78 replies to this topic

[MacWarrior]

Pardon me but, aren't Mechs too humanized?
From an old activision MW lover point of view, these MWO machines seem a bit too humanized. The way they stand @ the pics, their body parts (some do seem to wear diapers?? *Atlas).
And what about having fingers?? What are they for in a giant metal war machine? Unless you get a key assigned to the midle finger and the 'up yours' correspondent animation (hint) what else could possible justify them? And i could go on with hands, arms, eyes and mouths... i mean, come on, battle mechs, IMHO are supposed to be raw.. "simple" guns-on-legs machines. They should be like vertical tanks or something that you "drive", and not robots, right? Giving them human resemblances turns them more cute Transformers rather than frightening Battle Mechs i think. Yes, alright, not all have those "appendices", but still..

This is a transformer
http://betow.files.w...ansformers3.jpg

This is a Battle Mech
http://media.moddb.c.../8528/67764.jpg

Just to keep you focused

Can't wait for it to come Live thou. Keep it up Piranhas

[Adridos]

I think it is just because the more humanistic robots are easier to make, so the artist (I forgot his name) used them to have some pictures ready in no time and then he will shift to those more real designs.

[Blue Shark]

I always think about Battle Mech as a (sort of) realistic war machine. Well, i really can't imagine such a war machine that walks the battlefield, having a hand with fingers. It would be simply ineffective - those fingers must be really fragile.

So i hope it is like Adridos said )

[Woodstock]

errr ... Well From the very beginning of the game, and all the canon books that came with them, a huge number of mechs had hands.

They used them for picking up other things ... ... well in any way a human uses their hands. Punching ... climbing ... ripping things apart.

If your only experience of the game world is through the MW computer games you would be forgiven for not knowing this but the computer games are really only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the Battletech IP.

I am still holding out hope for us to be able to pick up massive iron girders / melee weapons and clobber other mechs with them.

Sadly we have been told this wont be in the game until they can work out a way to do it 'right'.

Edited by woodstock, 24 November 2011 - 04:25 AM.

[johnyocum]

There are times when BattleMechs are used on supply raids, and a 'Mech with hands can grab large containers of parts, while a 'Mech without hands can only provide cover. There's also a sort of 'dangle-and-drop' in some of the older movement rules that only 'Mechs with hands could do, to get down somewhere 3 levels or more lower without jumping or falling off the cliff.

Also, the comments about melee attacks with 'Mechs holds true here. There are even some with built-in hand-held weapons (Hatchetman, Axman, Berserker spring to mind immediately) for melee. There's also the possibility that the Unseen version of the Battlemaster was able to switch the PPC from arm to arm by a tech making just a few hook-ups, as the PPC was 'fully disengagable' according to the fluff on it, which would mean those with hands and hand-held weapons of any kind could have that weapon moved to the other hand if a pilot of different dominant hand was assigned there.

[Saurok]

The "Walking Tank" concept really seems to be strong on PC gaming side. Many BattleMechs
feature hands with fingers. Many of my favorite mechs have hands and look very humanoid.

Maybe it is because gamers have embraced classical 3050 Clan Omni designs such as Timber Wolf or
Mad Dog. While Phoenix Hawk and other humanoid designs are "wrong" since they are not been present
in PC games as much as "Walking Tank" models.

Once Clans show up, I want to be able to purchase Phoenix Hawk IIC from Diamond Sharks.
http://www.sarna.net...xhawk_iic_4.jpg

[Bear Shaman]

Old Star League designs tend to look this way. Up until the Inner Sphere starts producing mechs to counter the clans, a good rule of thumb (not always true, but usually) is that you can identify a mech's origins largely by its legs. A bird-legged mech is most frequently built by the clans, while the more humanoid designs are typically of Inner Sphere design, even if they've been equipped with clan tech (the IIc models).

EDIT: Just realized my above post is largely incorrect, and that the bird-legged look pretty much belongs to omnimechs in general. Even venerable clan assault mechs like the Kodiak still look somewhat humanoid. So I guess bird legs = Omnimech, straight legs = standard Battlemech.

EDIT: Dangit, still wrong. Even the little Locust has bird legs. Okay, forget the rule of thumb. A lot of Inner Sphere designs in this period are humanoid, and the bird legged design is simply more common to the clans.

Edited by Bear Shaman, 24 November 2011 - 06:35 AM.

[Cattra Kell]

I think people forget that Battlemechs can move just as smooth as any human it just requires the right pilot. In the novels there are tales of hand to hand combat, mechs such as the Phoenix Hawk or Stinger punching into enemy cockpit and of course the melee only mechs such as the Axman.

Mechs were made to be walking tanks and some are just that, but others, though still bulky, are able to move just as fluently as a human, able to prone, kneel, jump without Jump Jets, and engage in hand to hand. Though all this is rare due to the skill required to perform such actions is quite high it is still all possible with a battlemech.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

I just don't know....what those hands are for...arg they're so stupid! /sarcasm; love me my humanoid mechs with hands

[Odin]

Well OP put it very well. This is simply the first time we see outstanding Mech concepts full of detail, well drawn.
Alex Iglesias got an eye for whats specific about each Mech and translate it into some way to show its "working". There are endless numbers of unique hand designs and structures in BT-world. Its now so dominant, cos its upfront, drawn precise and savvy.
IMO

Edited by Odin, 24 November 2011 - 09:00 AM.

[SquareSphere]

IS mechs designs tend to follow the humanoid form of design while Clan mechs tend to go with weapon for arms/hands.

[SJ SCP Wolf]

Well I gotta be honest here I thought this thread was something different given the title, so I am going to reply to what iI hoped the thread was about and what it is about.

Optiumus Prime vs Battlemaster

Winner
Optimus Prime 100/100 fights. Battlemechs cannot cope with the agility of a transformer.

Now about mechs becoming real one day. To everyone who says laws physics derp derp cant have mechs. We had dinosaurs. Why not mechs. The only real limitation is materials science. The laws of physics allow man and man sized robot to run, a dino sized robot would also run given the proper materials. Is this possible today? Not unless there is a secret code to the periodic table, but in 100 or 1000 years? I wouldn't want to bet against the Japanese not giving it one hell of a good try.

Would a mech be useful on a battlefield? I don't think so. Not unless it had the agility to be a giant infantry man. I don't want to hear about the fragility of the mech either, when nothing is more fragile (and squishy) than a human solider.

OP:
So uh, have you seen many IS mechs?

http://www.sarna.net...5U_Commando.jpg
http://www.sarna.net...025_bmaster.jpg
http://www.sarna.net...025_Victor1.jpg
http://www.sarna.net...-3025_Zeus1.jpg

Notice the distinct humanoid shapes. Heck a battlemaster can drop its PPC and box.

Edited by SJ SCP Wolf, 24 November 2011 - 09:14 AM.

[walkingraven]

A mech should have hands. One will always need to pick up and move things.

As for mechs being realistically possible? Every nation operating in WWII fielded 50 ton war machines in droves. And we've all been witness to the power and speed of modern hydraulics. Admittedly I do not have a degree in engineering, but the only real limiting divider between mech and battletank today is upward profile and a 60 mile an hour run speed.
If anyone here has played it, Chromehounds is a proper depiction of modern mechs.

[Arnold Carns]

SJ SCP Wolf, on 24 November 2011 - 09:10 AM, said:

Optiumus Prime vs Battlemaster

Winner
Optimus Prime 100/100 fights. Battlemechs cannot cope with the agility of a transformer.

Seems you didn't read the "Gray Death Trilogy" by William H. Keith talking about "agility" of a BattleMech. There it's described, how agile 'Mechs are, especially the "Shadowhawk".
If you've read them, we then could talk again.

[KingCobra]

To understand it all you must go back to FASA 1984 and BattleTechs original name (BattleDroids) the devs at that time were imersed in the Starwars Universe per say and wanted a alternate reality game based on starwars.So Battledroids was born due to legal copyrights the name was changed to Battletech.The devs saw in starwars the Humanlike robots and incorperated them into the board game why?Becouse we can relate as humans easyer to a human face on anything and a robot is no exception.

In truth im a big fan of transformers and there 3D robot models in a way they are as realistic as the battlemechs in MechWarrior.In fact Macross Mechs represent humanoid battlearmor suits with hands,ect even more human like aspects were represented in the games HeavyGear & HeavyGear2 which was a blast to play solo or multiplayer.After that the devs that made the Pc series just assumed that using the Battletech universe as a whole would produce profits as long as they included some Human looking robot features.So a mixture of humanlike and nonhumanlike 3d models were used and even though they the humanlike robots in reality would not be practicle they must be included in games so they are not Alien to us and we feel socialy inclined to accept them in our gamming world.
After stating all this i think i will play a game of PC transformers becouse i just like tearing stuff up with my ninja like tossing moves.

[SJ SCP Wolf]

Arnold Carns, on 24 November 2011 - 09:32 AM, said:

Seems you didn't read the "Gray Death Trilogy" by William H. Keith talking about "agility" of a BattleMech. There it's described, how agile 'Mechs are, especially the "Shadowhawk".
If you've read them, we then could talk again.

Actually I have, but I don't put much stock in the novels for anything but timeline, story and character development. Descriptions of maneuvers, weapon effects, and even the movement of mechs varies wildly from author to author. Going from CBT, the amount of movement penalties and the skill level required to execute even the basics (derp walking backward down a slope fall break both legs) without failing is pretty big so I try to keep the "what a mech is possible of" rooted in CBT.

[BLeeD]

the fingers are short ranged missles, you guys didnt know that ?? hahaha

[Artanis Creed]

...all the spelling errors and misused words... ok that aside...

Mechs with hands are able to do a lot more things than those without...true at the cost of a bit of firepower. But the versitality gained is worth the price imo.

Also...transformers and mechs from bt/mw aren't very god comparisons. You would have to compare something with similar performance profiles. Like for instance...a Zaku would lose so horribly to ANYTHING in bt...seriously almost as bad as TIE fighters.. But the original Gundam would be on par with a heavy light or a light medium.

Macross/Robotech already had a few of their designs used as a basis for mechs in BT/MW. So i think we can assume they have similar performance windows.

An Armored Core from AC4/ACFA would completely own anything in BT/MW. I bet a rail cannon would be the only thing that could sratch an AC.

Wanzers from Front Mission would most likely be overmatched by lights.

Good portion of the mecha anime mecha would outpace the BT/MW mechs.

i could go on..but i dont want to spend all day comparing things.

Edited by Artanis Creed, 24 November 2011 - 10:05 AM.

[Kudzu]

SJ SCP Wolf, on 24 November 2011 - 09:10 AM, said:

Optiumus Prime vs Battlemaster

Winner
Optimus Prime 100/100 fights. Battlemechs cannot cope with the agility of a transformer.

Optimus would spend 20 minutes giving an "epic" speech that sounded like a 12 year old wrote it, the Battlemaster pilot would use that time to line up the perfect alpha strike.

[SJ SCP Wolf]

Artanis Creed, on 24 November 2011 - 10:04 AM, said:

...all the spelling errors and misused words... ok that aside...

Mechs with hands are able to do a lot more things than those without...true at the cost of a bit of firepower. But the versatility gained is worth the price imo.

Also...transformers and mechs from bt/mw aren't very god comparisons. You would have to compare something with similar performance profiles. Like for instance...a Zaku would lose so horribly to ANYTHING in bt...seriously almost as bad as TIE fighters.. But the original Gundam would be on par with a heavy light or a light medium.

Macross/Robotech already had a few of their designs used as a basis for mechs in BT/MW. So i think we can assume they have similar performance windows.

An Armored Core from AC4/ACFA would completely own anything in BT/MW. I bet a rail cannon would be the only thing that could sratch an AC.

Wanzers from Front Mission would most likely be overmatched by lights.

Good portion of the mecha anime mecha would outpace the BT/MW mechs.

i could go on..but i dont want to spend all day comparing things.

Ehhh I think a gundam wins against nearly any mech. Why? because it can fly and lolsaber. Any Gundam newer than the original could do to BT mechs what they do in the Gundam anime. It just wouldn't be fair.

Wanzers? They may be slow and plodding in the game, but the cut scenes those things move with speed and quickness. I think they could tackle most lights and meds.

Totally agree with the AC comparison. Battlemechs wouldn't be able to touch them.

Kudzu, on 24 November 2011 - 10:08 AM, said:

Optimus would spend 20 minutes giving an "epic" speech that sounded like a 12 year old wrote it, the Battlemaster pilot would use that time to line up the perfect alpha strike.

Since he's an IS pilot that alpha strike would miss anyway and his cockpit would be crushed in shortly thereafter by the righteous fist of a Prime.

Edited by SJ SCP Wolf, 24 November 2011 - 10:14 AM.