67 replies to this topic

[Serpieri]

Should of been the Executioner - but you know masc - which should be fine since its not the flea.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 14 January 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

The only suggestions I have are the following:

1) Build a better "Stormcrow" - Anything the Stormcrow can do, the Gargoyle can do better (unless it involves lots of missiles). That's the baseline of how you should build it.

2) Try building "close" to a Hellbringer - Anything you can build on a energy heavy "laservomit" Hellbringer (with the occasional ballistic) can be accomplished on a Gargoyle. It just won't have ECM or favorable firing locations.

3) DO NOT try to build anything resembling a Timberwolf - You will overheat and die more often. You don't even get JJs, so don't bother.

Just expect to brawl give your hardpoints... so being heat efficient helps a lot more than sheer DPS/firepower/alpha.

except hitboxes and speed....and climbing hills?

Asyres, on 14 January 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

I'll admit to having a strange affection for the Gargoyle, even with its weird, get-the-epi-pen face. I think it's just that part of me likes terrible and broken things.

acknowledgement is the first step to recovery.......

Kain Thul, on 14 January 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

I made a heat neutral 8 SPL 28 DHS build that outbrawls just about anything.

The downside is 182m range--some maps this can be a death sentence others it doesn't matter (its good on Viridian Bog like 12 SPL Nova).

any map where you have to consider walking up a gentle handicap ramp, for instance and find yourself being outrun by Dire Wolves?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 14 January 2015 - 05:28 PM.

[darkchylde]

Clan Wolf loved this mech - one of the few assaults that could keep pace with the Timberwolf.

[Bishop Steiner]

darkchylde, on 14 January 2015 - 05:29 PM, said:

Clan Wolf loved this mech - one of the few assaults that could keep pace with the Timberwolf.

then they realized....oh wait...we have the Timber Wolf...what do we need the Gargoyle for again? (Since there is no 3x4 weight limits in Btech)

[Asyres]

Serpieri, on 14 January 2015 - 05:25 PM, said:

Should of been the Executioner - but you know masc - which should be fine since its not the flea.

By my reckoning, the Executioner would only have had 22t of pod space, assuming you keep the MASC. If you ditch it, you STILL only have 26t, which is pretty sparse for a 95t mech.

[darkchylde]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 January 2015 - 05:31 PM, said:

then they realized....oh wait...we have the Timber Wolf...what do we need the Gargoyle for again? (Since there is no 3x4 weight limits in Btech)

Than the Dire Wolf was born......

which was lost to the Smoke Jaguars in a Trial of Possession.....

[Serpieri]

Asyres, on 14 January 2015 - 05:34 PM, said:

By my reckoning, the Executioner would only have had 22t of pod space, assuming you keep the MASC. If you ditch it, you STILL only have 26t, which is pretty sparse for a 95t mech.

Just imagine the look on the face of an IS pilot when this 95t mech passes them.

[Deathlike]

Wintersdark, on 14 January 2015 - 04:20 PM, said:

Poor Gargoyle; ton for ton it's one of the very worst clan mechs.

Oh c'mon. The Mist Lynx isn't worse?

Bishop Steiner, on 14 January 2015 - 05:27 PM, said:

except hitboxes and speed....and climbing hills?

Fine... it needs a crutch cane. Maybe Urbie will share his fancy one.

[Bishop Steiner]

Deathlike, on 14 January 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

Oh c'mon. The Mist Lynx isn't worse?




Fine... it needs a crutch cane. Maybe Urbie will share his fancy one.

No, the Mist Lynx isn't worse. Ton for Ton? Not at all.

[Kain Demos]

darkchylde, on 14 January 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

Than the Dire Wolf was born......

which was lost to the Smoke Jaguars in a Trial of Possession.....

Rumor has that they cheated, but in a later trial they got production rights back.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 January 2015 - 05:55 PM, said:

No, the Mist Lynx isn't worse. Ton for Ton? Not at all.

I dunno.. I've had a far better experience in a Kitfox than a Mist Lynx.... even when I lose my arms in a Kitfox (and don't even bother bringing MGs).

My Commando AND Locust experience was better.

I could show you how I feel about the Mist Lynx, but that would require the mech to be able to perform the act of "surrendering".

[Xythius]

Deathlike, on 14 January 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

Oh c'mon. The Mist Lynx isn't worse?




Fine... it needs a crutch cane. Maybe Urbie will share his fancy one.

I may be alone in this (& I fully acknowledge I very well may be), but I think the MLX is actually a decent (Clan) light. I actually have fun in mine. I have... 'performance issues' in my KFX's/ADR's. I certainly would not call it the worst 'mech ton for ton. Worst all around light? Probably. But I would stand behind the idea of the GAR being the worst 'ton for ton' 'mech.

Edited by Xythius, 14 January 2015 - 06:15 PM.

[blood4blood]

Just had a PUG game where someone (not me) got 5 kills, 5 assists, 701 damage in a Gargoyle - best I've seen one do yet. Not sure what the loadout was other than judging by the beams, he had a mix of ERM, ERL, and something pulse (he was alpha striking for the final kill, I didn't have a chance to really check his config).

[Deathlike]

Xythius, on 14 January 2015 - 06:13 PM, said:

I may be alone in this (& I fully acknowledge I very well may be), but I think the MLX is actually a decent (Clan) light. I actually have fun in mine. I have... 'performance issues' in my KFX's/ADR's. I certainly would not call it the worst 'mech ton for ton. Worst all around light? Probably. But I would stand behind the idea of the GAR being the worst 'ton for ton' 'mech.

I'll admit to being biased in a Gargoyle.. TBH I think it's actually better than the Warhawk, but that's unfair since I haven't played the Warhawk yet.

8-kills with a Gargoyle-D does that to a man's sense of a mech (but I've had good games with them, yet nothing great).

[Xythius]

Deathlike, on 14 January 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

I'll admit to being biased in a Gargoyle.. TBH I think it's actually better than the Warhawk, but that's unfair since I haven't played the Warhawk yet.

8-kills with a Gargoyle-D does that to a man's sense of a mech (but I've had good games with them, yet nothing great).

I've played my Warhawk probably just a few times more than my Gargoyle, and in anything less than LRM spam, I guess I felt they were probably equal. Warhawk cools better, Gargoyle moves faster (slopes not withstanding). Edge Warhawk..? Really though, when it comes down to it, if I want to play an assault, I just bring out my DWF.

And I totally understand "kill bias" - thats probably why I like my MLX - I had a 7 kill game with it the game after I mastered it. The chat that game was... colorful, lol.

[Asyres]

Deathlike, on 14 January 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

I'll admit to being biased in a Gargoyle.. TBH I think it's actually better than the Warhawk, but that's unfair since I haven't played the Warhawk yet.

8-kills with a Gargoyle-D does that to a man's sense of a mech (but I've had good games with them, yet nothing great).

I feel like one thing the Gargoyle has going for it is the ability to effectively shield it's torso with its arms, something the Warhawk and the Dire Whale cannot do. Unfortunately, that means your shielding a location with no weapons with one that does. Access to the E and G torso pods would help the Gargoyle by adding higher weapons mounts, as well as giving it the ability to leverage those shield arms. It would still need other adjustments, but that would HELP at least.

The Warhawk needs love for sure, but at least it can field meaningful weapons loadouts, especially if you can leverage all of those hardwired heatsinks.

Edited by Asyres, 14 January 2015 - 07:08 PM.

[El Bandito]

Gargoyle's one redeeming feature is the "Suck Shield". Whenever I see the enemy Assault Lance, I shoot at the Gargoyle last, because I know it cannot hit back with much. So that helps its survivability.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 January 2015 - 07:32 PM.

[DivideByZer0]

Remembering why some mech's never made it to MW 1 , 2 , 3 , or 4 ...

=P

edit: Or MWLL

Edited by DivideByZer0, 14 January 2015 - 07:39 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Deathlike, on 14 January 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

Oh c'mon. The Mist Lynx isn't worse?

Bishop Steiner, on 14 January 2015 - 05:55 PM, said:

No, the Mist Lynx isn't worse. Ton for Ton? Not at all.

exactly. Opportunity cost.

The Must Lynx is terrible, but it brings "high speed"(for our clan options) jump capable ECM, and costs 25 tons. ECM has such value by itself to cover a lot there, and say srm12+erml at least allows a Mist Lynx the ability to burn down generators/kneecap in CW as well as provide ECM support.

The gargoyle costs more than three times as much, and basically brings nothing valuable for that.

Sure, you can build a mediocre wub build with it, but its poor returns for 80 tons.

If it was actually agile, that would help a lot. But as it stands it has nothing going for it.

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 January 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

It needs it's hillclimb profile lowered, as noted, and honestly, it needs endo, real bad. It and my Summoner are the poster children for the Omni/Endo Initiative.

You have to wonder what the hell those derpy clan engineers were thinking.

400CXL with no Endo?

16 DHS on the prime to cool one small laser and 2 SRM 6s? (LOL)



Then there is the complete tragicomedy of the GAR-A.

2x CERPPCs
1x CLPL
1x CMPL
1x CERSML

The same 16 DHS as the prime to power all of that!

That loadout, just hysterical in this game.




@OP: I'm waiting until the clan quirk pass to play mine, it will collect dust until then. The mech has too many laughably bad design issues in this game.

If you want to continue, you might try something very simple and stripped down like 5x or 6x CMPLs with MK 1 TC and 24 DHS.

It gives you a lot of firepower, with decent mid-range poke ability. If you are good on controlling a few weapon groups, you can sustain your fire well.