42 replies to this topic

[meteorol]

The chance of ammo explosions is so stupidly small that taking a case is really just wasted weight. Can't really be considered a huge advantage for clan mechs.

Edited by meteorol, 12 January 2015 - 12:06 PM.

[Pjwned]

It hardly makes a difference because of this:

Pjwned, on 01 January 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

Explosions from ammo are so rare that they're pretty much always a non-issue because multiple things need to happen:

1) The mech needs to take critical damage to the component.
2) The critical damage needs to apply to the ammo container, which is often enough not the case if you have for example an AC10 or multiple jumpjets or whatever else in that same component as well, i.e "crit padding."
3) The ammo container needs to be destroyed, and unless the component was breached by a weapon that does 10+ damage that may not happen even if the ammo container does take damage; I'm not even sure if something like a large pulse laser would do this.
4) There needs to be some ammo remaining in that container for it to explode and do any damage, and you can manipulate this because ammo containers are used in a certain order depending on what component they're placed in.
5) Finally, when all of that happens, it's only a 10% chance for ammo to explode.

This results in death by actual ammo explosions being pretty rare, and as others have pointed out it's even less of a concern for clan mechs due to their innate uber CASE on every component, so even if you are quite unlucky and some ammo explodes it will be contained to that component, which just means you might lose your side torso slightly faster.

[MauttyKoray]

The way Clan mechs are set up there is very little crit space to put ammunition is 'safe' spots on the mech the way you can with an IS mech's ammo. However, if you're running an ammo heavy IS mech you're going to want to put CASE in anyway. Its tonnage and crit cost is negligible. I run CASE depending on which mech it is and how much ammo I have. Obviously its pretty much useless on an XL mech as that side torso will blow whether you have case or not.

CASE II is what will change the game as if I remember correctly it will actually save the XLs by blowing out the back armor when ammo explodes instead of blowing the side torso up. However rear armor is rare in this game because of high TT speeds so this goes back to an issue I've had previously that TT should be LOCKED regardless of engine size and only change with the skill system. It would retain the mech's uniqueness and stop all these Jesus Twist mechs with extremely high engine ratings from existing (which I think is a HUGE problem in terms of the pinpoint twitch shooter aspect currently in MWO) and actually change the play of the game making a significant difference in the use of Arm and Torso weapons because of the torso not being able to stay caught up to the arms constantly like it does now.

But...that's another issue altogether.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 12 January 2015 - 12:14 PM.

[MerryIguana]

LameoveR, on 12 January 2015 - 09:01 AM, said:

Clan mechs got C.A.S.E.. IS mechs got several free crit slots in the legs, where they can put their ammo (4tons?).

7 of the current clan mechs can put stuff in their legs you know.

[Hardin4188]

Ammo explosions do happen! And they do cost you especially in community warfare. Legging happens much more frequently in cw and if you blow up because you put ammo in your legs it makes you look silly. This is also why I try not to use xl engines in cw. The weight it saves is useless if it blows you up.

[InspectorG]

Ultimatum X, on 12 January 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

C.A.S.E. feels almost irrelevant on my clan builds.

Outside of my dakka wolf most of my clan builds are all energy, or they carry gauss ammo (which doesn't explode), or they have 4 to 5 tons of SRM ammo that I chew threw long before there is a big risk.

Couple that with the generally low amount of ammo explosions, and I think this is one of those "advantages on paper" that practically speaking means very little.

Thats kinda what im thinking. Wondering just how much of a factor in the CW QQ'ing because of the legging. Ammo stored in legs- leg goes pop, etc

[Metus regem]

InspectorG, on 12 January 2015 - 02:38 PM, said:

Thats kinda what im thinking. Wondering just how much of a factor in the CW QQ'ing because of the legging. Ammo stored in legs- leg goes pop, etc

If you are putting ammo in your legs, and the ammo goes off, well, that was just silly wasn't it? The last time I had an ammo explosion in game, ammo not Gauss rifle, was a long, long time ago... guess I am due for one soon.

[InspectorG]

Metus regem, on 12 January 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

If you are putting ammo in your legs, and the ammo goes off, well, that was just silly wasn't it? The last time I had an ammo explosion in game, ammo not Gauss rifle, was a long, long time ago... guess I am due for one soon.

Well, now that you jinxed it...

[Roadkill]

Hardin4188, on 12 January 2015 - 01:20 PM, said:

Ammo explosions do happen!

Yes, roughly once every 33 times you leg a Mech that's carrying its ammo there.

Meanwhile those Mechs you are legging are doing a similar amount of damage to you or someone else, and then the 32 of them that you don't kill by ammo explosion continue to do damage to you while you either blow off their other leg or finally start shooting a critical location. You have a vastly greater chance of blowing up an enemy by destroying a side torso and hoping for an XL engine than you do by blowing off a leg and hoping for an ammo explosion.

Quote

And they do cost you especially in community warfare. Legging happens much more frequently in cw and if you blow up because you put ammo in your legs it makes you look silly.

Not really, because a legged Mech is just going to eject anyway unless it just happens to be in a critical gap where it can be useful.

By all means, keep legging Mechs hoping to get an ammo explosion that blows them up. I'll keep laughing at you while you waste time doing it while I continue to store my ammo in my fully-armored legs.

[Metus regem]

InspectorG, on 12 January 2015 - 02:47 PM, said:

Well, now that you jinxed it...

I'll be fine, I run energy weapons 99% of the time... if I got an ammo explosion when runing only energy weapons I would be killing myself laughing.

[Serpieri]

C.A.S.E is used to stop the transfer of left over damage from an ammo explosion to another location by venting it out the rear of the mech. IS mechs without xl engines could be killed by an ammo explosion in the LT/RT if enough ammo remained to destroy that section and any remaining damage would transfer to the CT.

[Bluefalcon13]

My Wang (harhar)has a case (pun?) for it's ac20 ammo. Didn't want an ammo explosion carrying over to the CT of my durable Wang (another pun?) with a standard engine...

[Flaming oblivion]

Clan meta is OP

IS meta is OP why its the meta it performs superior to any other loadout in almost if not all situations why everyone uses it

Clan meta is better then IS meta in range heat damage and tonnage


The meta is the problem as always you would find very little difference between clan and IS other then the meta.

The meta needs nerfing on both clan and IS nothing else.

Oh and IS XLs need buffing so they can survive with more then one torso.

Nerf the meta fix IS XL engines problems solved.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

1: IS CASE is only useful for STD engine designs.
2: Most IS warriors carry their ammo in the legs or arms, meaning that even on a crit, the Ammo Explosion has to travel through 3 total locations [where it's stored, Corresponding side torso, CT.]
3: On average, ammo carrying mechs rarely carry enough ammo to do signifigant damage to themselves apon ammo explosion, or end up relatively unlucky before they can burn through it.

It's the tradeoff... most players don't really see a point in mounting 1/2 ton CASE for an RNG system that doesn't really happen all that often.

I've died a few times to ammo explosions, and I never feel cheated by it. It just happens now and again, usually in one of my AC builds... it's the danger of running in the old 3025 method.

[meteorol]

Flaming oblivion, on 12 January 2015 - 04:42 PM, said:

Clan meta is OP

IS meta is OP why its the meta it performs superior to any other loadout in almost if not all situations why everyone uses it

Clan meta is better then IS meta in range heat damage and tonnage


The meta is the problem as always you would find very little difference between clan and IS other then the meta.

The meta needs nerfing on both clan and IS nothing else.

Oh and IS XLs need buffing so they can survive with more then one torso.

Nerf the meta fix IS XL engines problems solved.

Dude, you left the game "permanently":

http://mwomercs.com/...31#entry4077831

You can now leave the forum aswell.

[Widowmaker1981]

Case is situationally useful, if you are running a very ammo dependent mech with no XL engine and ammo in the STs.. other than that its not.

On that note - dont put ammo in your arms people (clan mechs are forced to a lot of the time, but IS mechs arent) - i keep killing Dragons due to ammo explosions coming from the gun arm.. seriously??? ammo is not good crit padding folks, it explodes, and arm ammo is used last.. imo: Legs -> head -> ST (with case if no XL)

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 13 January 2015 - 12:45 AM.

[Hardin4188]

Roadkill, on 12 January 2015 - 02:48 PM, said:

Yes, roughly once every 33 times you leg a Mech that's carrying its ammo there.

Meanwhile those Mechs you are legging are doing a similar amount of damage to you or someone else, and then the 32 of them that you don't kill by ammo explosion continue to do damage to you while you either blow off their other leg or finally start shooting a critical location. You have a vastly greater chance of blowing up an enemy by destroying a side torso and hoping for an XL engine than you do by blowing off a leg and hoping for an ammo explosion.


Not really, because a legged Mech is just going to eject anyway unless it just happens to be in a critical gap where it can be useful.

By all means, keep legging Mechs hoping to get an ammo explosion that blows them up. I'll keep laughing at you while you waste time doing it while I continue to store my ammo in my fully-armored legs.

As a defender it's never a waste of time to leg someone. If they can't reach the generators then you succeed. Now when you are on offense I agree that legging is not the priority.

[Mcgral18]

Widowmaker1981, on 13 January 2015 - 12:45 AM, said:

On that note - dont put ammo in your arms people (clan mechs are forced to a lot of the time, but IS mechs arent) - i keep killing Dragons due to ammo explosions coming from the gun arm.. seriously??? ammo is not good crit padding folks, it explodes, and arm ammo is used last.. imo: Legs -> head -> ST (with case if no XL)

Arms are before legs, after the three torsi.

Head is presently last.


Unless it's changed again. Head was first at some point. Right torso takes priority after CT, but I believe it's left arm before right. (cannot confirm)

[Widowmaker1981]

Mcgral18, on 13 January 2015 - 07:13 AM, said:

Arms are before legs, after the three torsi.

Head is presently last.


Unless it's changed again. Head was first at some point. Right torso takes priority after CT, but I believe it's left arm before right. (cannot confirm)

I meant legs -> head -> as preference for ammo position not order of usage, but i also thought torso ammo got used after legs for some reason, so if CT is first i guess CT is also a good place to put ammo, since it should be gone by the time someone is coring you...

[Mcgral18]

Widowmaker1981, on 13 January 2015 - 07:26 AM, said:

I meant legs -> head -> as preference for ammo position not order of usage, but i also thought torso ammo got used after legs for some reason, so if CT is first i guess CT is also a good place to put ammo, since it should be gone by the time someone is coring you...

Well, "Safe"

I've had arties blow the ammo in my head. CT is pretty safely padded, with the engine. Head has half the padding.