19 replies to this topic

[L3mming2]

[color=#FFFFFF]The weapon does have a 20% (reduced to 15%) chance to jam if double fire mode is used. If it does jam, it will unjam itself after 5 seconds.[/color]

this is the text of MWO wiki, however,
i have done some testing, i'll explain the test so you can see if they where done right.

used chassi for test KGC-000 masterd and with a U-AC/5 cooldown module.
it had 1200 rounds on board and 1 uac5
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e81242e44930dbf

test self; i stared fireing and when the ammo count reatched 1150 i started the timer (for more accuracy) , i used a macro that clicks evry 628ms this means that after a jam the uac5 will resume fire with a delay of only 24 ms so thats realy not inportant in comparison to the 5000 ms jam time. it took 24'17'' to fire all 1150 rounds.

results;

for prolonged firing (tested this with 1 UAC5+ macro and 1150 rounds) the DPS of a UAC5 ~ 3,946 the dps of a AC5 on my masterd crab (with right modules and so on) is 3.989 *(it took in total 24'17'' to fire all rounds by UAC5)

now if i make a graf with the formula ((5*2*(100-x))+(5*X))/(1.2533*(100-X)+6.2533*X)
((5*2*(100-x))+(5*X))/(1.2533*(100-X)+6.2533*X)=3,946
X=20,43865 ~20,44
(x is the jam rate)
so taking in to acount for statistical variation its safe to assume the jam rate is 20%
(some extra info on the numbers 6.2533 is the jam time + cooldown time of the weapon the X is used to be able to calculate the jam rate, using a known DPS rather than the other way around)

if u see any errors in my calculations ore math please point them out

as for my second point

the jam rate is at 20% now this means the dps is a fraction of a bit lower then of a AC5.
for the same chassi uac5 dps was 3.95 wile a ac5 on the same mech (king crab) also with cooldown module 3.99 dps.

on the plus side, you can (if u are lucy ) put a high dps down range at the very start of a fire extange

on the negative side;
the uac5 is 1 ton heavyer and takes up 1 more slot but its DPS is the same ore even a bit lower than a ac5
you cant rely on your fire to supress the enemy when you engage, this is a big problem as its a heavy weapon, so tends to be taken in to batle by heavy or assault class mechs.
this slow mechs cant get to cover when they suddenly jamm so they are caught with there pants down resulting in dead..

so IMHO i think the UAC/5 needs a slight damage boost (so its in the 3.5 dps range (ore maby even to 4) in comparison with the 3.01 DPS of a AC5)
to accomplish this i think a jamm rate reduction to 17 -18 % would be good and this wont be OP

(i have read some post that it was op when it was at 15% but that was before my time, and some ppl say any weapon that kills there mech is OP (even when they dont use this) i think this is surly thru for a UAC5 becous it feels op if u hapend to be on the wrong side of sommone having a lucky streek of no jams with them but as u can see by the math above the reality is quite difrent)

Edited by L3mming2, 11 January 2015 - 06:36 AM.

[FupDup]

I don't think the MWO Wiki is even up to date.

[L3mming2]

it probably is not, but i want to make sure the jam rate is indead 20% and see if ppl agree it m8 be better (looking at the math) to lower it to 17 a 18%

[Wintersdark]

This all looks correct. The UAC5's overall DPS is comparable, which is reasonable. This, because engagements don't last through constant fire. The UAC5 puts out considerably higher DPS during the first couple seconds, then jams. If you're moving cover to cover, or your opponent is, this allows the UAC5 to put twice the fire into a target compared to the AC5 in the same time frame.

Long term DPS isn't really relevant for most circumstances in MWO, and if it IS needed for whatever reason, if constant fire is desired for suppression, then don't doubletap. The UAC5 is good as it is.

[SolCrusher]

if you want to know the stats of the weapons just open up the XML document for them with win.rar. So here you go on the weapons stat there's a jamming chance = "0.15" so that would be 15 percent.

**I should say as long as they have no other idiotic programming going on somewhere else that affects this percentage.

-<Weapon faction="InnerSphere" HardpointAliases="Ballistic,LargeWeapon,AutoCannon,UltraAutoCannon,UltraAutoCannon5,ISAutoCannon,ISUltraAutoCannon,ISUltraAutoCannon5" name="UltraAutoCannon5" id="1025">

<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\UltraAutoCannon5.dds" descTag="@UAC5_desc" nameTag="@UAC5"/>

<WeaponStats maxDepth="10.0" gravity="0,0,-9.8" volleydelay="0.5" speed="1150" lifetime="10.0" duration="0.0" tons="9" maxRange="1200" longRange="600" minRange="0" ammoPerShot="1" ammoType="UltraAC5Ammo" cooldown="1.66" heat="1.0" impulse="0.04" heatdamage="0" damage="5" numFiring="1" projectileclass="bullet" type="Ballistic" slots="5" Health="10" JammedTime="5.0" JammingChance="0.15" ShotsDuringCooldown="1"/>


-<EffectList>

<Effect name="Projectile" mass="10" scale="1.0" asset="objects/weapons/autocannon_shell.cgf"/>

<Effect name="ProjectileMaterial" asset="mat_ac5"/>

<Effect name="Muzzle" asset="mech_weapons.autocannon_5.muzzle_flash"/>

<Effect name="MuzzleFP" asset="mech_weapons.autocannon_5.muzzle_flash_fp"/>

<Effect name="Sound:Fire" asset="sounds/weapons:cannon:ultracannon_fire" float="0.0"/>

<Effect name="Sound:PostFire" asset="sounds/weapons:cannon:ultracannon_tail" float="0.0"/>

<Effect name="Sound:Reload" asset="sounds/weapons:cannon:cannon_reload" float="0.5"/>

<Effect name="DamageBrush" asset="Textures\\decals\\damage_brushes\\ac_20.tif"/>

<Effect name="DamageBrushType" asset="direct" float="32" float2="32"/>

</EffectList>

<Audio OnDestroyedDialogue="BB_UltraAutoCannon_Destroyed"/>

</Weapon>

Edited by SolCrusher, 11 January 2015 - 07:51 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Smurfy is also at 15%, which takes the info from the XML

[Shatterpoint]

Honestly if it doesn't have like 20-30% jam rate it's over powered, including the clan version. A UAC will **** up your day so bad it's not even funny, I say that as a pilot who uses them.

I can round a corner and unload on an enemy mech, the only thing not making that a compete one sided **** is the weapon jamming. I've felt sorry for every class of mech I've not weapon jammed against in a 1vs1 fight using the king crab, they crumble and can't do a thing to fight against it in time with UAC5's.

[L3mming2]

i still cant explain my test results, if i use 15 % for x i get a avrage DPS of 4.617.. witch is way above the result of 3.94... i got. and i realy dont see any flaws in the math ore in the test methode, if anyone finds any flaws point them out. realy dont get where the discrepanty is coming from...

Edited by L3mming2, 11 January 2015 - 08:54 AM.

[L3mming2]

now i think of it (and i could be wrong, i dont know that much of programing)
wont it be easyer for them just incert a new line of code like
> extange value jammingchance to jammingchance="0.2"
this way they can do so for all UACs at once and not having to go thru all the code

just a guess

[C E Dwyer]

Its called game balance ignore wikki its not relevant

Its like if you fire and fire until multiple UAC5's jam they all jam together.

Don't try to add science to a game its like trying to catch fire in a net made of tissue paper.

[anonymous161]

Man you guys have way too much time on your hands if you are doing a math test to test something out like this in the game...Just saw a bunch of nerd wall of math post.

So horrifying.

[L3mming2]

i think it would be quite easy to catch fire in a net of tissue paper, if u dont mind the burn wounds that is.
i want to find out why i cant get the dps out of these things like it say's on the box...
maby its becaus somting i can change..

[CocoaJin]

Perhaps the UAC/5 needs a substantially higher fire rate for double tabs...so a much greater damage spike when desired, but make the jam cool down longer.

So the UAC/5 vs AC/5 would be a significant choice between sustained DPS and short-term, "hit n' run" style spike damage.

[Insects]

L3mming2, on 11 January 2015 - 08:53 AM, said:

i still cant explain my test results, if i use 15 % for x i get a avrage DPS of 4.617.. witch is way above the result of 3.94... i got. and i realy dont see any flaws in the math ore in the test methode, if anyone finds any flaws point them out. realy dont get where the discrepanty is coming from...

Probably just the occasional missed synch in the timing, timing in Windows multitasking is far from accurate occasionally the macro or game thread will be delayed and your macro may shoot a little slower or try to triple shot or a jam period will catch an extra shot.
Game may be rounding cooldown rates up slightly etc. For things like accounting software you have to ensure the computer performs very accurate math, but for things like a game you gain a lot of efficiency by allowing a lot of error and "close enough" calculations.

If you do want to try and find percentage I would use a different method.
Macro: Fire, 500ms delay, Fire, 9500ms delay, repeat.
This will reduce the effect of timing glitches and the slow 10sec beat will be easy to monitor on your stopwatch to see if your macro program drifts out over time (it may be adding a few ms between each wakeup causing each cycle to be 10004ms).

Its completely pointless though. All that matters is its actual performance in use.
Their intention was obviously to make it so that average DPS is the same whether singleshot or doubleshot. Advantage of doubleshot is that it will deliver more shots in the first second, then it is a gamble whether it continues to shoot fast or you get jams.

[Brody319]

the MWO wiki hasn't been updated in like a year. It has like nothing on the clans.

[Triordinant]

The stats here are 100% accurate because they come straight from the game files. Hold your mouse pointer over the little letter "I" beside the UAC5 cooldown rate and you'll see it's got a 15% jam chance.

[MikeBend]

Lowering jam chance will benefit everyone who brings only 1 UAC5, but instantly give great boost to dakka builds, that have more than 2. It is overall balance problem - every weapon has to be in the middle between Usless if you got only one and OP if you got 4. I say, UAC5 is fine as is.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I'm sure that jam rates went up as soon as the Daishi came out, has to be it.
UAC-5 has always felt like it jams way too often though.

What we need is a system that not only jams in a more interesting and dynamic way, but we also need a system that offers lowered or next to 0 jam rates for the "Single" weapon loadouts, and increases the jamming for each additional UAC carried to curve the benefits of boating UAC's.

So that lights or mediums that choose to, can carry that 1 weapon and make it reliable enough to even bother with.

Nothing is more annoying than having a single primary weapon like that, that consistently fails when you need it most.

[PwningMechMK3]

when i tested out Cuac5 jam rate was different depends on how much time you spend after shot but minimum chance still about 5%(before that was about 0)(5k shots)

Edited by PwningMechMK3, 13 January 2015 - 05:20 AM.

[5LeafClover]

http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

Here's my experiment. Rather than examining code or wiki, it looks at what can be achieved from the UAC5 as shot by a human being (no macro).

Short answer, I achieved 30% more DPS from the UAC5s than plain old AC5s, which works out 15% more DPS per tonne. I feel this is a fair trade off considering the loss of reliability.

The 1 less tonne makes a surprising difference in being able to fit AC5s over UAC5s. For many mechs, a single one of these does not make a good primary weapon and I find they work better in pairs. But at 18T, a pair of UAC5s is a big investment, e.g. in a Victor arm. It's a lot of eggs in one basket so to speak.