465 replies to this topic

[Alek Ituin]

Jimmy Page, on 18 January 2015 - 04:37 AM, said:

When 90% of the lights are Firestarters, it should tell you something. They have the speed of a light with jumpjets and the firepower of mediums. They also have borked hit boxes the way the Spider used to. I'm sure the Firestarter pilots will say "stop whining, we have skill". I say pilot something else and see how well you do. Everyone knows your precious light is broken. PGI, fix please. The sooner the better.

Actually, other Lights should be as good as the Firestarter. It's not the Light we deserve *COUGH*PIRANHA*COUGH*, it's the Light we need. Because all of the rest got nerfed in to oblivion by whiners. Mind you some were actually OP, like Jenners in CBT (we all know it's true). But most of them caught s**t for the few OP Lights being OP, and now they're shi**y. Just like the situation with the Clanners, the rest of them are god awful just because the Holy Trinity is OP.

So no more nerfs. Just buff the other Lights back in to usefulness.


Oh yeah, and before you go off half cocked, I pilot Lolcusts... not Firestarters.

[Thorqemada]

I hear all the story about how good some People can aim and maybe sometimes they can do so.
But watching a Guy taking on a disconnected Catapult from 400m with tripple AC2s aiming for the Center/Cockpit area of a Mech not moving so the aim is steady and he blows up the Leg of the Catapult b4 the Center Torso than its hard to believe that something like 100% success at aiming can exist in this game and i take all the stories as annecdotal experience and not as fact.

Edited by Thorqemada, 20 January 2015 - 05:41 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Adiuvo, on 20 January 2015 - 05:36 PM, said:

There is a middle ground between those player's level and that of some guy who only gets 1. This middle ground is far more populated than you think it is. It isn't unobtainable, and to treat it as that is detrimental if you're seeking to improve in the game at all.

If you're not that's fine too, but it's unbecoming to claim that you're limited by the matchmaker when that plainly isn't the case.

Sorry, I can't follow that train of thought. What are you saying? It seems that you're now agreeing with me, but... not?

[Adiuvo]

Thorqemada, on 20 January 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

I hear all the story about how good some People can aim and maybe sometimes they can do so.
But watching a Guy taking on a disconnected Catapult from 400m with tripple AC2s aiming for the Center/Cockpit area of a Mech not moving so the aim is steady and he blows up the Leg of the Catapult b4 the Center Torso than its hard to believe that something like 100% success at aiming can exist in this game and i take all the stories as annecdotal experience and not as fact.

When mechs are DC'd their server position often differs from their client position.

Kjudoon, on 20 January 2015 - 05:41 PM, said:

Sorry, I can't follow that train of thought. What are you saying? It seems that you're now agreeing with me, but... not?

That it's possible to get a W/L above 1 assuming that you play well enough, and that doing this isn't limited to top tier pilots only.

[Impossible Wasabi]

Indeed, at present the Space Pope has a trial account where he holds win ratios over 1.50 running only Trial Jenners and pilots usually under the influence of several beers (aka he does not play very well on said account).

His lowest ratio is 1.63 using the Trial Centurion.

So the Space Pope can quite easily believe that a number of players can carry their teams enough that they break 2 or 3 in W/L. Especially if they are using well-built metabuilds of heavy or assault mechs (safeguarding some of the most vital classes of mechs in the solo que).

Edited by The True Space Pope, 20 January 2015 - 05:54 PM.

[ShinVector]

There should be separate W/L ratio state for True SOLO and Group games.
It should prove to be interesting.

[Cragger]

Give mechs non cannonical loudout options plus the ability to increase their walking speed and add on top of that quirks to back up those loadouts yeah it's going to break the system. And this doesn't apply to just lights. People have already forgotten about it but the Pulseback carrying 9 medium pulse lasers and a huge XL engine was the flavor a year ago for the same reasons.

Setup for it a Firestarter 9S can run around at top speed firing 5 medium pulse lasers non stop on the cooler maps. So since it is easy to hit the large legs of many mechs in comparison and the amount of point alpha you are bringing with 6 medium pulse lasers, 8 small pulse lasers it's easy to take the legs off say a full leg armor Stalker in 6 shots while at the same time he is struggling to bring his similar point alpha to bear on your tiny frame.

This of course all stems from the fact that point based armor was created for a dice roll turn based table top and this is a real time twitch based FPS. It has always been and will continue to be a flaw of the Mechwarrior franchise. The same reason that iconic mechs (Atlas) get F'ed over due to their geometry and weapon placement because their arms barely articulate and in table top cover (terrain) was either full or partial (covered legs) so the Atlas never had weapons he couldn't fire back.

Net result you are going to see this over and over in MWO through the lifespan since I doubt PGI will come up with a more proper twitch based rule system which MW should have always had, since A. Expensive and B. People are use to this. People will gravitate towards the powerful builds, PGI will restrict them, people will gravitate to new powerful builds and thus is repeats itself for infinity.

Edited by Cragger, 20 January 2015 - 06:01 PM.

[Flak Kannon]

As a Medium, Heavy, and Assault pilot I say....

No.

Please don't nerf the Firestarter.

That is all

[Eider]

Just consider it the stormcrow of lights.

[TheStrider]

Yes, lets nerf it and make it a death boat - just like every other light in history that showed itself to be useable.

[Impossible Wasabi]

TheStrider, on 20 January 2015 - 06:57 PM, said:

Yes, lets nerf it and make it a death boat - just like every other light in history that showed itself to be useable.

Lights are supposed to die unless they outnumber the enemy by a factor of at least four, didn't you know that? It is a cruel twist of fate, that has allowed the almighty Atlas to have it's paint scratched by the Light Mech piloting proletariat.

After all, it is a known fact that gamers enjoys being cannon-fodder in a games.

Sidebar: The Space Pope does not seriously believe in this theory and is merely trying to create a satirical post.

Edited by The True Space Pope, 20 January 2015 - 08:01 PM.

[WatDo]

I didn't read all 13 pages of this thread, but the real problem is as i'm sure a few people have said, Hitboxes and/or hit registration. That is to say for most lights, but i find the firestarter to be much harder to actually hit than anything else out there right now.

I can't remember how many times i've lined up an ac20/ac40/whatever to kill a FS with a torso shot only to see my shell/ppc/missles glitch right through it.

I think they carry a bit too much firepower for their weight and speed but if we could actually hit the things it wouldn't be a problem because they're still a light with light armor. Maybe take off a hardpoint or two, or lower the max engine some to balance it with other lights, but that still wont fix being able to hit the things.

TL;DR - Fix their hitboxes first.

[Ultimax]

The True Space Pope, on 20 January 2015 - 07:57 PM, said:

Lights are supposed to die unless they outnumber the enemy by a factor of at least four, didn't you know that? It is a cruel twist of fate, that has allowed the almighty Atlas to have it's paint scratched by the Light Mech piloting proletariat.

After all, it is a known fact that gamers enjoys being cannon-fodder in a games.

Sidebar: The Space Pope does not seriously believe in this theory and is merely trying to create a satirical post.

I wish they would all just save us the hassle of having to move from our favorite rock to hump, and simply die right at the spawn in to the match.

[Impossible Wasabi]

Indeed, it would perhaps be a good idea to start lights with 95% damage to make sure that they can be quickly dispatched by even the newest of Fatlas pilots.

Edited by The True Space Pope, 20 January 2015 - 08:43 PM.

[Insects]

The True Space Pope, on 20 January 2015 - 08:41 PM, said:

Indeed, it would perhaps be a good idea to start lights with 95% damage to make sure that they can be quickly dispatched by even the newest of Fatlas pilots.

No, yesterday I was legged and Armless and all orange insides in an Anansi spider and still managed to kill a fatlas which upon discovering its LRM couldnt get me ran face first into a wall, got stuck there while I pumped SRM into it then ran in circles out in the open when teammates LRM's found the lock.

Lights are clearly OP even when legged and 10% health. There needs to be a consumable item "bugspray" which can be deployed without targeting and instantly kills all annoying light scum within 200m radius.

[Kjudoon]

I just want hits to register on those like they do on heavier mechs. When you shoot it, the damage is applied. We had this problem with the Spider, and now, the Firestarter. The Spider is still bad, but not AS bad.

[Ultimax]

Kjudoon, on 21 January 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

I just want hits to register on those like they do on heavier mechs. When you shoot it, the damage is applied. We had this problem with the Spider, and now, the Firestarter. The Spider is still bad, but not AS bad.

My unit did 4v4 mixed lights (FS9, Jenner's & Huggins and even a spider and commando at one poinr) and there was no one at all who had issues with registering any damage on any target.

That includes the Atlas pilot we used as objective (one team had to keep him alive but he could fire and move normally).

I think this thread derives mostly from hitreg and aim issues and not hitboxes.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 21 January 2015 - 01:00 PM.

[operatorZ]

Adiuvo, on 20 January 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

It depends on what you define as 'out of our hands.' I know multiple people with 2.0+ W/L in solo queue, and a few with 3+.

and the chassis these brave heroes pilot....firestarters, spider etc. you get the picture.

and no....in a team based format with matchmaker your W/L % does not correlate to "skill" at 1:1 ratio. Certainly those with W/L % above 1 or 2 are skilled ...the inverse is not true.

The way to get a W/L % higher than average? simple..... start an alt account and de facto remove all the learning curve from your W/L%...

It takes quite a few games to learn to be good at this game, most people W/L% have suffered because of this.

In WOT there was endless forum bragging about W/L% I hope we don't start that here.....it so juvenile.(In WOT you could see peoples W/L%...PLEASE PGI don't do this!!!!)

IMO...damage is a far superior metric to W/L% on skill...because its actually measuring YOUR actions as opposed to the action or inaction of 11 other people. (yes, yes I know what people say next "damage in the wrong place and time doesn't help your team win blah blah blah" I am willing to bet that even with this being taken into account damage still out ways W/L% as a metric of skill...seems obvious to me.

the next thing people say is "well comparing damage between a light and assault doesn't work because of the difference in firepower"

this is true to an extent bit it only describes the minority of situations NOT the majority...no matter the mech you still have to drive it, position, shoot, use cover, and stay alive long enough to get damage regardless of mech class....all these things take skill...YOUR skill. (weight it by class if you want)

Having a game against new players who don't know how to play, who you then stomp isn't a measure of single player skill, even if its a win.

Being a unit or team who coordinate via comms or practice and beat down unorganized pugs isn't a measure of single player skill either, even if its a win.

There are more situations where W/L% can be distorted by actions or situations not related to YOUR personnel skill level; then there are situations where having high damage isn't a direct correlation to skill.




POST DISCLAIMER: This post is not meant to offend anybody...please don't take it that way...its just opinion and is not directed at any one player or group.

[Lily from animove]

operatorZ, on 21 January 2015 - 01:34 PM, said:

and the chassis these brave heroes pilot....firestarters, spider etc. you get the picture.

and no....in a team based format with matchmaker your W/L % does not correlate to "skill" at 1:1 ratio. Certainly those with W/L % above 1 or 2 are skilled ...the inverse is not true.

The way to get a W/L % higher than average? simple..... start an alt account and de facto remove all the learning curve from your W/L%...

It takes quite a few games to learn to be good at this game, most people W/L% have suffered because of this.

In WOT there was endless forum bragging about W/L% I hope we don't start that here.....it so juvenile.(In WOT you could see peoples W/L%...PLEASE PGI don't do this!!!!)

IMO...damage is a far superior metric to W/L% on skill...because its actually measuring YOUR actions as opposed to the action or inaction of 11 other people. (yes, yes I know what people say next "damage in the wrong place and time doesn't help your team win blah blah blah" I am willing to bet that even with this being taken into account damage still out ways W/L% as a metric of skill...seems obvious to me.

the next thing people say is "well comparing damage between a light and assault doesn't work because of the difference in firepower"

this is true to an extent bit it only describes the minority of situations NOT the majority...no matter the mech you still have to drive it, position, shoot, use cover, and stay alive long enough to get damage regardless of mech class....all these things take skill...YOUR skill. (weight it by class if you want)

Having a game against new players who don't know how to play, who you then stomp isn't a measure of single player skill, even if its a win.

Being a unit or team who coordinate via comms or practice and beat down unorganized pugs isn't a measure of single player skill either, even if its a win.

There are more situations where W/L% can be distorted by actions or situations not related to YOUR personnel skill level; then there are situations where having high damage isn't a direct correlation to skill.




POST DISCLAIMER: This post is not meant to offend anybody...please don't take it that way...its just opinion and is not directed at any one player or group.

maybe the matchscore should be taken into account? but then, the question with dmg and matchscore: what if you play with your goup and plax the support mech whcih is not doing dmg or racking scoreS? (think of 3 AMS , narc, tag and ecm cute fox.

[operatorZ]

Lily from animove, on 21 January 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

maybe the matchscore should be taken into account? but then, the question with dmg and matchscore: what if you play with your goup and plax the support mech whcih is not doing dmg or racking scoreS? (think of 3 AMS , narc, tag and ecm cute fox.

Good point. I just don't understand the match score system enough to discuss whether its a good measure of skill or not. Does in unfairly weight some contributions as compared to others? Idk. But yes damage is not the end all of end all of personnel skill; my point is that its better than W/L%.