31 replies to this topic

[Alexander Steel]

Quote

There is NO reason for a unit to be loyal to one side and every reason to switch.

Why does there need to be a reason to stick with one faction? I mean that's like somebody complaining that there is no reason or bonus to only playing one character when you play Street Fighter, while people who play multiple characters have every reason to because they get to see multiple endings. Where is the love for the Ryu Loyalist?!?!

[Lord Ikka]

Alexander Steel, on 18 January 2015 - 11:44 PM, said:

Why does there need to be a reason to stick with one faction? I mean that's like somebody complaining that there is no reason or bonus to only playing one character when you play Street Fighter, while people who play multiple characters have every reason to because they get to see multiple endings. Where is the love for the Ryu Loyalist?!?!

I'm just going to chime in quickly.

Unlike Street Fighter, MWO's CW requires some players to have faction loyalty so that losing/winning planets matter. Otherwise it is just another game mode like Skirmish or Conquest, rather than an evolving system. Doesn't mean that all players should be hard-locked into a faction, but encouraging those that do choose to be permanently aligned should also be rewarded. Without faction loyalists CW doesn't matter- they are the ones that really care about the map.

[Pat Kell]

I suspect that as time goes on, PGI will put various rewards and punishments attached to each faction for both staying and leaving and they will likely evolve over time. For example, if you choose a permanent contract, you may get cbill bonuses in matchs or access to cheaper mechs from that factions lore based mechs etc. when.if you decide to change factions they could put some hefty fines on you or some other various way to encourage staying or at the very least make people think twice about hop scotching every where. ultimately though it doesn't matter to me, I just want to play the game and right now, not very many seem to be playing. Hopefully people are just trying to grind out the event and will be back Monday. Or hopefully they will be back Tuesday to check out the patch. Either way, lets play CW guys, complain if you need to but just play. first new thing we have gotten in a long time and we're not taking advantage of it.

[Kjudoon]

Too many players around here that think everything that slows down buttonmashing dakka is worthless flavor text to be clicked through without listening because their goal ends with shoot EVERYTHING.

[Alexander Steel]

Quote

MWO's CW requires some players to have faction loyalty so that losing/winning planets matter.

I disagree. Making taking planets mean more than just shifting colors on a map will make losing/winning planets matter. I'm not exactly sure where the idea that people have to be "rewarded" for every choice they make in a game that they don't have to make.

That said, just from watching how CW has worked so far, I really haven't noticed any real difference between how hard Mercs fights vs how hard faction "loyalists" fight.

Edited by Alexander Steel, 19 January 2015 - 04:11 AM.

[Lord Ikka]

I should have begun that with "For now". I do agree having planets matter more (discounts, bonuses, something) will add more value than just color/RP value.

I don't think rewarding loyalists for staying loyal is a bad thing, I think it would help to create a thriving CW scene where loyalists and mercs both have value and gain rewards for their choices.

Edited by Lord Ikka, 19 January 2015 - 04:33 AM.

[Dracol]

The higher loyalty bonus still need to some else to make them really worthwhile. Someone on Reddit started a thread asking who, if anyone, has gotten the highest, lvl 20 rank in on of the factions. With 40 days of CW complete, people how have gone with a permanent faction have said they're around rank 10 - 12.

40 days, with max bonus, to get halfway to the max rank..... Mercs who flip factions after 1 or 2 week contracts are not going to be achieving those high ranks anytime soon.

If those high ranking loyalty bonus get really nifty rewards, that would IMHO really provide an incentive for a player to stick with a faction for a long term. Won't make everyone stay with one faction, but would help increase it the loyalist (or at least long term) numbers.

Edited by Dracol, 19 January 2015 - 05:30 AM.

[Alexander Steel]

They could also include 20 + rewards. Not so much new levels, but make loyalty like a currency that you can only spend once you hit a certain level. Basically the idea being that everybody can get to the rewards, just if you flip a great deal it'll take much longer. A way to balance somebody who is working for 9 factions with somebody who is working for only 1.

[Scoops Kerensky]

Personally it irks me a little that so much of CW's map is basically at the whims of the 4-5 heads of the biggest merc units, but I can't think of a solution that wouldn't rob people of player agency, and both mercs and loyalists are all equal in terms of importance to the game as players.

As others have said, there's no gameplay reason not to continuously switch contracts if you want to maximize your rewards, so I think it's important that there be more gameplay incentives for people to sign permanent contracts and tie themselves to a faction so that each faction can have a 'base level' playerbase. Right now the playerbase is so fluid that PGI is usually stuck playing catch-up with reward contracts scaling up. I know several merc groups left FRR specifically to juke up the rewards for signing on with FRR and then signed right back in once the bonuses were added.

I don't say that to go, "oh they're abusing the system!" But rather as an example of how PGI's stat tracking isn't reflecting the reality of CW. It's hard to know what the 'real' playerbase of any particular faction is at the moment, and I worry that'll have a negative impact on CW as a whole down the road and reinforces the need to incentivize people to stick with factions for long periods of time beyond personal loyalty.

[Ax2Grind]

Socop, on 19 January 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

Personally it irks me a little that so much of CW's map is basically at the whims of the 4-5 heads of the biggest merc units, but I can't think of a solution that wouldn't rob people of player agency, and both mercs and loyalists are all equal in terms of importance to the game as players.

As others have said, there's no gameplay reason not to continuously switch contracts if you want to maximize your rewards, so I think it's important that there be more gameplay incentives for people to sign permanent contracts and tie themselves to a faction so that each faction can have a 'base level' playerbase. Right now the playerbase is so fluid that PGI is usually stuck playing catch-up with reward contracts scaling up. I know several merc groups left FRR specifically to juke up the rewards for signing on with FRR and then signed right back in once the bonuses were added.

I don't say that to go, "oh they're abusing the system!" But rather as an example of how PGI's stat tracking isn't reflecting the reality of CW. It's hard to know what the 'real' playerbase of any particular faction is at the moment, and I worry that'll have a negative impact on CW as a whole down the road and reinforces the need to incentivize people to stick with factions for long periods of time beyond personal loyalty.

With all due respect, since we all have as much ability to affect the map I think the basis of your post is incorrect. No one person or group has a choice that the others do not have. We all get to make the same choices. I would say that if a few groups are having the most impact, it is because of the dedication, focus, teamwork, population, and skill of those groups. Once again, attributes all of us can make choices about. Whether the length of the contract they sign is 1 week or Forever, this will always be the case.

[Scoops Kerensky]

Ax2Grind, on 19 January 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

With all due respect, since we all have as much ability to affect the map I think the basis of your post is incorrect. No one person or group has a choice that the others do not have. We all get to make the same choices. I would say that if a few groups are having the most impact, it is because of the dedication, focus, teamwork, population, and skill of those groups. Once again, attributes all of us can make choices about. Whether the length of the contract they sign is 1 week or Forever, this will always be the case.

For sure, and I don't mean to discount the organizational headaches or dedication the bigger groups have or mean to imply that they somehow haven't earned what they've got. My broader point was that from a gameplay perspective, you get more rewards for switching factions right now and unlocking all of their loyalty rewards, as well as access to both clan and IS mechs.

I think it'd be nicer if there was a flip side to that, not to punish units for switching contracts, but gameplay incentives for people to stay long-term with one faction so that population can level out among the factions and its easier to understand where each faction stands before dedicated mercenary groups are thrown into the mix.

EDIT: re-reading your post I think I get your point a bit more. I'm coming more from the perspective that despite the game treating all players at mercs, there's a not insignificant amount of the playerbase that identifies with one faction over another, and sets their unit to permanent contract status. There's no need to punish people who want to be mercenaries, but there seems to be enough interest in the population in general for 'loyalist' groups as well a permanent contract option, which while not definitive evidence lends support to the idea that PGI is trying to offer a way for people to act on that.

That seems like a good idea to me, and I hope they offer incentives for more people to try it.

Edited by Socop, 19 January 2015 - 02:44 PM.

[Ax2Grind]

Indeed...I was hoping there would a real "loyalist" option for folks to choose from, with it's own set of rewards. Currently there is none...everyone is a Merc no matter the contract you choose. The rest is just Roleplaying. Oddly enough the LP rewards are hardly good merc rewards...most of them instead look like what I would call "Loyalist" rewards. So we have Loyalist Rewards in place, and Merc Contracts in place. No wonder it's rubbing people the wrong way.

Edit: Actually the rewards are not in place...we have a place holder for them. Maybe once they activate folks may calm down about some of this since the "loyalists" have a far greater amount of LP bonus. Still, I would have preferred completely different rewards for the various role's you could play in CW...Merc, Loyalists, Pirate?!? You know you want an eye patch on your mech.

Edited by Ax2Grind, 19 January 2015 - 03:05 PM.