do occasionally say IS Med Lasers are OP... at least that requires a blue moon or an Urbanmech sighting.

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The only way to "nerf" those two mechs would be to either,
a.) destroy them - a la Victor, where the problem was not the Victor per se but JJ sniping+PPFLD+good hitboxes
b.) destroy systems unrelated to the TBR/SCR - such as Clan XLs, Clan weapons, etc

So I'd suggest that we avoid the trap of focusing on the TBR and SCR - and TDR even. There's a lot problems that can be resolved if PGI decided to take another look at their Clan - IS weapon balancing, mech customization options, etc etc.

Well, I'd like to see the bad mechs buffed first before an across the board clan nerf is instituted. We barely managed to survive that from the initial wave (for lasers, both pulse and regular).. at least Russ has "properly" normalized the values for the most part, but as I've said before... the quirks really need more people looking at the really bad ideas that were made previously... and honestly put a stop to that.

It is honestly possible that the Timberwolf got all the perfect conglomeration of hardpoints and other stuff, but then it comes to the question whether there is something on the IS side that can properly compete with it.

It makes me wonder if the Black Knight should've been released... since it would be energy/laser vomit that could potentially compete instead of the Grasshopper...

We'll see.

[Lily from animove]

Deathlike, on 10 January 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

It's OK, I've seen worse. It's hard to write up stuff and not get criticized for it.



Sure. I think people tend to overstate the benefits of a good mech, and yet just as well overstate the "terribadness" of a bad mech. Of course, there's the natural tendency to defend your favorite mech. It happens.




Well, people do occasionally say IS Med Lasers are OP... at least that requires a blue moon or an Urbanmech sighting.



Well, I'd like to see the bad mechs buffed first before an across the board clan nerf is instituted. We barely managed to survive that from the initial wave (for lasers, both pulse and regular).. at least Russ has "properly" normalized the values for the most part, but as I've said before... the quirks really need more people looking at the really bad ideas that were made previously... and honestly put a stop to that.

It is honestly possible that the Timberwolf got all the perfect conglomeration of hardpoints and other stuff, but then it comes to the question whether there is something on the IS side that can properly compete with it.

It makes me wonder if the Black Knight should've been released... since it would be energy/laser vomit that could potentially compete instead of the Grasshopper...

We'll see.

depends where PGi will put the hardpoints at. but laservomitwise the knight has good potential.

[Deathlike]

Lily from animove, on 10 January 2015 - 02:08 PM, said:

depends where PGi will put the hardpoints at. but laservomitwise the knight has good potential.

Outside of the potential of hardpoint inflation, it's not too hard to find out where those locations happen to be.