60 replies to this topic

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Escef, on 10 January 2015 - 07:39 PM, said:

Guy I know that likes to run LRM100 Stalkers.

I want to try one. Haven't seen one yet though

[Escef]

Votanin FleshRender, on 10 January 2015 - 07:42 PM, said:

I can see why people that want to hide in the back and not get their paint scratched would be afraid to use tag....

What kind of idiot sits there and says, "Hey, I'm running indirect fire weapons that are less efficient than direct fire weapons. I think installing a complimentary system designed for spotters and that requires I expose myself is a great idea!"

Flight speed of LRMs: 160 m/s

Recycle of AC5: 1.66 sec

Think about that. At 600 meters an LRM boat gets shot 2 times before the first missile hits. Assuming one AC5. Most people carry them in pairs. And heavens forbid if you come across one of the quad AC5 monsters. And that's pinpoint damage, not sandblasting like LRMs do. Exposing yourself in an LRM boat is an idiot's proposition.

[Escef]

Shiroi Tsuki, on 10 January 2015 - 07:49 PM, said:

I want to try one. Haven't seen one yet though

You can fit 5xLRM20 on a Stalker 5M, a 250 std engine, endo steel, and 12 tons of ammo... Armor? What's armor?

It's a stupidly risky build, I'd never use it. But so long as you have team mates that can spot and screen you, you'll be ok. The structure is tough enough to take a few light hits. I recall that I once hunted him down in a Timby while he was using something like that, I ripped his LRM60 side off before his bodyguards put me down.

[Krysic]

Maccasimus, on 10 January 2015 - 11:58 AM, said:

There's something you can do, right now, without any nerfs or anything, to stop people lrm boating.

Get in a light mech. Probably need a 30+ tonner but the ecm spider also does the job nicely. Then play like a light. Scout. Increase battlefield awareness for your team.

Then if you see the tell tale cloud of missiles launching from somewhere behind enemy lines, sneak over there and shoot the lrm boat in the back.

As an added perk lights are often below %20 so you'll get plenty of opportunities to practice the art of light.

I am a light pilot by primary. (won't spend much money on the game, don't believe in macro transactions for things that don't actually exist) and I can tell you that this is harder than it sounds. Plus half the clan mechs boating LRMs also have a ton of other weapons and the turning speed to make them light dangerous. There's a reason only nutjobs like me play lights by preference.

[wanderer]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 10 January 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

I actually feel like LRMs should be unguided direct fire only, with faster travel speeds and much shallower flight path, and indirect fire on targets with narc/tag.

To be an effective weapon, velocity would have to be insane for a 1000m+ effective range weapon.

CocoaJin, on 10 January 2015 - 02:51 PM, said:

All I ask is that any LRM boat on my team carry at least one medium laser, that's it. Nothing worse than seeing a LRM boat power down toward the end of a match with 2-3 bad guys left and everybody but them with tangerine and red CTs.

Ask nothing more than the ability got the LRM boat to sweep a single, solitary laser around to help his best up team clear the remaining enemy...that's it...be able to deliver a few points of direct fire damage in a pinch.

An LRM boat that doesn't carry a backup gun has his head located firmly between his buttcheeks.

I mean, I've taken my Orion into CW (and back it up with a laserboat and a PPC carrier on the deck) and usually start with it.

Why? Because it's good for pinning targets, and it's good for lending firepower to my lights as they're chasing enemy lights across the map where I can't get a clean hit with my lasers. It lets me drop shots over the gates accurately and hose targets down without being exposed to sniper fire, and when they do get in I'm greeting them with full armor, laser blazing, and my TAG doing it's best to shut down ECM and expose them to the team. Once I'm dry and beaten up, I'll punch out and get into the other heavies- but being able to lob indirect fire in has broken more than one rush where I'd have never lined up the critical shots otherwise in any other heavy.

People get amazingly mad at my Orion. I count that as doing my job every time I mangle a Fedrat.

Edited by wanderer, 10 January 2015 - 09:19 PM.

[Kilo 40]

I just loooove the irrational hatred of LRMs. The tears taste so sweet...

[cSand]

nope I love em


tasty snacks

[zortesh]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 10 January 2015 - 12:23 PM, said:

Own Narc? Nah. Own tag? Yes. Narc is better in a coordinated pairing/group, not necessarily on the LRM boat.

Tag is worthless against worthwhile opponents, only an incompetent lets someone tag them long enough for missiles to land.

Escef, on 10 January 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

NARCing is for fast movers (because you can't expect them to hold TAG on the target while moving), TAG is for brawlers. LRM boats should be LRMs (Artemis optional), ammo, a few heat sinks, some backup MLs, and an engine at least big enough to keep up with the pack. NARC travels so slowly that the accuracy is horrible outside of close range, which puts the LRM boat at risk of being overrun, and TAG requires too much face-time.

Tag is worthless except for brawlers, noone should ever take a tag if a narc is a option.

I have only ever narced from assaults, mediums and heavies, all lrmboats.. narcing from a light is kinda pointless.

Narc is best on the lrmboat, sitting there and praying for someone else to get locks for you is stupid, lazy, and makes you a burden to the team.

Proof you can narc from a lrmboat just as well as a light can, without wasting a perfectly good light that'd be far more useful in a pure combat role.









My whole channel is basically a giant pile of proof you can narc from a lrmboat perfectly well, and are far more useful if you bring a narc.

I stand by what i said, unless you bring a narc on your lrmboat your a flatout burden to the team.

Edited by zortesh, 10 January 2015 - 10:38 PM.

[Kilo 40]

zortesh, on 10 January 2015 - 10:37 PM, said:

My whole channel is basically a giant pile of proof you can narc from a lrmboat perfectly well, and are far more useful if you bring a narc.

I stand by what i said, unless you bring a narc on your lrmboat your a flatout burden to the team.

you doing well with NARC =/= not using NARC makes you a burden to the team.

i don't use NARC just because I don't need it to do well. can the be handy? sure. is it a requirement? not at all.

[zortesh]

Kilo 40, on 10 January 2015 - 10:58 PM, said:

you doing well with NARC =/= not using NARC makes you a burden to the team.

i don't use NARC just because I don't need it to do well. can the be handy? sure. is it a requirement? not at all.

I can do well in a energy boat using standard heatsinks....

That doesn't mean double heatsinks aren't infinitely better.

Its not a requirement... it does make you far far more useful to your team.

[Kilo 40]

zortesh, on 10 January 2015 - 11:03 PM, said:

I can do well in a energy boat using standard heatsinks....

That doesn't mean double heatsinks aren't infinitely better.

Its not a requirement... it does make you far far more useful to your team.

single heat sinks vs double heat sinks isn't very comparable to narc vs no narc despite your ham-fisted effort to do so. you have your cherry picked videos showing you doing well with narc, and there's a ton of other players videos showing them doing well without it.

not all of us need a crutch.

[Threat Doc]

Blueduck, on 10 January 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

Regardless I wish the dev would revisit them to make them less spamable but more deadly

There's a VERY EASY way to do that, too... make 'Mechs stock, take away the MechLab, except in a Smurfy capacity that allows pilots to build their ultimate design, but then the pilot has to purchase any changes, through an in-game economy, to make their 'Mechs into the final image they want them to be in.

See, SIMPLE.

[zortesh]

Kilo 40, on 10 January 2015 - 11:52 PM, said:

single heat sinks vs double heat sinks isn't very comparable to narc vs no narc despite your ham-fisted effort to do so. you have your cherry picked videos showing you doing well with narc, and there's a ton of other players videos showing them doing well without it.

not all of us need a crutch.

Id argue if your not using narc your using the crutch of someone elses locks...

Or just playing against really bad players.

[Kilo 40]

zortesh, on 11 January 2015 - 12:19 AM, said:

Id argue if your not using narc your using the crutch of someone elses locks...

you could argue that. you'd be wrong, but you could argue that teamwork or getting you own locks is a crutch I suppose.

Quote

Or just playing against really bad players.

uh huh. right. right.

[STEF_]

My short opinion, lrm boats are usually piloted by so called noobs, but lrm boats require some skills that usually noobs don't have.
And Lrm boats are difficult because lrms are very very terribad weapons.
That said, LRM is a support weapons, and support meh "can" be useful in some situation, so I can stand 1 (one) lrmboat in blue team, better if it's a medium.
So I don't hate it, if it's only one in my team, but I LOVE them if they are in red team

[Escef]

Did a few group drops with some of the BAGrs this past night, and we ran into a bunch of LRM heavy teams.

Did we whine? Did we cry? NO!

... Ok, most of us didn't, but that's not the point. The point is we retaliated. We started dropping as an 8-man group with nothing but ECM mechs. When we came across LRM heavy teams we rolled them something fierce. After a while we ended up facing teams that were mostly direct fire. Do you know how well ECM counters PPCs, ACs, lasers, and Gauss? It doesn't. It just plain doesn't. But we had a blast derping around as Team ECM.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

@ Zortesh

If you're bringing Narc, you're using at least 3.5 tons and a missile slot on a system that really isn't much better than a tag on a missile boat in terms of opportunity costs. On a medium Missile boat, that means you're sacrificing something more useful to your LRMing, be it armor (3.5 tons of armor shaved off? no way), speed, Artemis, more launchers, or more ammo (or a combination of the above).
On a heavy or Assault, it means you are wasting a heavy or an assault on LRM boating (unless its a catapult A1, probably the only mech I'd think self narcing would be worthwhile - but its still wasting a heavy mech on LRM boating).


You also assume respondents to your comment play LRM boats indirect fire only, which I do not, and is not a safe assumption.

[Dispersive]

Increase the cost of LRMs and Artemis, Triple the cooldown, double the damage.
If you have 2 LRM20 then that's 40 man-or-bigger-sized missiles being fired from your steel-based mech; and with each missile probably exceeding 3 grand in fahrenheit, I think it should heat up your mech accordingly.

[ztac]

PGI could always just take LRM out the game .. so all the people that cant play games like this complain .. but no loss at all really!
If the game worked properly then it really would not be a problem .. but there is just so much that is wrong (balance , matchmaker, maps). Yeah I see all the 'you are rubbish at the game .. you should do this that and the other to avoid LRM .. you are a noob!' comments about LRM .. but in all reality most teams can't use LRM properly and let's hope they never learn.. because if they ever did then these would become a huge problem on most maps.

In the solo queue you get constant LRM rain in games, in some games I have had it seems like 8/12 players are using them ... It just becomes a joke after seeing that!

Edited by ztac, 11 January 2015 - 08:58 AM.

[Burktross]

only if they're not catapults