465 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

FupDup, on 21 January 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

I'd honestly prefer the slower Ravens (and other slow lights) to have the first priority for more hardpoint inflation. Particularly ones that are shaped like waste receptacles....

That's not my point.

My point is that Mechs with more than 4-5 hardpoints are going to be fielded more often. They are more fun, effective, and allow a greater total-variety of buildouts. They are "better"

if you take any Mech with few hardpoints and give them more, then they will become automatically "better."

Give the rest of our Lights enough hardpoints to be combat-proficient, and we'll stop complaining about FIreStarters.

_________________________

One more example - What would happen if they released a couple Commando variants with the same number of available hardpoints as FireStarters... Would those variants of Commando be wielded more frequently than the other kinds that can mount only 4 weapons?

Same maneuverability, same engine caps... just double the hardpoints. Would THOSE Commandos be "better" than the normal ones we have now that are limited to 4 weapons each?

Edited by Prosperity Park, 21 January 2015 - 10:21 PM.

[Graugger]

Of course if they got rid of ghost heat and imported ghost cooldown >.<

Go ahead and fire all 8 of those medium lasers, I'll see you around in like 20 seconds cause your engine can't output enough power.

[FupDup]

Prosperity Park, on 21 January 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

That's not my point.

My point is that Mechs with more than 4-5 hardpoints are going to be fielded more often. They are more fun, effective, and allow a greater total-variety of buildouts. They are "better"

if you take any Mech with few hardpoints and give them more, then they will become automatically "better."

Give the rest of our Lights enough hardpoints to be combat-proficient, and we'll stop complaining about FIreStarters.

_________________________

One more example - What would happen if they released a couple Commando variants with the same number of available hardpoints as FireStarters... Would those variants of Commando be wielded more frequently than the other kinds that can mount only 4 weapons?

Same maneuverability, same engine caps... just double the hardpoints. Would THOSE Commandos be "better" than the normal ones we have now that are limited to 4 weapons each?

Yes, assuming that all other factors remain equal, the mech with more hardpoints will usually be more advantageous. That's a no-brainer.

My own point is just that I think certain really sub-par lights could use inflation more than the Tier 2-3 ones (i.e. Jenners are still mostly good, just a bit outclassed by Firestarters since they got quirks). The slower ones in particular often get the "worst of both worlds" between mediums and lights, with both of their weaknesses and the strengths of neither.


As for Commandos, their role was to be a bit of a "striker" and to carry abnormal firepower for a 25 tonner, so in their case it actually would make sense to inflate them an extra hardpoint or two.

Edited by FupDup, 21 January 2015 - 10:38 PM.

[Impossible Wasabi]

Prosperity Park, on 21 January 2015 - 09:55 PM, said:

Mind-Blowing Suggestion

Instead of making the FireStarters worse... how about we give the other Light Mechs something like 8 weapon hardpoints, and see how bad-ass the Firestarters wind up being in comparison after that?

You would then see many more other light mechs used, at least by most decent light mech pilots.

[Y E O N N E]

An LCT with eight small lasers?

Wow.

That even leaves enough tonnage for two extra heat-sinks.

[Weeny Machine]

AEgg, on 18 January 2015 - 09:12 AM, said:

The light queue is consistently below 10%. If anything, they need to get better just to convince more people to actually play them. I'm not saying that lights are underpowered right now (I don't think they are). But if they were a bit overpowered at least then people would use them. Giving increased rewards for playing lights would be a better way to fix that, but regardless if lights were hugely overpowered, even if it was only the best ones, you'd think more people would actually use the things.

I think so, too. You need to work your aßß off in a light to get the rewards you get in a heavy. Sure, sometimes a PUG leaves a fatty behind, though, and you can exploit that...*evil grin*

Edited by Bush Hopper, 22 January 2015 - 02:20 AM.

[Disapirro]

What the OP has observed is that the FS is a decent ride vs. most other lights. However, as has been said in various ways by other posters throughout this thread, he fails to observe that it is a big fish in a little pond. Lights need a buff if anything, and specifically to be even more maneuverable and a boost to their JJ's.

[AlmightyAeng]

Prosperity Park, on 21 January 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

That's not my point.

My point is that Mechs with more than 4-5 energy hardpoints are going to be fielded more often.

FTFY. 8 missiles hardpoints doesn't mean you'll see more streakboat lights...the tonnage to make it effective isn't there.

8 ballistic hardpoints means you'll see SOME MG boat lights...but not many, since that whole armor thing renders them useless during the first part of the game.

8 energy hardpoints though? Where you throw on weapons with no ammo cost and only .5 to 1 ton each? Yeah...THAT is where it's at.

Throw those energy hardpoints on a light mech with borked hitboxes and of COURSE it's the most popular light.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 22 January 2015 - 10:33 AM.

[Murphy7]

Ghost Badger, on 22 January 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

FTFY. 8 missiles hardpoints doesn't mean you'll see more streakboat lights...the tonnage to make it effective isn't there.

8 ballistic hardpoints means you'll see SOME MG boat lights...but not many, since that whole armor thing renders them useless during the first part of the game.

8 energy hardpoints though? Where you throw on weapons with no ammo cost and only .5 to 1 ton each? Yeah...THAT is where it's at.

Throw those energy hardpoints on a light mech with borked hitboxes and of COURSE it's the most popular light.

There is much to what you say, though if we are talking borked hit boxes, there are mechs I would prefer to run more often and don't because of awful hitboxes.

Immediate case in point - Jenner - in most respects I feel it would outfight Firestarters if not for the fact that all incoming fire hits the CT all the time.

Raven legs are meatier (catch more fire) than they appear (space near the legs counts as legs with these guys)

I find it hard to get torso concentration on the firstarters, but their legs and arms are as easy to get at as any other light excepting Spiders. Spiders have innate Shadow Mechwarrior skill.

[Jimmy Page]

I wish i was recording this morning. I put a full alpha strike (Atlas) into the CT of a shut down, smoking firestarter. The little bugger powered up and ran off. It's like the Spider was about 9 months ago.

Edited by Jimmy Page, 23 January 2015 - 07:24 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Jimmy Page, on 23 January 2015 - 07:23 AM, said:

I wish i was recording this morning. I put a full alpha strike (Atlas) into the CT of a shut down, smoking firestarter. The little bugger powered up and ran off. It's like the Spider was about 9 months ago.

So Jenner/Spider.Raven crazy. Been happening for years now. That ain't a Firestarter only thing. Just a fire starter now.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

i spectated a king crab firing 2 times double gauss at the back of a firestarter,it just shrug it off and ran away lol

Edited by Cookiemonter669, 23 January 2015 - 08:05 AM.

[Tiger Dad]

I've had the same experience with shooting at Spiders and Firestarters. It was standing still and my Direwhale pumped multiple shots of uac10, lbx10, med lasers into it. It ran off yellow. Frustrating to say the least. But I can't complain, I run my stable of Firestarters a lot and if I've had that experience, I'm sure a lot of people have had it shooting at me.
I've found that the universe is adjusting slightly. I've seen a lot more lasers (which seem to hit my lights better) and A LOT A LOT A LOT more srms, streak srms, and srms+A being boated. They seem to be the flavor of the month with crows and dogs and even some catapults. And the LURMS, OMG, the LURMS wreck you too if you aren't careful. I can tell you the lights are not indestructible as I've had many games I've had >50 damage.
But I can say, the fun I have running around in them equates to the fun I have with the amount of damage and pain I inflict with my assaults. Now, if there's a thing I like to nerf, it's them damn centurions, those guys seem indestructible to me. And I guess maybe shadowhawks (cause they are similiar). But I have them but they seem less durable. I get a shock of fear in me when I see thos guys running at me with all that pain in the torsos and I can't seem to take em down, even in my Assault.

Edited by Tiger Dad, 23 January 2015 - 09:13 AM.

[Bobdolemite]

Im not sold on the "firestarter has hitbox issues" rigmarole. I personally have seen it go both ways (as both pilot and spectator) FS can be annihilated instantly just like any other mech, there are other times when they seem to dance around larger mechs and take little damage.

As dubious as I am about the whole thing I do think it would be a good idea for PGI to do some focused testing on it to make sure (in the very least to shut people up)

I am however WHOLLY AGAINSY NERFING IT IN ANY WAY (my god people your answer is nerf for absolutely everything) How can you nerf something when you don't even know what / if anything is wrong with it.

Part of what makes the FS so devastating is the hardpoints / mobility / speed mix. Remember when small lasers and pulse's were a joke that everyone laughed at? Well the FS was the punchline (though it was along time coming) good damage, good heat index, great speed, little survivability. That is the hallmark of the light, but the FS slides the spectrum even more by making it an EXTREME close range light (which is very dangerous) it tickles me that people are so angry over something that has to crawl into your ****** in order to be effective.

[Ultimax]

Jimmy Page, on 23 January 2015 - 07:23 AM, said:

I wish i was recording this morning. I put a full alpha strike (Atlas) into the CT of a shut down, smoking firestarter. The little bugger powered up and ran off. It's like the Spider was about 9 months ago.

I wish I was recording last night.

An enemy Firestarter was shooting my team's Firestarter and shut down.

I CT cored the enemy FS9 from just about fresh to dead at 400m with 6x CERMLAS.


I have done this a number of times to careless lights (FS9s included), so I'm still waiting for the person who puts up real video evidence for the community to scrutinize.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 23 January 2015 - 09:58 AM.

[ExplodedZombie]

The pulse firestarters absolutely are overdone. Not by a lot, but definitely need to be brought down slightly. That being said, lights in general need to be brought up (and the damned Ember!)

[topgun505]

There's a difference between good and OP.

For the SPL build look at the stats. With lv 5 cooldown module you can do 64 damage IN JUST UNDER 2.5 SECONDS for a mere 32 heat.

A Jenner F takes a full second longer, does 60 damage by comparison, for 48 heat.

I think somewhere between these two sets of stats is the line between reasonable and over the top.

I wouldn't be surprised if the SPL gets a cooldown increase, a damage decrease, a heat increase and/or a ghost heat addition.

[Sembrin]

I'd be happy if they just fixed the damn hitboxes or hit reg or whatever. I'm tired of going up against these things and unloading endless amount of AC5 shells (and MLas, but I realize lasers smear damage) and not killing 'em. At some point it just becomes a joke.

[Ultimax]

topgun505, on 23 January 2015 - 11:39 AM, said:

There's a difference between good and OP.

For the SPL build look at the stats. With lv 5 cooldown module you can do 64 damage IN JUST UNDER 2.5 SECONDS for a mere 32 heat.

A Jenner F takes a full second longer, does 60 damage by comparison, for 48 heat.

The Jenner F has an optimal range of 270m, it has high weapon mounts and can poke over hills. It does half damage at 405m

The FS9-A has an optimal range of 148m, it has low weapon mounts and must expose all of it's upper torso. It does half damage at 222m.




These are all of it's quirks, these are the quirks people are losing their minds over.



SMALL PULSE LASER RANGE: 7.50% (Total 15%)
ENERGY RANGE: 7.50%
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -10.00%



Woopdie freaking do.

[Augustus Martelus II]

Most say i did splat many times a lot of srms on a Firestarter (sure i finish them off) vs a jenner and i must say Firestarter seem more durable vs a jenner.....broken hitboxs? :/