24 replies to this topic

[Aerekplus]

I decided to play with a friend and we always get clans, neither of us are skilled. But at least in Pug matches we are ok. But when we decide to have fun together, we end up not having fun because we fight huge clans, and our team isn't a huge clan. So is the match making system broken?

[Brizna]

Unfortunately there is an skill gap between solo queue and group queue. On the other hand one learns more from defeat than victory so you and your friend will soon play better and stop having that issue.

[Aerekplus]

When it's defeat we can learn, but it's slaughter, our entire team dies, almost every time.

[Redshift2k5]

Try looking for a larger group to join. Playing as a small group on comms can be hard, you probably want more medium-sized groups.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 12 January 2015 - 04:51 PM.

[Aerekplus]

I don't have any large groups, where do I look?

[luigi256]

Try joining a merc group. You'll make lots of friends and have many new players to add to your friend list to play with. Also most Merc Corps use Team speak so you can work together better.

[Bloody]

yes having friends is cheating, real men solo things...

on a more serious note, that is just the way matchmaking works unfortunately, it assumes the groups, even the small ones are super solid and can carry l337 the entire match all the way. I cannot think of a way around this other than, get more friends / join other smaller groups or skill up so high that you can carry the other 10 other solo plebs ( the real men / women )

[Aerekplus]

Bloody, on 12 January 2015 - 05:25 PM, said:

yes having friends is cheating, real men solo things...

on a more serious note, that is just the way matchmaking works unfortunately, it assumes the groups, even the small ones are super solid and can carry l337 the entire match all the way. I cannot think of a way around this other than, get more friends / join other smaller groups or skill up so high that you can carry the other 10 other solo plebs ( the real men / women )

Well I currently have to struggle to bring up my damage over 300 in a mad cat so that wont be happening anytime soon

[Ward Serpentine]

In a Timberwolf, you are going to be a priority target no matter what way you slice it. I'd recommend looking for a group to join. You could also look at sync dropping into the solo queues so that you aren't getting slaughtered by a 12 man, but that only works out about 10% of the time (at least in my experience).

[Tarl Cabot]

Aerekplus, on 12 January 2015 - 05:29 PM, said:

Well I currently have to struggle to bring up my damage over 300 in a mad cat so that wont be happening anytime soon

As mentioned in a TW you become a primary target, especially vs a larger unit who may or may not be on comms but if they are communication either way and you are in the forefront you will be toast. It would go like this " target Lima-TW" and if there are 7 people in a unit and on comms, all of their attention turns to you.

Also notice how pugs, especially on certain maps, keep going the same route and generally gets slaughtered because they are all bunched up, only a very few lanes of fire. There is stick with the pack but also be aware that the pack may be moving into a choke point.

With the TW, it is overall the best mech in the game for several reasons: Speed/JJ with specific pods which can be used to get in and out of situations. Armament: It can pack a wallop at any range. Bring the number of weapon sets down to 3 and be mindful of your heat dispersion.

Targeting: Adjust your mouse settings (if mouse has DPI settings) and/or set sensitivity in MWO options to about the halfway point then adjust as needed. The slower your target hairs move the better to aim and stay on target.

MWO is suffering some from the lack of some sort of lobby system for the general population. Until that does come around and you both are willing to use TS, be it House specific or the general population, the larger the group that is able to communication the better the games will be, provided someone or a few are willing to take command and provide direction.

Even if it just you two, if both of you are communication either via TS or chat/lance channel, that can make a difference. That difference may be having the other 2 in your lance follow directions if via chat, or you are on TS and they just follow route, make sure to provide some info. If both of you are not really talking to each other then think of it as solo players vs a group who does speak with each other. How is that going to end up?

No details have been provided on what you two are actually doing in the game but with you two running complementary mechs and targeting the same mech, even if you are being fired on at least for your target it is 2 on 1.

[Koniving]

Trying to play with friends is difficult. This is because playing with even just 1 friend requires you to play "in the group queue."

It is important to be able to work together with your friend. Try complimenting each other's styles. For example, if your friend is an Atlas, then try using a medium or heavy mech and 'escort' your friend's Atlas.

Or in this case, two mediums.
This is me and Zero playing as two Centurions in the group queue.

(Zero: 6 kills, 5 assists, 886 damage. Kon: 3 kills, 6 assists, 560 damage.)
(Weapons: Zero - two medium lasers and AC/20. Kon - two medium pulse lasers, AC/5 and AC/2).

Another one.

Zero: 4 kills 6 assists 611 damage. Kon: 4 kills 5 assists 513 damage.
Weapons: Zero twin ML + AC/20. Kon twin MPL + AC/20.

(It's important to note that our conversations were not recorded in these videos. However the entire time we are coordinating everything we do. "Attack this." "Heads up, enemy coming." "Ignore this target, attack that target. It is a bigger threat." "Draw some attention, I can't take this fire." "Lets circle around." Etc.)

Communication and coordination is important.

Edited by Koniving, 12 January 2015 - 08:54 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Your problem is that in the group queue you are matched based on Elo, this is a calculation of your skill based on your past games, and is averaged across a team, it does not take account of the size of the group(s) forming a team, although it does try to put similar sized groups together.
For the best possible chance of a good game do not select a game mode.

at current you can have groups sized 2-10 or 12 making up the 12 players for each team, unfortunately your 2 person group will often be used as a filler for a 10 person team, as a rule the larger the groups the harder the match is.

For example
12 people on a single set of comms forming a team will have the advantage of co-ordination vs three 4 person groups on 3 separate sets of voice comms for the other team, for the three 4 person teams to win they need to outplay the 12man, this does not usually happen.

as you are a 2 person group you only have 1 other person who you can talk to, so only 1 person you can trust to support you without using the text chat (which is problematic when in combat), whereas the larger group will likely be on comms calling which Mech the group should target, when 12 Mechs are firing at a single enemy Mech that Mech goes down in a few seconds, they then move on to the next, target, with your 2 person group it takes 6 times as long to kill a target as it would for that 12 man.

As others have said joining a unit should help because you would be able to get the advantage of being part of a larger group

[mailin]

If you're on TeamSpeak with your buddy, I suggest going to Comstar.NA. There are always people there looking to join others. It's an easy way to get a bigger group together.

[Revis Volek]

Bloody, on 12 January 2015 - 05:25 PM, said:

yes having friends is cheating, real men solo things...

on a more serious note, that is just the way matchmaking works unfortunately, it assumes the groups, even the small ones are super solid and can carry l337 the entire match all the way. I cannot think of a way around this other than, get more friends / join other smaller groups or skill up so high that you can carry the other 10 other solo plebs ( the real men / women )

What this pilot has claimed is actually VERY wrong. It has nothing to do with how good the MM might percieve you to be. It that you are now stepping up into the next teir of skill in this game.

Solo, then group, then CW.

You are at the whim of whoever is in the Group queue and you WILL get to go against 12 mans and such from time to time in there. Its just the way it is....

Most PUBLIC matches are wipes one way or the other anyway so all you really are getting is someone to talk to while you guys ride the roller coaster that is the MM and ELO. But think of it as trial by fire....these guys are usually better then your avg PUG and will show you the ropes in no time!

Or join a larger group and find MORE people to complain with! lol

[Tim East]

DarthRevis, on 13 January 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

Most PUBLIC matches are wipes one way or the other anyway so all you really are getting is someone to talk to while you guys ride the roller coaster that is the MM and ELO. But think of it as trial by fire....these guys are usually better then your avg PUG and will show you the ropes in no time!

In my experience, pub queue matches haven't been mostly wipes since they separated the queues. Yeah, you get wipes now and again, but nowhere near 50% of the time, and nowhere near as often as when you are in the group queue. Consequently, I'll disagree with the first part of this statement while agreeing with the second. Group queue players do tend to be better than your average PUG player, at least at being aware of what is happening and coordinating a response to it. This probably results from the use of voice comms by most groups allowing quick and efficient transmission of information to one another, allowing them to make each other aware of things they may have missed and coordinate fire to take down targets as fast as possible. I'm pretty sure that this is why group-queue games tend to be rolls more than PUG ones; the loss of a gun platform is better able to be capitalized upon by an aware and coordinated enemy, with the result that once you lose more than one mech, your losses tend to snowball far worse in group games than PUG ones.

[Mechteric]

They should allow groups of 2 in the solo pug queue. It makes sense and wouldn't tip the scales, only make it more fun to play with your pals.

[Flaming oblivion]

Unfortunately putting groups even small ones in the pug queue isn't real a option .

As the stomp your receiving from the 12 mans . The pugs become the ones being stomped. And since the solo queue is supposed to be solo yeah.

I'm sure you can appreciate pugs want unfair fights no more then you do. And as evidenced before just one lance being organised in a pug game is gam breaking why it was removed.

Perhaps they could make a separate queue for 4v4 for smaller groups but pugs don't want them back in solo sorry.

[BattleBunny]

Aerekplus, on 12 January 2015 - 04:23 PM, said:

I decided to play with a friend and we always get clans, neither of us are skilled. But at least in Pug matches we are ok. But when we decide to have fun together, we end up not having fun because we fight huge clans, and our team isn't a huge clan. So is the match making system broken?

The group queue is more coordinated compared to the solo matches. The difference is quite staggering. The group queue often results in big brawls, where lots of mechs form up into a glorious ball of hurt and stomp all over the enemy in mere minutes.

If you play with a friend as a duo in this (I do that myself quite often) make sure you are ready for brawling and for playing very aggresive. Play mobile mechs that are able to react to different tactics. Keep an eye on what your team is doing. chat with them in teamchat if you are unsure. Especially if you are teamed with a 10 men group, ask what they want to do and help them out as best you can.

And even then it is often stomp and be stomped. matches in the group queue are usually quik and painful for one team. Sometimes you are on that team, sometimes you are on the other side.

I enjoy dropping as a duo in the group queue a lot.

Edited by BattleBunny, 14 January 2015 - 04:37 AM.

[Appogee]

Since the major teams got bored with Community Warfare they're dropping a lot more in the Group Queue. They have the advantage of teamwork when they drop against the "a few small mixed groups" that I tend to end up dropping with.

There's nothing to be done about it as far as I can tell.

I'm having more fun at the moment PUGing solo than dropping in small groups. At least there I will occasionally drop with a somewhat competent team, instead of getting stomped by well organised 12-mans.

The dynamic will probably change against after the patch on the 20th.

[Kjudoon]

Aerekplus, on 12 January 2015 - 04:23 PM, said:

I decided to play with a friend and we always get clans, neither of us are skilled. But at least in Pug matches we are ok. But when we decide to have fun together, we end up not having fun because we fight huge clans, and our team isn't a huge clan. So is the match making system broken?

The group queue is fundamentally broken because of the group mechanic. It hides large disparities of skill inside the group. The bigger the group the bigger the disparity is able to be hidden. Unfortunately, this cannot be fixed, it can only be minimized by keeping group sizes small... which STILL isn't really enough to give balance.

So, you and your friends will have to learn to Sync Drop and freak out a very small very vocal sub group in MWO who finds this cheating (event though it isn't).

Oh if you're talking CW, forget it. There is no balancing. You get who's next in line and that will either be easy or hardcore but no matter what, most are not just 'playing for fun'. They're playing to win.

Edited by Kjudoon, 14 January 2015 - 04:59 AM.