16 replies to this topic

[HAV0C]

<S>

Greetings everyone.

Just thought I'd foster some discussion on a possible upcoming stock mode in the future after the Town Hall this week. Of course there were several things announced & revealed that have me excited about upcoming content, namely the Urbanmech and more Community Warfare content.

That said, Stock 'Mech game play in Mechwarrior has a special place in my heart, as I played this mode back in previous Mechwarrior titles heavily. Some of my most memorable matches were Stock 'mechs, No Respawn drops in a Community run League (BTU League for those curious to know) and I find myself wishing for this option regularly while dropping with my fellow Brigadiers. Working with the limitations of the 'mech you're driving with no upgrades or modifications, learning to make every round or salvo of ammunition count, how hard to push your heat, all of it.

Does this prospect appeal to other MWO forumites? I for one think it will help new player retention as they can keep stock mode on for a while and play other more experienced pilots without glaringly large gaps between the fully customized meta 'mechs that more experienced & Cbill wealthy users have and the trial 'mechs that many new players use to help build funds to start purchasing their first few 'mechs.

So, what say you, dear reader? Good? Bad? Call me curious.

<S> For now, I'll see you rowdy lot dirtside.

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

[Brody319]

I would love it. Because I typically like to run a mech stock one or two times before I fix it up unless the stock is unbearable.

Though the Pirate's bane would dominate since its perfect stock.

[FupDup]

HAV0C, on 16 January 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

...
I for one think it will help new player retention as they can keep stock mode on for a while and play other more experienced pilots without glaringly large gaps between the fully customized meta 'mechs that more experienced & Cbill wealthy users have and the trial 'mechs that many new players use to help build funds to start purchasing their first few 'mechs.
....

While I'd be okay with a stock mode being offered, I'm going to have to interject and say that it wouldn't be newbie friendly at all.


The biggest problem would be heat, in that the vast majority of stock mechs have somewhere around 25% heat efficiency (in terms of Smurfys) or less. New players would shut down, explode, and/or die in stock mechs like they did back when trial mechs all used SHS.

Ammo would also be an issue, with nubs running out fairly early on and not making good use of the extremely limited ammo bins of most stock builds.

Also, there's durability issues. Many stock mechs have extremely weak armor, particularly lights and the Jagermech. The Kit Fox specifically is extremely horrible in terms of stock armor.


Lastly, there's still gonna be mech/weapon balance issues. Some stock mechs are inherently superior to other stock mechs. Half of the stock mechs were literally designed as direct upgrades over their predecessors, with absolutely no drawback other than costing a little bit more spacebucks.

Weapons like Gauss and ballistics would be preferred (when the loadout is lucky enough to have sufficient ammo) because of undersinked loadouts, and mechs equipped with DHS would be abjectly superior to SHS-equipped mechs. Some loadouts are also just really lucky, such as the Stormcrow Prime (which is almost Tier 1 right out of the box, even against customized builds).

Clan Omnimechs outside of certain bad ones (i.e. Gargoyle, Kit Fox, Ice Ferret, etc. have horrid stock builds) would curbstomp the vast, vast majority of IS stocks into the ground. Even the DHS equipped ones.


...So you can have stock mode if you really want to, but just don't pretend that it's perfect, because it's not.

Edited by FupDup, 16 January 2015 - 10:14 PM.

[Scratx]

FupDup's right, stock mode would just show why the Clan Invasion ripped through the Inner Sphere in canon like a hot knife through butter.

Though I disagree with FupDup on which part is the worst regarding stock mechs. Ammo is the worst on almost every mech that has ammunition-reliant weapons. Seriously, they all usually have a ton of ammo per gun at most. That's fine in tabletop... usually... but it's woefully insufficient in MWO.

Armor and heatsinks for most mechs ends up being a lesser issue compared to the very low combat endurance of ammo-reliant stock mechs.

I don't think it's a coincidence mechs such as the CPLT-K2 do well stock...

[jackswift]

I would definitely play. That would bring me back to playing on a semi-regular basis. Makes mech choice matter a whole lot more and maybe introduce some more role warfare. But like FupDup said, there are mechs that will just flat out dominate Stock mode. Maybe if they limit the mode to a certain time period(s)...

[GreyNovember]

For as long as when we're up against clans, our IS mechs get better cooling to compensate for stock SHS.

I tried using a missile locust once with them, thinking it'd be cool enough to compensate. It was awful.

[HAV0C]

Brody319, on 16 January 2015 - 09:59 PM, said:

I would love it. Because I typically like to run a mech stock one or two times before I fix it up unless the stock is unbearable.

Though the Pirate's bane would dominate since its perfect stock.

Not all Stock 'mechs are created equal. The Pirate's Bane would be a fairly good light 'mech in Stock, but it does have low armor, and has to get close to be at its best damage output putting it in range of much more powerful weaponry (AC 20's, SRM's) that could cripple it in a single shot.

Honestly, if we're talking light 'mechs in stock, the Raven variant with a TAG & NARC launcher could be a brutal wild weasel. Coupled with some solid Medium, Heavy, and Assault 'mechs with larger LRM launchers, that team could put some serious damage on target before the LRM's run dry and give that team the edge on damage attrition before the brawling starts.

That's just an example. But yea, I enjoy finding uses for every 'mech and build in the stock load out and how to incorporate those different 'mechs into drop decks effectively. Here's hoping we see this game mode added at some point.

<S>

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

[Kiiyor]

I love the idea, but i'm cautious about facing stock Clan machines in stock 'Sphere fodder.

The rules on modules and mech masteries would also have to be clarified. No modules, mech masteries disabled for stock mechs?

Edit: and Quirks? How would quirks work? Some of the perks would make mechs like the HunchBack and Awesome destroyers of worlds. Hmmm, maybe not a bad thing.

Edited by Kiiyor, 16 January 2015 - 10:39 PM.

[HAV0C]

I'd like to play a Community Warfare match with Stock Clan 'mechs versus Stock IS 'mechs some time as a test bed and see just how wide the gap between the two tech bases is in MWO, Of course I think leaving quirks in would help keep said tech gap somewhat smaller.

Modules also have an effect, not sure if disabling them completely is necessary, but leaving consumable modules would be interesting perhaps. Cool Shots would help those 'mechs with high heat able to stay in a firefight longer, etc.

I'm not saying a Stock 'mech game mode would be perfect, but nothing is. I've fought Clan 'mechs in IS 'mechs in previous iterations of Mechwarrior and handled myself just fine against their tech advantage with better tactics. (Not saying I'm an amazing pilot, but superior tactics can level the playing field quite a lot.)

Just offering more ideas and thoughts. Good discussion so far. Let's keep it up.

<S>

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

[InspectorG]

It would be cool to have.

Spider V is pimp in stock matches.

As are Locusts.

You WILL need to skew the numbers differently, 12 v 8, 8 v 5, etc.
Clan would roll IS in stock if numbers are even.

[HAV0C]

I agree, there would need to be a limit of some kind put in place to offset the tech difference. Be it a hard number limit (2 Lances of four I.S. 'mechs vs. 1 star of five Clan 'mechs, or 12 I.S. vs. 10 Clan), or a different tonnage limit per side with the Clan side having less overall tonnage for the drop. I think using both of these restrictions coupled together might perhaps be thest way to offset the vast difference/superiority between the Clan & I.S. tech bases.

We'll see what happens, but yea, at very least the I.S. should have a 2 to 3 'mech numbers advantage over the Clans in most stock games.

Just my opinion on that. See you guys soon.

<S>

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

Edited by HAV0C, 16 January 2015 - 11:39 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Best possible way to do it would be to make 1 world in CW where everyone could attack, regardless of faction. Regardless of borders. And then make it a stock mech only world. Ideally, you wouldn't even need to drop in a stock mech, but the game would put you in the stock variant of whatever mechs you put in your drop deck.

A separate stock mech queue would probably be bad for the game.

I really, really, really want stock mech battles though.

[HAV0C]

Alistair Winter, on 16 January 2015 - 11:48 PM, said:

Best possible way to do it would be to make 1 world in CW where everyone could attack, regardless of faction. Regardless of borders. And then make it a stock mech only world. Ideally, you wouldn't even need to drop in a stock mech, but the game would put you in the stock variant of whatever mechs you put in your drop deck.

A separate stock mech queue would probably be bad for the game.

I really, really, really want stock mech battles though.

That would be a fun way to implement it for sure. Also, I agree that at current the game probably doesn't have sufficient population to warrant a stand alone stock queue game mode, but having a way to play stock mode in some form would be preferable to none, even if only in Community Warfare drops on one specific planet.

Who knows. I hope more info on this comes out in future updates & Town Hall Q&A sessions.

<S> See y'all soon.

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

[Tony Benoit]

Stock mechs would be fun a [Heck].


Issue is, some mechs with DHS are straight up better. Would have to somehow restrict it or give SHS 1.5x efficiency and capacity.

Edited by NotMwHighlander, 17 January 2015 - 12:23 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Yeah, in terms of implementation you just pick the mech you want as normal, and the game swaps it's loadout (for that match only) to a 100% stock loadout. This way you don't have to keep adding/removing DHS and such, and can easily participate with any mech you own and trial chassis.

It would have all the problems Fup outlines, so you wouldn't want it in a serious environment, though.

[HAV0C]

"Serious environment" is relative. I could organize a stock 'mech drop tournament (I.S. vs Clan) or pure I.S. vs I.S./Clan vs. Clan and do private lobbies/drops to accomplish it while being as serious as any highly organized drop you've been in or watched on twitch.

It would be the people/units participating that make the difference.

Also, yea it seems like it would be easy to use the trial 'mech interface to facilitate stock mode. Just expand the trial 'mech list to include all 'Mechs you own in game to the list in their stock configuration when you check the 'Stock Mode' check box. If you own that particular 'mech and it has a unique paint job, it keeps the paint scheme of course. All modules are removed as well while in Stock Mode, for consistencies's sake.

Heck, I wouldn't mind expanding it to allow all stock 'mechs in game to become available once you select Stock Mode, with the obvious note that any 'mechs you own with unique paint schemes maintain the paint scheme while in Stock Mode as above.

<S> Thoughts to ponder. Take it easy everyone.

-Colonel Andrew "Havoc" Davis
Death's Hand Brigade Mercenaries

[Senor Cataclysmo]

Eonai, on 16 January 2015 - 10:25 PM, said:

For as long as when we're up against clans, our IS mechs get better cooling to compensate for stock SHS.

I tried using a missile locust once with them, thinking it'd be cool enough to compensate. It was awful.

As soon as you start adjusting mechs to compensate for certain things it's no longer stock mode. If you give IS mechs better cooling to offset the deficiencies of their stock loadouts, you might as well give them more armour. And ammo. etc etc until all of sudden we're back at normal MWO.

Stock mode might be fun and nostalgic, but I don't think its a realistic solution to any of the things people complain about for reasons you have essentially pointed out yourself.

I'm not against having it as a game mode, but I don't think people will like it much if it does happen.