465 replies to this topic

[Ultimax]

MeiSooHaityu, on 19 January 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

I pilot lights too without special modules. That's not the point.

With a Light queue of less than 10% regularly, maybe the majority of the playerbase needs incentives. This is one possible way to do it.

Can't balance the game around the occasional awesome light player, we need to help promote the class to other players.

I don't even see that many players in the solo queue bring UAVs or Arty in the first place, and seriously who is bringing the adv sensor module outside of LRM boats or some really dedicated lights anyway?

I doubt telling players that if they play light mechs, they alone will have the ability to spend 80k cbills per match to perform their role that this will entice anyone.


The reason the light queue is so low, is mostly because this is a big stompy robot game and lights are the least big, and the least stompy.

[Fate 6]

Kilo 40, on 18 January 2015 - 04:57 AM, said:

It says that it is a popular, and a good mech.

being popular and good is not a reason to make it less good and less popular.

It's popular because it is head over heels better than the other lights.

If you knew anything about BALANCE, you'd know that this situation means either the other lights all need buffs or the Firestarter needs nerfs. I think in this case it's a bit of both. The Firestarter shouldn't be a threat to anything it finds, which right now it is (barring a streak Crow).

[MeiSooHaityu]

Ultimatum X, on 19 January 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

I don't even see that many players in the solo queue bring UAVs or Arty in the first place, and seriously who is bringing the adv sensor module outside of LRM boats or some really dedicated lights anyway?

I doubt telling players that if they play light mechs, they alone will have the ability to spend 80k cbills per match to perform their role that this will entice anyone.


The reason the light queue is so low, is mostly because this is a big stompy robot game and lights are the least big, and the least stompy.

I suppose I am a rarity, because I bring UAVs into all my matches in PUG play. An UAV is the only way to get a PUG team to respond. You can type out enemy locations in team chat till your fingers fall off, but the team won't respond unless they see their mini-map light up with red triangles.

The largest complaint is that there is no role warfare for lights. I agree, there isn't. When it is a game of the biggest and baddest sompy robots trumps all, you need to carve a niche for lights. Trying to give lights specific roles is a start to...you know...role warfare.

If the C-Bill thing for scouting modules is an issue, reduce the price for light mechs or remove the price for that class all together (although I think that is a bit much).

It's all brain storming here anyway.

[CygnusX7]

90% of the 4% light queue isn't very much.

[Ultimax]

Fate 6, on 19 January 2015 - 08:24 AM, said:

It's popular because it is head over heels better than the other lights.

If you knew anything about BALANCE, you'd know that this situation means either the other lights all need buffs or the Firestarter needs nerfs. I think in this case it's a bit of both. The Firestarter shouldn't be a threat to anything it finds, which right now it is (barring a streak Crow).

Considering the light queue is typically under 10%, I'll go with "the scrub lights need more buffs".

[Widowmaker1981]

Ever think the light queue is low because people are generally here for big stompy robot game, and lights do not feel either big or stompy? and not because at their potential, they are bad? Because i see lights carry hard pretty often.

[Devilsfury]

Russ said that they put in a tweak or fix for the Firestarters. ROFL, you know what? It did nothing. 99% of every kill on a firestarter or Spider happen only after they have been legged. I have personally put an AC20 and 4 SRM6;s in the back of a standing Firestarter and it just flashes yellow all over. HUH????? Id kill half the mechs in game with that Alpha. Fix the stupid **** Russ!

[Nutlink]

Widowmaker1981, on 19 January 2015 - 03:06 AM, said:

If we had no customization, do you know what would happen? The game would zero in on the handful of reasonably well designed mechs in all of BT and every single other chassis would be useless. You think we have lack of variety now?
Also - clans. Their stock mechs are for the most part decent(ish) builds and would roflstomp IS stock mechs in 99% of cases without trying, meaning for balance youd have to run something like 10 clan vs 16 IS = 99.999923% of people choose clan because everyone wants to be the hero, not the zergling.

I think you missed the part where I mentioned perks based on the loadout. They wouldn't have to stand 100% to TT standards, ala MWLL, or even provide the kind of perks we see here to help even it out. Besides, I'd rather they have stuck with a 3025 game, like the Unreal Engine 3 teaser we were shown was originally going to do. Sticking with Level One tech makes this a LOT easier to balance out.

Widowmaker1981, on 19 January 2015 - 03:06 AM, said:

plus customisation is half the fun

Not for me. When a mech is changed so much that it doesn't reflect its original loadout it ceases to be the mech I enjoyed using over the years. This is even more amplified by the fact that I don't physically see my mech in the game except in the MechLab, so why should I care what chassis I'm using anymore if I 1) can't see it and 2) have a completely different weapons loadout on it?

Lily from animove, on 19 January 2015 - 03:22 AM, said:

so why did it not made it out of the beta? Bets experience for who? some TT lore fetischictsts or the people wanting to play MW?
I didn't even heard of it, so can't be as awesome as you described. So it got probably hyped more amongts a tight community as it truly had substance.

I'd imagine you're not really into the series if you don't recall MPBT 3025. It didn't make it out of beta because EA was developing it and they lost the license once it was sold off to Microsoft (and the developers who were working on it shut down immediately thereafter), who then pushed out MW4 instead. MPBT 3025 had the type of community warfare we only wish we could see here, but it wasn't "mainstream" enough compared to the colorful, dumbed down version of MW4 that was released. Back then we didn't HAVE arguments between "TT lore fetischictsts" and anyone else because back then people wanted to adhere to the original rules that sucked them in to begin with. Just because the community is split that way now doesn't mean it's always been that way - blame MW4 for that one.

Lily from animove, on 19 January 2015 - 03:22 AM, said:

The system we have now is good, all it needs is proper balance, abominations like the TDR are wrong, when they make other emchs obsolete, and this also counts for the SCR and TBR. they need some nerfs, but it will make a lot people qq qho use that emchs on daily base as a built in success crutch.

We've ALWAYS had balance problems here, that's the thing. Catapults with twin Gauss/AC20s or Streakboats, SRMs that did insane damage, LRMpocalypse, the poptarts of Victor/Highlander/Cataphracts, the quad PPC Stalker, the Clans on release, and now the TBR/SCR/TDR-9S. It's been almost 3 years and this game STILL isn't balanced, what makes you think it will be any time soon?

Like I said already, though, this is a wasted discussion on this game. It is what it is and it's not changing any time soon.

Edited by Nutlink, 19 January 2015 - 09:55 AM.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

Like Nutlink said its not a weapon issue, its not a mech issue, its not a quirk issue. Its the boating pinpoint damage issue. MWO will continue to suffer these build until Piranha games gets the idea that boating is really not a fun, and its almost impossible to balance via weapon, mech, ghostheat, and quirk "fixes". At this point I'd be happy to see some serious limits on what weapons can be place where based on what the original weapon is, and some limitations on group and/or cool downs on same weapon types firing together. Until then its a CoD with MWO skins.

[Yokaiko]

Widowmaker1981, on 19 January 2015 - 09:01 AM, said:

Ever think the light queue is low because people are generally here for big stompy robot game, and lights do not feel either big or stompy? and not because at their potential, they are bad? Because i see lights carry hard pretty often.

More like because driving a light is three times the work for a quarter of the reward.

Moreso, since they nerfed the hell out of the TAG and NARC bonuses. I used to be able to take my support shitfox and rack XP like mad narcing, tagging and gennerally making myself annoying. Those days are over.

The game pays for ONE thing. Raw ass damage, which is a LOT more work with a light than it is with any other weight class.

[Ultimax]

Yokaiko, on 19 January 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

More like because driving a light is three times the work for a quarter of the reward.

Moreso, since they nerfed the hell out of the TAG and NARC bonuses. I used to be able to take my support shitfox and rack XP like mad narcing, tagging and gennerally making myself annoying. Those days are over.

The game pays for ONE thing. Raw ass damage, which is a LOT more work with a light than it is with any other weight class.

This isn't my experience at all, my mediums and lights tend to be the best at farming the hell out of the flanking & protection bonuses, etc.

Most of my Assaults went down in payouts, even when I'm clearly pulling a lot more weight in damage/kills than I can in my mediums.


Do a full review of the bonuses, watch on screen when you get them and then work on farming them.

The payouts are there for fast mechs, and you don't need a crapton of damage dealt to earn it.

[Yokaiko]

Ultimatum X, on 19 January 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

This isn't my experience at all, my mediums and lights tend to be the best at farming the hell out of the flanking & protection bonuses, etc.

Most of my Assaults went down in payouts, even when I'm clearly pulling a lot more weight in damage/kills than I can in my mediums.


Do a full review of the bonuses, watch on screen when you get them and then work on farming them.

The payouts are there for fast mechs, and you don't need a crapton of damage dealt to earn it.

Yes, you do.

2 kills and 600 damage is a VERY VERY good game in a firestarter with 140m range. Its barely decent with a wub. Protection hits and flanking bonuses don't compare. The big winners are most damage and savior kills. Savior is a strange one, there is no way to judge it, but most damage racks like mad.

[Zolaz]

Complaining about the Firestarter using 8 SPL is funny. What is the range of the SPL,170m? Dont you have better range than that mech? The Firestarter is a brawler using the smallest and pretty heat efficient weapons in the game. You can do the same thing with 6 of them in a Jenner and get similar results. If you are a brawler you get to be fast because you sacrificed range and can throw the tonnage into your engine. As a light you get to run with an XL as IS ... Clan always runs with XL anyways.

I am pretty sure those Timberwolves and such can handle 2 AC 20 or Gauss rounds than the Firestarter can.

[Bigbacon]

yea the less than 10% queue numbers on lights means they need a nerf...

people have been asking for PGI to do something about this for ages and they don't really do anything.

I mastered all mine with 245XL engines so they are certainly still pretty lethal even at speeds below 125. your day can get ruined pretty quickly as in any mech.

[InspectorG]

Jman5, on 18 January 2015 - 11:34 PM, said:

I'm sorry, but have you all looked at the light queue lately?



Most of my matches have only one or two lights per team. There is no firestarter scourge sweeping the game. And even if they were, Firestarters have laughably short range with those pulse lasers. Even with the quirk and a level 5 range mod, you have less than 140 meters for optimal damage. If I was piloting a mech that was utterly impotent beyond 270 meters, I would think it deserves to be a little OP at close quarters. Otherwise, why bring a short range mech at all if longer range builds were just as competitive at any range?

Now I think a firestarter 9A is a great mech and quite dangerous at close quarters. I've fought them a lot in bigger mechs and have had good players turn me on my head. However, their role is limited and requires them to essentially dive-bomb the enemy team in moments of confusion. For every one firestarter I see pull this off, I see two or three get utterly obliterated in seconds.

You know there was a time when I had this idea of creating the ultimate light hunter with a Kintaro. I stacked him up with streaks and made it my mission to bully lights every game. However eventually I realized how pointless the whole thing was. Outside Conquest, most light pilots die without contributing much to their team. They get wrecked by a couple of big alphas and they're out of commission. Using my mech just to fight those handful of good light pilots was a waste. Streakboats can easily hardcounter firestarters 9As. The fact that so few people bother should tell you how little threat most lights are in this game.

Only 10% of the population can handle the OP.

Rest is scareded and hide behind using a bigger mech.

[Yokaiko]

Devilsfury, on 19 January 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

Russ said that they put in a tweak or fix for the Firestarters. ROFL, you know what? It did nothing. 99% of every kill on a firestarter or Spider happen only after they have been legged. I have personally put an AC20 and 4 SRM6;s in the back of a standing Firestarter and it just flashes yellow all over. HUH????? Id kill half the mechs in game with that Alpha. Fix the stupid **** Russ!

My issue today has been cicadas.

One ate FOUR full alphas to the face with a red torso, killed me and ran off.

[Thorqemada]

Light numbers be skewed bcs Clan Lights that can not keep up with IS Lights.

Light Mech is the only Weightclass were the IS is stronger than the Clans.
Lights be not Iconic like Mad Dogs and Mad Cats.
People have been taught bigger is better.
Lights move at speeds many PCs are unable to cope with.

[Lily from animove]

Zolaz, on 19 January 2015 - 11:15 AM, said:

Complaining about the Firestarter using 8 SPL is funny. What is the range of the SPL,170m? Dont you have better range than that mech? The Firestarter is a brawler using the smallest and pretty heat efficient weapons in the game. You can do the same thing with 6 of them in a Jenner and get similar results. If you are a brawler you get to be fast because you sacrificed range and can throw the tonnage into your engine. As a light you get to run with an XL as IS ... Clan always runs with XL anyways.

I am pretty sure those Timberwolves and such can handle 2 AC 20 or Gauss rounds than the Firestarter can.

and what is that range worth when maps are so small that you can not fire at those ranges? Especially with allt he cover everywhere. And even if you get him at 300m range hitreg just says: "nonononono, you do not hurt this little one."
Give me hitreg and maps of MW3 and the Firestarter wont walk more than 500m in his entire pitiful light existence.

The entire issue with current mas are the size. lights have no real prupose no ral own role, and unless they are "firestarter gifted" ones they are still the same playsytels over and over.

imagine we had maps being big and real scuting would had to happen. Then maybe more poeple would play them becasue they have a role to furfill. but currently you nearly know all the time where opponents are, maps are too tiny to actually make a difference. river city, forest colony, frozen city, they are all so tiny, scouting is not even needed you can visually nearly observe the whole map. And terra therma? well if the cladera would not exist being THAT chokepoint. it would probably be a proper map giving lights a role.

[Ryoko Kombat]

Can't understand people who driving assault and can't handle a few lights. Might be you are "too pro" for this game?

Whiners gonna whine.

Edited by Ryoko Kombat, 19 January 2015 - 04:22 PM.

[Devilsfury]

Ryoko Kombat, on 19 January 2015 - 04:09 PM, said:

Can't understand people who driving assault and can't handle a few lights. Might be you are "too pro" for this game?

Whiners gonna whine.

I could bet you $100 that you bring your assault and Ill get someone who is very good at the Firestarter and you will lose 9 out of 10 games. You game? Everyone who has played this game for more than a week knows and understand just how broken the Firestarter is. It is literally the pound for pound king at taking damage. Anyone that says its not is either absolutely terrible in lights or is lying. there is NO other option.