25 replies to this topic

[Sprouticus]

I have primarily dropped in 6-12 mans in CW. However, about 15020% of my drops have been in very small (2-3) groups or solo due to time constraints,etc.I have noticed a pattern and was wondering if others have seen it as well.


When I have dropped on other clan planets or on SJ planets with a large non-SJ contingent, I have noticed a significant difference in communication and tactical acumen compared to dropping with SJ pugs. There were a few drops on a clan planet Sat. morning in particular that were quite painful.

I am not sure if this is due to skill level of the average pilot, better coordination because SJ is small and we have been force to do so form day 1, or if it is just my imagination. Obviously I dont have any comments from the IS side since I dont play there.


so what say ye? Is this just the ramblings of an old man or is there a real difference in pugs between factions?

[Joseph Mallan]

Might be a little bias Sprouticus... but that's to be expected if you happen to like your faction.

[Bluefalcon13]

CSJ pugs do very well. We (DERP) saw this when we moved from CJF.

[Ace Selin]

LOL OP, quite opposite, I have noticed that CSJ PUGs are quite deficient tactically compared to IS PUGs, perhaps they need to be trained better on your homeworlds?

[Screech]

PUGs ability vary as much as pre-mades. Pretending that they are all the same seems fairly silly.

[Monkey Lover]

Most are like this


but



some are like........

Edited by Monkey Lover, 12 January 2015 - 01:56 PM.

[JadeTimberwolf]

No not all PuGs are equal, I do not claim to have much skill but I have noticed both with just CJF PuGs and with General Clan PuGs, Sometimes the PuG groups workout well and sometimes they don't. Personally I have encountered more PuGs that do well than ones that don't but there is no really telling at the beginning when it will work well or not.

[Krivvan]

Honestly? For Clans, I find Smoke Jaguar and Jade Falcon pugs to be better than Wolf and Ghost Bear pugs. I suspect it's also because Wolf and Ghost Bear have far more players whereas with Jaguar and Falcon you're more likely to get unit players or those who care less about lore or etc. and more about gameplay.

[Ilithi Dragon]

I'd definitely say that not all PUGs are created equal. There will always be a variation in player skill and experience, and even the same players will vary in performance from night to night (we all have our good days and our bad days).

That said, in my experience there is also a noticeable variation in the quality of PUGs between factions, and it seems to me that the Marik PUGs are a cut above the rest, and for good reason.

Marik has always taken a "mix and match" approach to team construction in MWO, all the way back to Closed Beta, so we're used to mixing units up and dropping with a wide variety of people. The Marik Monday Madness has also engendered an increased sense of fun and camaraderie in the general Marik population. And, most importantly, in our matches, the FWLM members operating on TS actively work with and coordinate with our PUGs. We generally show them respect, give them directions, and encourage them to join us on TS. Hardly a Marik match goes by without somebody giving out directions to the House-Marik.com site, and how to get on TS and join us in our Tier 2 PUGging fun, and the constant, friendly engagement with the PUGs pays off. The number of new faces in the FWLM is constantly growing, and our PUGs are usually quite willing to work with us. They even actively start asking what the plan is before we can start giving it to them, and sometimes, particularly when we get recurring match-ups, they'll start calling out the tactics or plays we've been using successfully before we do!

Not all PUGs are equal, and even the best PUG has a bad day, but if you want your PUGs to start performing better, you have to engage with them, and treat them like human beings who are playing a game and looking for a fun time.

[Davegt27]

I think what it is

When you win you’re a tactical genius

When you lose you’re a stupid pug

[Prophetic]

Ilithi Dragon, on 12 January 2015 - 08:55 PM, said:

I'd definitely say that not all PUGs are created equal. There will always be a variation in player skill and experience, and even the same players will vary in performance from night to night (we all have our good days and our bad days).

That said, in my experience there is also a noticeable variation in the quality of PUGs between factions, and it seems to me that the Marik PUGs are a cut above the rest, and for good reason.

Marik has always taken a "mix and match" approach to team construction in MWO, all the way back to Closed Beta, so we're used to mixing units up and dropping with a wide variety of people. The Marik Monday Madness has also engendered an increased sense of fun and camaraderie in the general Marik population. And, most importantly, in our matches, the FWLM members operating on TS actively work with and coordinate with our PUGs. We generally show them respect, give them directions, and encourage them to join us on TS. Hardly a Marik match goes by without somebody giving out directions to the House-Marik.com site, and how to get on TS and join us in our Tier 2 PUGging fun, and the constant, friendly engagement with the PUGs pays off. The number of new faces in the FWLM is constantly growing, and our PUGs are usually quite willing to work with us. They even actively start asking what the plan is before we can start giving it to them, and sometimes, particularly when we get recurring match-ups, they'll start calling out the tactics or plays we've been using successfully before we do!

Not all PUGs are equal, and even the best PUG has a bad day, but if you want your PUGs to start performing better, you have to engage with them, and treat them like human beings who are playing a game and looking for a fun time.

I have to agree with this. Even though we are Kurita through and through, Marik pugs seem the most willing to take direction and engage in team play.

Now if we could only get our PUGs to jump on our house TS. Things just might be better on the HK border.

[Roadbeer]

Ilithi Dragon, on 12 January 2015 - 08:55 PM, said:

Tier 2 PUGging

Think I may have invented a new form of categorizing PUGs.

[Deathlike]

I'm thinking this had to do with the people that care more about roleplaying and their faction, than it is with people who want to get better and get the job done.

Of course, I could be making up stats and don't care.

Although, the PUGs that are more than willing to come on (TS3) coms are usually better than your average ones, but that's been my feeling about CSJ. (I can't speak for others, but it is what it is.)

[Y E O N N E]

Ace Selin, on 12 January 2015 - 11:13 AM, said:

LOL OP, quite opposite, I have noticed that CSJ PUGs are quite deficient tactically compared to IS PUGs, perhaps they need to be trained better on your homeworlds?

This is lore accurate, CSJ was pretty deficient during the invasion.

[beerandasmoke]

Ive fought for 4 factions so far Davion, CSJ, GB, and Marik. Marik by far are the best. Example of pugging chat elsewhere

What do we do?
Were going to get rolled its a 12man!
LRMs here hold locks. (My personal facepalm favorite.)

Everyone brings a mishmash of mechs with no clear idea or plan on how to win the game especially when attacking.

Marik pug drop is dead silence with everyone loaded up in Firestarters, Jenners, and Spider Ds, first wave. You dont have to tell them they know the tactics and what it takes to win.Somebody calls the gate and over the top we go taking out the gens. If we dont get them then its another wave of lights to take them out. If we get them then its a second and third wave of heavies and assualts to brawl and farm dmg. 4th wave is zerg rush of whatever is left to take out the omega. Last night watched a Marik pug drop with no organized group beat a 12man Steiner drop. Yeah they fought us to the end but we finished them with a lance of ECM lights covering a heavy, and assualt, push. They didnt even know we were there till we were through the gate and almost to the omega. That organization and experience just doesnt happen on other fronts in pugs. You actually feel like you can count on the other pilots to do their job.

Edited by beerandasmoke, 13 January 2015 - 05:45 AM.

[jper4]

all PUGs are equal.
some PUGs are more equal than others.

[Ilithi Dragon]

beerandasmoke, on 13 January 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

Ive fought for 4 factions so far Davion, CSJ, GB, and Marik. Marik by far are the best. Example of pugging chat elsewhere

What do we do?
Were going to get rolled its a 12man!
LRMs here hold locks. (My personal facepalm favorite.)

Everyone brings a mishmash of mechs with no clear idea or plan on how to win the game especially when attacking.

Marik pug drop is dead silence with everyone loaded up in Firestarters, Jenners, and Spider Ds, first wave. You dont have to tell them they know the tactics and what it takes to win.Somebody calls the gate and over the top we go taking out the gens. If we dont get them then its another wave of lights to take them out. If we get them then its a second and third wave of heavies and assualts to brawl and farm dmg. 4th wave is zerg rush of whatever is left to take out the omega. Last night watched a Marik pug drop with no organized group beat a 12man Steiner drop. Yeah they fought us to the end but we finished them with a lance of ECM lights covering a heavy, and assualt, push. They didnt even know we were there till we were through the gate and almost to the omega. That organization and experience just doesnt happen on other fronts in pugs. You actually feel like you can count on the other pilots to do their job.

This is a prime example of what happens when the organized community actively engages with their PUGs and encourages teamwork and coordination, and provides direction and guidance in that coordination without elitist browbeating.


Everyone else is complaining about how awful CW is, and how they're losing members and so on, but we in Marik are gaining new faces every day, and we're all having a blast, both our organized groups and our PUGs.

[Roadbeer]

Ilithi Dragon, on 13 January 2015 - 06:24 AM, said:

This is a prime example of what happens when the organized community actively engages with their PUGs and encourages teamwork and coordination, and provides direction and guidance in that coordination without elitist browbeating.

Truth here.
I may seem abrasive towards PUGs, but it's not the PUGs themselves, it's those who want to dumb down, bastardize, or install an Easy Button in the name of PUGs. They're projecting their own inadequacies or anti-social behaviour and saying "I'm Ok, but the PUGs have it hard and are leaving". No, no they aren't.

"Wont someone think of the PUGs?" Why, they're doing just fine, we get plenty of PUGs and New Players at House Marik, they're just fine. They took it upon themselves to find a higher level of game, we provide that for them, and they thrive in both the game and the community (Marik and MWO).

Ilithi Dragon, on 13 January 2015 - 06:24 AM, said:

Everyone else is complaining about how awful CW is, and how they're losing members and so on, but we in Marik are gaining new faces every day, and we're all having a blast, both our organized groups and our PUGs.

House-Marik.com signups and active members in the last 30 days (Active Members reflects unique registered users who have visited the website in last 90 days).

[Satan n stuff]

Ilithi Dragon, on 12 January 2015 - 08:55 PM, said:

That said, in my experience there is also a noticeable variation in the quality of PUGs between factions, and it seems to me that the Marik PUGs are a cut above the rest, and for good reason.

I've seen Marik premades get stomped by Davion PUGs, but please talk your faction up all you want.

[Joseph Mallan]

Satan n stuff, on 13 January 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

I've seen Marik premades get stomped by Davion PUGs, but please talk your faction up all you want.

LOL Isn't that supposed to happen? We picked a faction cause we like it. So obviously we would want to look upon it favorably.