465 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

The True Space Pope, on 24 January 2015 - 07:26 AM, said:

Pug stomping doesn't require anything but numbers. Against random pug players or groups, simply being on comms with one or two people means you win something like 75% of the time. So of course, if you roll with 8 players, you should expect to stomp some scrubs. If you then use your numbers and the fact you can communicate to use some tricky tactics, you pretty much win 90% of the time without much effort.

The Space Pope would suggest you go watch some of the competitive teams play and see how long a light that decides to go on recon by itself survives or really how often they send out light mechs on scouting runs or how often light mechs are not used as skirmishers.

To clarify, the Space Pope is trying to argue that you don't really need to scout, all of the maps, even Alpine are small enough that with a team on comms, you can easily setup in one position and simply watch the possible directions of approach the enemy may take.

And again, can you be a dedicated scout as a light pilot? Sure, but you are removing firepower from your team by fulfilling said role, which again is why it is not an ideal use of a light mech. Again, this isn't to say it's not a possible to scout or that on rare occasions it cannot be useful, but in most games, you don't need to go on scouting runs in the sense that you should avoid combat in a light mech.

To summarize:
Solo drop in a Light Mech: You need to kill stuff because you can't rely on your team to use their mechs correctly
Group Drop: A) In a small group, less than 4 players, you need to kill stuff because you can't rely on your team to do much In a large group, you win pretty much by default, but it is good if you kill/damage through skirmish style attacks to make it easier for your team C) On a rare blue moon, you or a fast medium might need to go save the base or check a far away line of approach
Comp Drop: You need to be able to kill/damage stuff to ensure your team can trade well in the kills

Man I wish this were true. I really do.

[Impossible Wasabi]

The Space Pope is sorry.

It is merely his experience that with anything more than a lance on comms it is generally quite hard to lose, unless he finds himself facing good teams or barring skill other groups with many more players in the match.

Edited by The True Space Pope, 24 January 2015 - 07:51 AM.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Stefka Kerensky, on 24 January 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

Do you wanna see my last 2 points compleating the challenge?




believe it or not 6 kills of 11 were done from behind, without those enemy pilots even realized I was f@#@#@# them from behind.
Never watching the hud? Or were they bots?

PGI please, Fs9 is fine. BUFF NOOBS a bit.

11 er ppcs only wound the fs,totally fine...

[STEF_]

Cookiemonter669, on 24 January 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

11 er ppcs only wound the fs,totally fine...

Already written my opinion about that video in a topic.

First of all, it's not true that FS9 survived. It diead for ammo explosion (but 2 seconds later. and this is not an issue of the FS9)

Second, that dire pilot doesn't take lag in account: FS9 is running towards the left, and the Dire aims the right side. Wrong aim. He hit the arm. (again it's not a FS9 issue)

Third, if you see these well:




... these pics show huge convergence issue (and not a FS9's one)

edit: another well know issue, it's hit reg for ppc....

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 24 January 2015 - 09:23 AM.

[Impossible Wasabi]

Pretty much a case of:

1) convergence (aiming at the landscape behind a FS is not a good way to hit one)
2) PPCs deciding randomly not to hit as they are wont to do on occasion
3) Spectator view is not trustworthy as a means of seeing where people are aiming or how they hit
4) It's hard to see exactly where the PPCs hit or how many of them (although the FS dies due to an ammo explosion from at least some of the PPCs hitting)

If anything the Space Pope finds it most interesting that an 11 ER PPC Daishi does not explode upon firing.

Edited by The True Space Pope, 24 January 2015 - 09:56 AM.

[Jacobei]

This is a joke... They nerfed the spider saying all the same things.... Non-light pilots just can't handle lights being an effective attack mech. No one has to be forced into a role that in non-profitable in comparison and only required 20-3% of the game.

I have watched a lot of bad players unable to shoot. Their skill was horrible but that some how makes them complain about light mech pilots that take advantage of this common weakness.

Edited by Jacobei, 24 January 2015 - 09:57 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Stefka Kerensky, on 24 January 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

Do you wanna see my last 2 points compleating the challenge?




believe it or not 6 kills of 11 were done from behind, without those enemy pilots even realized I was f@#@#@# them from behind.
Never watching the hud? Or were they bots?

PGI please, Fs9 is fine. BUFF NOOBS a bit.

mayebe PGI is testign KI, xD or the people playing are just truly horrible, I see them doing quite a lot noob things. enemy has 4 missiles boats? walk over that open plain!!! yeah.

what wonders me more is how those poeple if MM works somewhat normal get opposed or into my team. they can not even closely be in my elo tbh.

[Chadamir Fitzkrieg]

Lights are too fast. This is coming from a Commando pilot, I believe that the 97.2 stock mechs shouldn't surpass ~142. The Locust, Jenner, and Cicada deserve to be fast buggers due to their lore. This would make the Ice Ferret a more appealing mech in turn. Also would make the implementation of the Dasher and the Flea more interesting.

[ShinVector]

The video should be up shortly.

Do I blame the FS for making me lose my ARM at the 45 second mark ?
No... I blame PGI's netcode that caused the magical warp.

[Ultimax]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 January 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

Man I wish this were true. I really do.

Unfortunately it is true, with limited spawn points and heavily explored/memorized map positions - most 12 mans and comp teams/tourney teams do not need or really utilize heavy "scouting".

At most you just need someone fast to get a quick glimpse of which position/route the enemy decided on.


For dedicated scouting, the maps would need to be much, much larger. Not even Boreal is large enough for it to be a dedicated role.

On top of that, the way vision is purposefully limited in this game, and how radar works also means most lights aren't even suited to scouting far away from the main body.

Stefka Kerensky, on 24 January 2015 - 09:20 AM, said:

Already written my opinion about that video in a topic.

First of all, it's not true that FS9 survived. It diead for ammo explosion (but 2 seconds later. and this is not an issue of the FS9)

Second, that dire pilot doesn't take lag in account: FS9 is running towards the left, and the Dire aims the right side. Wrong aim. He hit the arm. (again it's not a FS9 issue)

Third, if you see these well:

... these pics show huge convergence issue (and not a FS9's one)

edit: another well know issue, it's hit reg for ppc....

Keep preaching, because the LRM-crutch players, "My Assault should be a god" players, and hyperbolic clan shill players are still going to continue this witch hunt against the one truly competitive light mech in the game.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 24 January 2015 - 10:34 AM.

[Impossible Wasabi]

Ultimatum X, on 24 January 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

Unfortunately it is true, with limited spawn points and heavily explored/memorized map positions - most 12 mans and comp teams/tourney teams do not need or really utilize heavy "scouting".

At most you just need someone fast to get a quick glimpse of which position/route the enemy decided on.


For dedicated scouting, the maps would need to be much, much larger. Not even Boreal is large enough for it to be a dedicated role.

On top of that, the way vision is purposefully limited in this game, and how radar works also means most lights aren't even suited to scouting far away from the main body.

Truth and nothing but the truth, sad as it may be.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ultimatum X, on 24 January 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

Unfortunately it is true, with limited spawn points and heavily explored/memorized map positions - most 12 mans and comp teams/tourney teams do not need or really utilize heavy "scouting".

At most you just need someone fast to get a quick glimpse of which position/route the enemy decided on.


For dedicated scouting, the maps would need to be much, much larger. Not even Boreal is large enough for it to be a dedicated role.

On top of that, the way vision is purposefully limited in this game, and how radar works also means most lights aren't even suited to scouting far away from the main body.







Keep preaching, because the LRM-crutch players, "My Assault should be a god" players, and hyperbolic clan shill players are still going to continue this witch hunt against the one truly competitive light mech in the game.

On so few maps... Maybe so. I just won't agree. I saw how good scouting helped victory.

[dario03]

ShinVector, on 24 January 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

The video should be up shortly.

Do I blame the FS for making me lose my ARM at the 45 second mark ?
No... I blame PGI's netcode that caused the magical warp.

It looks like you hit him fine except for when you got to his left leg after legging him, and then a friendly spider dropped down almost right on top of you and caused you to warp. Mechs falling like that seems to cause that warping a lot and sometimes the game just starts warping for no reason. About 12 hours ago people were warping all over the place in my games.

[DrxAbstract]

Ursh, on 18 January 2015 - 01:19 PM, said:

Once again I'll take the unpopular stand and say that I'm completely okay with seeing fewer 150kph energy boat lights in the game.

People say they're backstabbers...but that's not really using the word correctly. In games with rogues, which popularized the gaming concept of the backstab, once the rogue blew their stealth to backstab, they had to fight like normal afterwards. In MWO, it's more like backstab times 2 or 3, and then run behind cover at 150kph to cool down...dishing out bigger alphas than most jagermechs and cataphracts, while only needing 17% of total mech weight to do so. Max armor, couple of jump jets for maneuvering, max engine, and then blow a 1-3 tons on extra DHS.

The big reason more people aren't using lights is somewhat related to the same reason they're not playing COD.

I'm sorry, where are you pulling this 17% Total Weight figure from?

FS9 Base Weight with 0 Armor and Endo: 2 of 35 Tons. That's 33 Available Tons.

FS9-A Weapon Tonnage: 8 : 24.2%
FS9-A Firepower Tonnage: 11 (3 Heat Sinks) = 33.3%

Now if we did it out of 35 Tons, which makes no sense since you cant utilize the full weight of any Mech, it'd be 31.4%. That's a far cry from this 17% figure you pulled out of your ass.

I'm also not sure why you're comparing % Weapon Tonnages between Mechs as some sort of validation method - It's irrelevant because weapon weights do not increase with Mech Tonnage; the higher you go on the Mech Weight scale, the less % composition Weapons will have in general... Unless you're comparing 8 SPL ENERGY builds to multi-Gauss/AC20 BALLISTIC builds, etc... But... Why are you comparing Energy builds to Ballistic builds? Sounds like a BS to me.

The other thing being their Alpha Damage is not "more than most Jagermechs or Cataphracts". It does however have a faster Alpha, by less than a second, depending on which Jager/Cat build you were referencing with your generalized blanket statement.

Edited by DrxAbstract, 24 January 2015 - 12:16 PM.

[STEF_]

Ultimatum X, on 24 January 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

Unfortunately it is true, with limited spawn points and heavily explored/memorized map positions - most 12 mans and comp teams/tourney teams do not need or really utilize heavy "scouting".

At most you just need someone fast to get a quick glimpse of which position/route the enemy decided on.


For dedicated scouting, the maps would need to be much, much larger. Not even Boreal is large enough for it to be a dedicated role.

On top of that, the way vision is purposefully limited in this game, and how radar works also means most lights aren't even suited to scouting far away from the main body.

Keep preaching, because the LRM-crutch players, "My Assault should be a god" players, and hyperbolic clan shill players are still going to continue this witch hunt against the one truly competitive light mech in the game.

Lily from animove, on 24 January 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

mayebe PGI is testign KI, xD or the people playing are just truly horrible, I see them doing quite a lot noob things. enemy has 4 missiles boats? walk over that open plain!!! yeah.

what wonders me more is how those poeple if MM works somewhat normal get opposed or into my team. they can not even closely be in my elo tbh.

Yep. 4 of those 6 backstabbed were Lrm boats. It's so damn easy in Frozen city and Viridian to watch/guess where enemies are, and where the boats place themselves. So, in 30 sec. you can circumnavigate the map, and that's all. But what amazed me is those 6 weren't aware that I was murdering them from behind. It needed 3 alphas for each of them.... a lot of time, but they mainly were searching were to lock their lmr....
The others 2 at least started to search what was happening... but despite they twist left or right they kept their azzez towards me....

The other 5 kills of 11, not backstabbing, I did standling aside of heavies and assault, nothing more. Going 60/70 kph, support only. High dps makes FS9-A a good stealer.

That said I would love to pilot as a scout. Larger huge maps...it would be a dream!
Here, There's no need at all of scout (except Alpine, maybe, or Mordor)

Regarding MM.... I tried to understand how it works... but ... nope.... It seems MM mix together ppl "casually", but the total ELO should be balanced between the 2 teams. But, of course, this isn't the right way to balance a match!


edit. But hey! I pilot lrm boats too.... and i know there are many way to counter lights
In lrm boat I kill a lot of mechs standing in the open....and I read in the forum a lot of QQ about lrmboats too. soooo what must be nerfed?

I think that the T-Ball managed to do a lot of damage to young generations

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 24 January 2015 - 12:28 PM.

[Impossible Wasabi]

Stefka Kerensky, on 24 January 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

Yep. 4 of those 6 backstabbed were Lrm boats. It's so damn easy in Frozen city and Viridian to watch/guess where enemies are, and where the boats place themselves. So, in 30 sec. you can circumnavigate the map, and that's all. But what amazed me is those 6 weren't aware that I was murdering them from behind. It needed 3 alphas for each of them.... a lot of time, but they mainly were searching were to lock their lmr....
The others 2 at least started to search what was happening... but despite they twist left or right they kept their azzez towards me....

Cue a thread about how it is OP that the Firestarter can shoot Assault mechs from behind.

"I was killed from behind by a damn FS, the mech is OP and must be nerfed!"

Edited by The True Space Pope, 24 January 2015 - 12:30 PM.

[DrxAbstract]

ShinVector, on 24 January 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

The video should be up shortly.

Do I blame the FS for making me lose my ARM at the 45 second mark ?
No... I blame PGI's netcode that caused the magical warp.

Shin... your Spider teammate clearly collided with you while trying to join in. It wasnt lag or hit reg. PGI's collision coding... Yes. Nothing more.

[Kjudoon]

Jacobei, on 24 January 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

This is a joke... They nerfed the spider saying all the same things.... Non-light pilots just can't handle lights being an effective attack mech. No one has to be forced into a role that in non-profitable in comparison and only required 20-3% of the game.

I have watched a lot of bad players unable to shoot. Their skill was horrible but that some how makes them complain about light mech pilots that take advantage of this common weakness.

And I've seen many "mad skillz light pilots" who's "Mad Skillz" come at the expense of bad ping on their enemy's part, not because they were bad shots. You hit a certain speed, plus lag and suddenly, even though your enemy is putting their cursor where they need to hit you and they miss anyway. It's actually scary how bad they can miss too. One video I saw a spider win because of this, defeating a warhawk and 2 dire whales with full on meta cheese. These big boys at the end of the loss had accounted for almost all 11 other kills. They weren't bad shots and this isn't an uncommon experience.

Quote

I think that the T-Ball managed to do a lot of damage to young generations

Not as much as I'm seeing damage done from "Bumper Bowling" light pilots screaming about their mad skillz.

[DrxAbstract]

Cookiemonter669, on 24 January 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

11 er ppcs only wound the fs,totally fine...

As 8-9 of them missed completely because his crosshairs and thus weapon's convergence was set to hit something several hundred meters further away and he wasnt toggling Arm Lock for all weapons to hit the same spot... Not to mention it was a moving target, unlike the stationary Thunderbolt. Derp players gonna derp.

Edited by DrxAbstract, 24 January 2015 - 01:19 PM.

[Agent 0 Fortune]