70 replies to this topic

[Kjudoon]

The solo only queue must remain Solo Public Queue only.

No CW solo only queue.

[Johnny Z]

After the add the maps into the star map modes and the star map has alot more maps added then sure. The only reason I drop is the regular queue now is for quick matches and a change of scenery. I am not even sure if the regular group queue is still up or not?

If it were up to me I would add the skirmish maps to the star map rotation tomorrow.
I would replace the regular queue with Solaris map set as well. These changes and alot more assault maps and other modes on the star map would really bring some depth.

Edited by Johnny Z, 18 January 2015 - 11:09 AM.

[Triordinant]

Kjudoon, on 18 January 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

The solo only queue must remain Solo Public Queue only.

No CW solo only queue.

Agreed. I'll let PGI decide if it makes more business sense for them to put up a solo CW queue (possibly to fight over minor planets while the Units fight over the major ones). If they don't, I'm fine with it -but PGI might see it as a problem if CW ends up being populated by a thousand or so members of well-trained and organized Units and a handful of elite soloists.

[Yokaiko]

Flaming oblivion, on 17 January 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

One problem if your suggesting what I think you are.

The pugs don't want to be forced to run into 12 mans.

So cant happen.

Shut up, you uninstalled remember.

[Kjudoon]

We'll see if the growth of the gamer population post Steam release will change this need.

[Yokaiko]

Kjudoon, on 18 January 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

We'll see if the growth of the gamer population post Steam release will change this need.

Unlikely, a pack of raw noobs being dropped into ELO hell isn't going to go well.

I could be wrong, but its unlikely.

[Kjudoon]

Yokaiko, on 18 January 2015 - 11:14 AM, said:

Unlikely, a pack of raw noobs being dropped into ELO hell isn't going to go well.

I could be wrong, but its unlikely.

By this standard nobody's playing now then.

[Jon Gotham]

Triordinant, on 18 January 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

VOIP isn't going to help much because not all your PUG teammates will use it and some can't even understand English whereas the enemy 8 to 12-man are all on TS and they've trained together for months and have codenames for all the important places on all the maps so they don't have to use the Battle Grid.

It's not the comms. It's the fact that some groups have spent a lot of time and effort training and playing together until they're a well-oiled machine. There's nothing wrong with that, but well-oiled killing machines shouldn't be allowed to farm PUGs who've never played together before, have their comms muted or don't even speak the same language. Elites should only ever play against elites, never against random soloists.

But I thought you, and others said it would help? I thought the only reason people cried for a solo queue was because of co- ordination issues?
Now anyone who drops with a friend or three is a farmer? It seem "soloists" want everything and I do mean everything their way only, just to cater to them alone. Voip inclusion affects those who drop as groups too. It's an inclusion put in to pander to your sensibilities, yet is going to affect unit/group players as well. Potentially very negatively.
Now you are saying voip won't level the field and that anyone who teams up should go play with themselves? EH?!

Why are you chaps so dead set against grouping up? You seem to want to us to be put away in some dark box somewhere.....the point of the game is a TEAM based thing, 12 vs 12 solos are not teams. This whole solo thing has gone to far to remain sensible anymore, it's ridiculous....
You mention well oiled killing machines, what about solos who are just head and shoulders BETTER then you? Are you going to force them into their own queue too? Where does this stop?

You got a solo queue put into an MMO, you won there.
You forced 2 mans..father and sons...husbands and wives to drop vs 12 mans..you spoiled their casual games..you won there.
You inspired many solo only challenges, just to cater to your sensibilities forcing friends to not play together just to participate...you won there.
You even cried enough to get voip put in, something which may end up damaging social experience for unit players and expose minors to some nasty stuff....you won there too.

What more do you guys want? You've already hammered group play into the floor...what on earth next?
You've done enough damage and steered mwo away from my hopes enough already, I emplore you to just stop now.

[Kjudoon]

It will not stop till they get PvE and can opt out of PvP play. I'm all for that. Then they have no excuse.

I know I'm looking forward to PvE play come the end of 2015 early 2016.

[TygerLily]

Well developed VOIP is one of the greatest things that could happen for this game! Just as it was a no brainer for Planetside 2.

Triordinant, on 18 January 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

Agreed. I'll let PGI decide if it makes more business sense for them to put up a solo CW queue (possibly to fight over minor planets while the Units fight over the major ones). If they don't, I'm fine with it -but PGI might see it as a problem if CW ends up being populated by a thousand or so members of well-trained and organized Units and a handful of elite soloists.

I also agree that CW should be "hardcore mode" etc. that is better done by groups. My suggestion was for Invasion Mode (NOT COMMUNITY WARFARE) be brought to the solo queue. Their matches DO NOT CHANGE THE MAP, only grant resources to declare attacks in Community Warfare. In CW, groups could then play Invasion and make planets change hands, as they do now.

So the simplest form of my idea is to include Invasion as a solo-queue game mode. That's it...Not "Community Warfare in the solo queue" but Invasion in the solo queue... There's an important distinction there that people aren't recognizing that's causing unneeded objection.

Edited by TygerLily, 18 January 2015 - 01:34 PM.

[Triordinant]

kamiko kross, on 18 January 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

But I thought you, and others said it would help? I thought the only reason people cried for a solo queue was because of co- ordination issues?
Now anyone who drops with a friend or three is a farmer? It seem "soloists" want everything and I do mean everything their way only, just to cater to them alone. Voip inclusion affects those who drop as groups too. It's an inclusion put in to pander to your sensibilities, yet is going to affect unit/group players as well. Potentially very negatively.
Now you are saying voip won't level the field and that anyone who teams up should go play with themselves? EH?!

Why are you chaps so dead set against grouping up? You seem to want to us to be put away in some dark box somewhere.....the point of the game is a TEAM based thing, 12 vs 12 solos are not teams. This whole solo thing has gone to far to remain sensible anymore, it's ridiculous....
You mention well oiled killing machines, what about solos who are just head and shoulders BETTER then you? Are you going to force them into their own queue too? Where does this stop?

You got a solo queue put into an MMO, you won there.
You forced 2 mans..father and sons...husbands and wives to drop vs 12 mans..you spoiled their casual games..you won there.
You inspired many solo only challenges, just to cater to your sensibilities forcing friends to not play together just to participate...you won there.
You even cried enough to get voip put in, something which may end up damaging social experience for unit players and expose minors to some nasty stuff....you won there too.

What more do you guys want? You've already hammered group play into the floor...what on earth next?
You've done enough damage and steered mwo away from my hopes enough already, I emplore you to just stop now.

First of all (and for the second time -read my post) I never asked for VOIP because I knew that wouldn't solve the problem so stop bringing it up.

Second, the reason why PGI created the solo queue was because of the abuse committed by some of the big, organized and well-trained competitive teams. If they hadn't done that there would be no need so the fault lies squarely with them.

Third, in an ideal world the small casual groups would have a queue of their own so they wouldn't have to go up against 12-mans. The reason they don't is because the MWO playerbase is too small. The reason the MWO playerbase is too small is because many of the players who quit MWO because they were getting farmed by some competitive premades never came back. Once again, the fault lies squarely with them -we didn't force father/son 2-mans to fight 12-mans; they did.

Fourth, elite soloists aren't a problem because PGI stated in a Command Chair post that Elo matchmaking works extremely well in the solo-only queue. Even if once in a blue moon you have to go up against an elite soloist he's just one guy out of 12 so it's not a problem. On the other hand, soloists going up against a well-trained 8 to 12-man premade team is a problem.

Conclusion: all the "damage" to MWO was caused by some selfish premade teams. I suspect many premade teams are actually just friends who like playing together, but the bad apple teams ruined it for everybody. If you want to blame someone, blame them.

Edited by Triordinant, 18 January 2015 - 07:54 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Waaaaaa

People want to play a team competitive shooter like a console game. Tough.


Pug stomping was big bad 8 mans on the comstar TS. It's not like it is some secret, log in and group up.
Duh.

[Kjudoon]

I agree in the solo and "lance" PQs. Not CW at this time. Maybe once we hit 1 million players.... sure.

[Jon Gotham]

Triordinant, on 18 January 2015 - 07:47 PM, said:

First of all (and for the second time -read my post) I never asked for VOIP because I knew that wouldn't solve the problem so stop bringing it up.

Incorrect.
With all due respect, I will NEVER stop bringing it up. Because you have an agenda and it's a divisive and nasty one. Your (and others like you) viewpoint needs to be challenged at every turn.
I did write a lot of stuff here but there is no point, you seem hellbent on spoiling playing with friends and nothing seems to get through to you.
Many, many have said lack of voip was the issue now you have forced it on us-we need one queue. Level playing field the only thing stopping you post voip is your own willingness to get involved in your hobby.
The onus should be and IS on YOU.

[PhoenixFire55]

TygerLily, on 15 January 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

So back in Feb last year Paul said that 84% play solo. 16% are groups (8% being 2-mans, 4% being 3-mans, 4% being 4-mans). IE, the group play was fraction of the MWO experience.

You don't do smth based on lies or just general inability to properly interpret the data.

[Latorque]

Cool idea basically; but i don't want to be forced to play on the invasion maps - neither attacking nor defending. I tried them; and they're not my idea of fun. Both are the worst that have been designed by PGI so far in my eyes, with obvious glaring errors that are exact replicas of the implementation of "assault" mode in WoT (i can't decide which game was less fun in that regard).

Don't want to sound too negative though. I like the current speed and direction of developments; and i'm looking forward to any changes / additions in CW. But please please please keep participation optional.

Edited by Latorque, 19 January 2015 - 03:15 AM.

[Triordinant]

kamiko kross, on 19 January 2015 - 03:03 AM, said:

Incorrect.
With all due respect, I will NEVER stop bringing it up. Because you have an agenda and it's a divisive and nasty one. Your (and others like you) viewpoint needs to be challenged at every turn.
I did write a lot of stuff here but there is no point, you seem hellbent on spoiling playing with friends and nothing seems to get through to you.
Many, many have said lack of voip was the issue now you have forced it on us-we need one queue. Level playing field the only thing stopping you post voip is your own willingness to get involved in your hobby.
The onus should be and IS on YOU.

There's no point in arguing if you don't read all of the other guy's response. If you did you'll see that I've proven that we're not against playing with friends and proven that the onus is on some of the big competitive groups. Repeating what you said before does not prove anything. If you're going to respond intelligently, you have to actually read the opposing arguments and respond to them point by point like what I did.

[Jacob Side]

One word: NO!

[TygerLily]

PhoenixFire55, on 19 January 2015 - 03:07 AM, said:

You don't do smth based on lies or just general inability to properly interpret the data.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4110455

Also, you offered your point unsupported so there's not much to respond to.

Latorque, on 19 January 2015 - 03:14 AM, said:

Cool idea basically; but i don't want to be forced to play on the invasion maps - neither attacking nor defending. I tried them; and they're not my idea of fun.

I never said anyone should be "forced to play" Invasion. I suggested that PUG and group play accrue "Campaign Points." They can be earned via Skirmish, Assault, or Conquest. With the additional option of earning CP via Invasion if you are playing solo.

IE, Invasion would be another mode offered to the solo queue. Wins there DO NOT MOVE THE MAP in Community Warfare but only accrue Campaign Points. CP is then used to go in to the star map in CW and declare an attack on a planet. In CW, groups or solo players can play Invasion and their wins DO MOVE THE MAP.

Edited by TygerLily, 19 January 2015 - 01:42 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Triordinant, on 19 January 2015 - 06:55 AM, said:

There's no point in arguing if you don't read all of the other guy's response. If you did you'll see that I've proven that we're not against playing with friends and proven that the onus is on some of the big competitive groups. Repeating what you said before does not prove anything. If you're going to respond intelligently, you have to actually read the opposing arguments and respond to them point by point like what I did.

Right, and to be honest, those groups who want protection from the big groups in CW, need to realize this should not happen ever or at least till the MWO player base is over 1 million players (aka probably never at this rate unless Steam is an incredible boost).

They need to stick to the PQs exclusively. I have been very vocal about wanting a 'lance' queue in PQs ever since the Solo queue was made and the group queue became Farm land for groups 5+ thanks to the elo balancing flaw brought out by the grouping mechanic. The problem is the same reason I don't want to see a solo/small group queue in CW: the population is too small to slice even finer to tailor the gaming and competitive experience.

As for the Solo only Whiners who want special rules to win against organized teams, you do not get to randomly pick 11 people out of the stadium to faced any Pro/college/High School football team and expect them to win. We need to stop thinking this is the right thing for MWO either or that the rules should be changed to make things "equal" in CW in this regard.

PQs have elo, and in the solo queue, it works very well, even with sync drops (which will then be balanced by VOIP, so I'm fairly certain the whine over that will go away quickly too as everyone will ahve the same ability).

Edited by Kjudoon, 19 January 2015 - 02:44 PM.