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Dawn Of A New Beginning Between Csj, Cgb And Eventually The Rest Of The Clans And Inner Sphere


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#561 Von Blumen

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 03:27 PM

View PostCimarb, on 16 February 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

CGB does have a population issue, since a good 80% of our population ebbs and flows with the whims of MS' contracts. We are way over populated some weeks, which is where the "boredom" issue comes in with Wolf and Jaguar, and then we are way underpopulated other weeks, which is when we get ate up by the Wolves and Jaguars that are pissed off about the previous week...

Being a loyalist CGB unit, it is very difficult for us. We have to temper our own people to not get cocky on the overpopulated weeks, and then temper them again as we are being hacked up by the other Clans the underpopulated weeks. It sucks, tbh.


Everything that is wrong with the current merc contract system you pretty much summed up. PGI needs to reevaluate this and make it so that mercs are not so much of a wandering hoard, so to speak, and more like contracted warriors fighting for a faction. It is taking the wind out of CW. It is beta though so let's see what happens.

Edited by Von Blumen, 16 February 2015 - 03:39 PM.


#562 Jaroth Corbett

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 03:40 PM

View PostCimarb, on 16 February 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

CGB does have a population issue, since a good 80% of our population ebbs and flows with the whims of MS' contracts. We are way over populated some weeks, which is where the "boredom" issue comes in with Wolf and Jaguar, and then we are way underpopulated other weeks, which is when we get ate up by the Wolves and Jaguars that are pissed off about the previous week...

Being a loyalist CGB unit, it is very difficult for us. We have to temper our own people to not get cocky on the overpopulated weeks, and then temper them again as we are being hacked up by the other Clans the underpopulated weeks. It sucks, tbh.


But we deal with it as Clansmen should; we fight.

#563 Cimarb

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 04:53 PM

View PostJaroth Corbett, on 16 February 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:


But we deal with it as Clansmen should; we fight.

Seyla B)

#564 Mystere

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 06:13 PM

View PostVon Blumen, on 16 February 2015 - 03:27 PM, said:

Everything that is wrong with the current merc contract system you pretty much summed up. PGI needs to reevaluate this and make it so that mercs are not so much of a wandering hoard, so to speak, and more like contracted warriors fighting for a faction. It is taking the wind out of CW. It is beta though so let's see what happens.


Mercs should be put on a leash ... i.e. require a contract with and paid for by a house unit, as follows:

View PostMystere, on 10 February 2015 - 02:46 PM, said:

And this is where unit coffers and faction loyalty can come into play:
  • Merc units should operate via contracts.
  • Merc units can get a contract from a House unit (i.e. "permanent" and possibly even "long-term") only.
  • Merc units can have only one contract at any given time.
  • Merc and House units should perform their own negotiations on how much the latter will pay the former.
  • All c-bill earnings generated by Merc actions go to the House unit. How much of that goes to the mercs depends on the terms of the contract.
  • Either party has the right to cancel a contract at any time.
The above is only a rough draft and is in no way free of potential exploits.


Edited by Mystere, 16 February 2015 - 06:14 PM.


#565 Jaroth Corbett

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 06:14 PM

http://mwomercs.com/...ng-mercenaries/

#566 Von Blumen

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 10:09 PM

View PostMystere, on 10 February 2015 - 02:46 PM, said:


And this is where unit coffers and faction loyalty can come into play:
  • Merc units should operate via contracts.
  • Merc units can get a contract from a House unit (i.e. "permanent" and possibly even "long-term") only.
  • Merc units can have only one contract at any given time.
  • Merc and House units should perform their own negotiations on how much the latter will pay the former.
  • All c-bill earnings generated by Merc actions go to the House unit. How much of that goes to the mercs depends on the terms of the contract.
  • Either party has the right to cancel a contract at any time.
The above is only a rough draft and is in no way free of potential exploits.



While I agree with you that mercs need to be "put on a leash" so to speak, there are some things that need to be "fixed" simply from a player standpoint:
  • Merc units should operate via contracts.
They do. The contracts however are broad in nature and not lucrative enough. Mercs should have the option to pick a clan/IS faction, and then pick a front to fight on. This will bind them to where they are needed to be. If no fighting is occurring on the front that they have contracted, then they still have the option to fight on the other fronts, but they will not gain any bonuses as this is "extra" work, not contracted work. They will however gain any planetary bonuses from planets that they conquer. Bonuses should be given to fronts not well defended and percentage boosts should come into play the longer the merc unit stays with the faction. Hopefully planetary bonuses also come in once we are out of Beta. If a merc unit leaves a faction, then they forfeit all bonuses/planets gained. (planet stays in faction, just reverts back to "neutral" merc unit stays in planetary history.)
  • Merc units can get a contract from a House unit (i.e. "permanent" and possibly even "long-term") only.
No, they should be able to move freely, just have greater consequences for constant movement (outlined above...ie loss of bonuses). Perhaps even a tonnage restriction for the first few days of fighting with a new faction, which gradually lightens to operational standards after a one week contract. Maybe even the loss of all loyalty points for that faction, switching from Clan to IS or vise versa, switching to a rival faction. All bonuses received would remain, but rank and titles would be lost, meaning that if you left a Clan and went IS, you lose all loyalty points in the clan and would have to grind it out again (bonuses would not repeat). This would come in handy if some faction related bonuses are put in game (dropping with lore units, special faction camo, etc...)
  • Merc units can have only one contract at any given time.
They do now, this will not change. Once a contract is up, they should be free to move or stay. If systems like the ones outlined above and in so many other posts, are actually implemented in game, I wouldn't mind if merc contracts are up every week (say every Monday) and the unit needs to chose if they stay (increase faction bonuses) or leave (lose faction and planetary bonuses)
  • Merc and House units should perform their own negotiations on how much the latter will pay the former.
No, players should never have control over other players. Maybe a bounty system for mercs (hunt this unit or this player) but all contracts should remain in "NPC" or dev hands.
  • All c-bill earnings generated by Merc actions go to the House unit. How much of that goes to the mercs depends on the terms of the contract.
Mercs should earn more cbills than loyalists and they should keep every last one. Loyalists should earn more LP then mercs and loyalist units should only have access to the last 5 ranks in a faction (if the mercs get a faction of their own, this would eliminate the need to "cap" merc loyalty. If mercs do get their own faction, then LP should be earned by the fights they are in, and still be earned at a slightly slower rate, to counter balance their higher income of cbills).
  • Either party has the right to cancel a contract at any time.
Mercs should be able to cancel whenever they want. Loyalists should be able to rank merc units only. Players should never have control or power over other units/players. A ranking system though would let factions know what they are getting. Yes trolls can take advantage of this system as well, but if a unit performs well, I am sure that for every troll there would be 2 positive reviews.


Just some of my ever evolving thoughts on the subject....feel free to add. Not an attack on your ideas or on mercs, just trying to help solve an issue that has really broken down the MW feel to the game.

Edited by Von Blumen, 16 February 2015 - 10:12 PM.


#567 Prussian Havoc

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 10:31 PM

View PostSaxie, on 16 February 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

@PrussianHavoc

I'm looking at the map right now and the attack lanes are limited... What would you have CGB do?


http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4202366

When asked by jeirhart I offered up 5 "player-centric" ways to address the Mercenary problem.

My favorite though is http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4144456

In both contributions I stress BOTH - that gamers should be allowed to game BUT they should also learn to live with the consequences of their in-game actions.

Freedom and Accountably should be twinned PGI foundational tenants of COMMUNITY Warfare.

View PostDeathlike, on 16 February 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

I have 3 magically simple answers, ironically.

1) Help on defenses for OTHER Clan Factions. - For a while now, pretty much whatever Kurita superpower they have now are a significant influence. I pay enough attention to the defense contracts, so I see other sections are bleeding out.

2) Clear out the FRR "menace" ASAP. - Right now all the available resources are divided because the FRR still have enough of a presence to disrupt things. If we can just limit them to their capital, then there's less resources that have to be committed to other areas. Understandably, they do have just as much in reinforcements... but once their planets clear, everyone should be able to pitch in on the occasional defense vs FRR (whoever gets the luck of the draw is saddled with that responsibility).

3) A consequence of clearing out the FRR sections should allow for progress into Steiner or Kurita territory. - Doing all of #1 and #2 will get you the access routes and matches you'll ever need (well, #2 has a factor, but not doing #1 will demonstrate that you might not be able to handle it if you like your options open).

The matches are there... I believe the Clans are kinda struggling across the board at this point, so whatever power vacuum CGB used to have IMO is not there anymore.

It is what it is.


Thank you, you answered much more eloquently than I while I was in game conducting some fast-turn drops on Paracale with an -SA- 11-man.

Thank you again.

View PostCimarb, on 16 February 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

CGB does have a population issue, since a good 80% of our population ebbs and flows with the whims of MS' contracts. We are way over populated some weeks, which is where the "boredom" issue comes in with Wolf and Jaguar, and then we are way underpopulated other weeks, which is when we get ate up by the Wolves and Jaguars that are pissed off about the previous week...

Being a loyalist CGB unit, it is very difficult for us. We have to temper our own people to not get cocky on the overpopulated weeks, and then temper them again as we are being hacked up by the other Clans the underpopulated weeks. It sucks, tbh.


Quibbling.

See my "player-centric" options above... better yet work with CGB to develop another 10, much BETTER ways to prove to us in CGB actions what your attempts at quibbling fail to gain you with more and more of your fellow Clansmen.

Deadfire and his 228 brethren had the right of it all along, select CGB leadership (not all and virtually NONE of its gamers) is as complicit as it can possibly get in riding -MS- coat tails all the way to Terra.

I will continue to contest each and every CSJ planet CGB UNILATERALLY drops onto and I HIGHLY encourage all those here to do likewise. As a "better way" I recommend you approach Lukoi Banacek and begin to hammer out a real repatriation agreement with Smoke JAGUAR Alliance leadership,

I would cease and desist in my individual drops to contest CGB aggression on CSJ worlds AND I would adjust my advocacy here on the forums if such a CGB Leadership to CSJ Leadership attempted remediation were undertaken.

Don't take by force (or stand by helplessly shrugging your forum shoulders while your -MS- does your work for you) what could be freely given in uncontested drops IF BUT you can diplomatically iron out an agreement with Lukoi over.

View PostVon Blumen, on 16 February 2015 - 03:27 PM, said:


Everything that is wrong with the current merc contract system you pretty much summed up. PGI needs to reevaluate this and make it so that mercs are not so much of a wandering hoard, so to speak, and more like contracted warriors fighting for a faction. It is taking the wind out of CW. It is beta though so let's see what happens.


Aff... (and great post at http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4202398 Kudos!)

PGI loses CW gamers everyday because of its refuses to actually involve any of its COMMUNITY MANAGERS in COMMUNITY WARFARE. Some may remember Niko Snow from his time as Community Manager first at MWT and then later here in MWO. PGI needs direct liaison with CW in game issues. ACTIVE community managers would be one way to achieve this.

View PostJaroth Corbett, on 16 February 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:


But we deal with it as Clansmen should; we fight.

No doubt... to bad LOYALIST 12-man teams can not directly confront wayward, rogue mercenary drops. Just an empty map, no turrets or gens or gates, just 12 on 12 CW combat.

Now THERE would be a stat a LOYALIST could be proud of - number of times contested Mercenary Malfeasance of Contract.

View PostMystere, on 16 February 2015 - 06:13 PM, said:


Mercs should be put on a leash ... i.e. require a contract with and paid for by a house unit, as follows:



Excellent suggestion though I believe in your recommendation that Unit Funds would drop yup long before our GREAR BULK of Mercenaries could be gainfully employed for more than a few days at most,

You are on to something but the current level of in-game remuneration is simply to low to permit full Mercenary Employment IMO.





Thanks ALL for posting to this thread, I appreciate it.

Edited by Prussian Havoc, 16 February 2015 - 10:33 PM.


#568 SteelWarrior

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 11:14 PM

I think the Bears should act like Trueborn and TAKE an attack lane from whoever they wish. If it happens to be the Smoke Kitties, well so be it!

#569 CyclonerM

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 07:30 AM

View PostSteelWarrior, on 16 February 2015 - 11:14 PM, said:

I think the Bears should act like Trueborn and TAKE an attack lane from whoever they wish. If it happens to be the Smoke Kitties, well so be it!

I think a Kurita warrior should not tell his enemies what they should do on the strategic table.. :ph34r:

#570 ApolloKaras

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 07:45 AM

View PostCyclonerM, on 17 February 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:


I think a Kurita warrior should not tell his enemies what they should do on the strategic table.. :ph34r:



Lol, I liked it.

At the end of the day the responsibility of a defense to any planet is that of the faction. Yes Prussian I've read your links. You've posted them in almost all the replies you make. You only need them now in your signature. Sadly you didn't link this gem

Prussian Havoc said:

3. Drop into -MS- attacks against your Clan allies, eject four times and very professionally state in chat, that -MS- are Rogue Mercenaries conducting operations diametrically opposed to aggregate LOYALIST vote. Answer questions and discourage Soloist and Small Groups from being led astray from your unit's Consensus.


It comes down to attack lanes. CGB doesn't gain anything from attacking CSJ, except a fight when no other lanes are available. If you have the attack lanes most of these problems are solved. Now the problem with CGB, errr MS, and Wolf that's a different story. It's hard to make a mechanism too to prevent this. You can't put it into the hands of the players, it will be abused. You can't really add any consequence to it, what would you be taking away?

Plus there is that open-ended approach too that you are losing. Who is to say a clan cannot challenge another clan? Lore? Sarna? I feel that a lot of these suggestions are to force the story to play out how they believe it should. Story meaning the 'road to Terra'. Leave it open see what the players do.


Edit autocorrect

Edited by Saxie, 17 February 2015 - 08:09 AM.


#571 SteelWarrior

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 08:02 AM

View PostCyclonerM, on 17 February 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

I think a Kurita warrior should not tell his enemies what they should do on the strategic table.. :ph34r:


My units holding 26 planets at the moment, can you make a better claim space puppy? :P

#572 Cimarb

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 08:21 AM

View PostSteelWarrior, on 17 February 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:


My units holding 26 planets at the moment, can you make a better claim space puppy? :P

Yet a unit he is not proud enough of to advertise in his signature... ;-)

#573 BlackDrakon

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 09:44 AM

I cant believe that you guys really think that Mercs are a problem...We are the solution!!

Don't get driven by lore, it is what it is right now, you can suggest whatever you want to PGI, but there isn't a real way to put a "leash", and there is no problem here at all.

We play by the system that's been given to us, nothing more, nothing less.

Just remember what's the addy for MechWarrior Online? www.mwomercs.com yea, mercs....

#574 JadeTimberwolf

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 09:59 AM

View PostBlackDrakon, on 17 February 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

I cant believe that you guys really think that Mercs are a problem...We are the solution!!

Don't get driven by lore, it is what it is right now, you can suggest whatever you want to PGI, but there isn't a real way to put a "leash", and there is no problem here at all.

We play by the system that's been given to us, nothing more, nothing less.

Just remember what's the addy for MechWarrior Online? www.mwomercs.com yea, mercs....



You know I saw someone once suggest something in one of the "how to fix the merc issue" type of threads that I thought made perfect sense for mercs. Do not require them to take timed contracts, allow them to have a "Merc Faction" which they could drop for other factions without contracts.

#575 Prussian Havoc

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 11:38 AM

View PostJadeTimberwolf, on 17 February 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:



You know I saw someone once suggest something in one of the "how to fix the merc issue" type of threads that I thought made perfect sense for mercs. Do not require them to take timed contracts, allow them to have a "Merc Faction" which they could drop for other factions without contracts.


A non-planet owning Mercenary Faction... now that is quite interesting.

#576 Cimarb

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 12:00 PM

View PostJadeTimberwolf, on 17 February 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

You know I saw someone once suggest something in one of the "how to fix the merc issue" type of threads that I thought made perfect sense for mercs. Do not require them to take timed contracts, allow them to have a "Merc Faction" which they could drop for other factions without contracts.

This, or some variation of it, is what I believe most of us loyalists are asking for, and what PGI had announced back during the launch party. At the very least, mercenary should be a subset of the faction, and easily identified as such by all involved.

#577 Prussian Havoc

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 12:09 PM

View PostCimarb, on 17 February 2015 - 12:00 PM, said:

This, or some variation of it, is what I believe most of us loyalists are asking for, and what PGI had announced back during the launch party. At the very least, mercenary should be a subset of the faction, and easily identified as such by all involved.


Agreed, to include a "picture in picture" icon here in the forums.

#578 JadeTimberwolf

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 12:15 PM

View PostPrussian Havoc, on 17 February 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

A non-planet owning Mercenary Faction... now that is quite interesting.


More like they capture the planets for a faction and get their name on it like normal. At least that's how I envision it.

#579 Prussian Havoc

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 12:54 PM

View PostJadeTimberwolf, on 17 February 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:


More like they capture the planets for a faction and get their name on it like normal. At least that's how I envision it.


A considerable problem with that is the planet owner (holder of the TAG) will get to spend Unit Funds to upgrade Turrets, Generator Hit Points and such under the Logistics portion of Phase 3.

If Mercenaries can tag planets, it let's the defensive upgrades of whole swaths of Faction Frontier in the hands of someone liable to keep all Defenses low and then jump to the Faction across the border with the SELLING point that they have a whole swath of planets that will have ZERO turret and generator upgrades.

For this reason and others, TAGs need to go to the highest "win counter" scoring LOYALIST/PERMCON Unit IMO.

Edited by Prussian Havoc, 17 February 2015 - 12:55 PM.


#580 Bregor Edain

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 01:22 PM

View PostSteelWarrior, on 17 February 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

My units holding 26 planets at the moment, can you make a better claim space puppy? :P


CWI is holding 26 planets as well. You make proud claims about how many planets your unit has but your faction as a whole is bleeding planets left right and center. ;)

Edit: Cimarb, he did not add his unit in the signature but considering he boasted about holding 26 planets he is most likely in NS since they are tied with CWI.

Edited by Bregor Edain, 17 February 2015 - 01:25 PM.






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