70 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

First don't blame the team at all, yes they are sometimes the issue, but usually you are grouped with people of your kind, except a few occosions.

The true dealbreakers why suddenly people think the "challange" is the issue.

YOU NEED A KILL.

And for some reasons this seems to trigger some weird behavior in peoples mind.

1. People start to rush into the battle faster. anmd they leave the assauls behind. Yes this happens a few times in some matches, but this increased a LOT during the challange.

and the effect? you lose dmg at the first contact horribly, or even worse, the opponent team smokes your assaults in 2 minutes after the start. Well done, you tried to got for the kill and failed to win the match.

2. I need kills!!!
what also increased a LOT is the way people try to go for a kill. Situation is as usual, peeka boo.
Suddenly a cherry red torso appears and retreats. Some kill greedy carrions follow it, and DANG - around the next corner are 6 mechs shredding them by being outnumbered. Under normal circumstances people don't do this, but the need for kills triggers that stupid behavior, and again a kill is gone and very likely the entire match.

3.lrms the open and you.
it happens here and there that people die by lrms. but the constant greed for kills is so massive that people expose themselves a lot more, checking via locking who is wounded, and so they use cover a lot less and eat laods of lrms more than usal.

4. sticking together.
triggered by the same reason as number 2 similar effect.

5. try to kill efficiently.
do not hold damage back when you see a non cored heavy damaged opponent. Some people wait for the teammates to core them, and then trying to be the last shot. This is again a behavior that can lead to losses. Because when you allow to fart out another 50 or even 80+ alpha for your opponent this can change matches.

Advice:
Stop going for kills in first place. Winning is also a condition, going rambomode to make a kill and 300dmg then dying and hoping the team does the rest is not how it works.

Go for the win, because killing 12 mechs is most often the win trigger and then your chance to get a kill also increases.

Stop using support and second line mechs, bring something that can kill (and no lrm's don't count, they are unreliable). The heavy queue increased in the event and the Usual mechs you may use work a lot less efficient.

Stop complaining and go on, especially leave the match ofter you died and instant try again, don't waste time by watching the match if you died early. But don't rush for a kill and die to make a new match, this is very likely not the way to achieve a win for your team. Especially not when you are one of the better guys amongst your team.

No. 4, 5 and 2 can be ignored if you have a BIG advantage in the battle but being only 3 mechs advanced in the killcounter is not a big advantage. Especially not when its 0 3

and further, keep calm, the more you get upset the morelikely will stuff fail.

Edited by Lily from animove, 18 January 2015 - 10:02 AM.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Call it bad form on my part, but it doesnt help that so many people are absolutely terrible at this game. Like unreasonably terrible. Getting the kill is easy, getting the assist is even easier. Winning while Pugging is agony. People play like cowards.

[Lily from animove]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 January 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

Call it bad form on my part, but it doesnt help that so many people are absolutely terrible at this game. Like unreasonably terrible. Getting the kill is easy, getting the assist is even easier. Winning while Pugging is agony. People play like cowards.

No its not, I pugged all day as well, but the changed behavior of some people make them lose more than often, also you can make the matches in the groupqueue as well.
generally on sundays the cauals of the casuals seem to be online, I experince a lot more people then doing basic mistakes. but overall it's not a special PUG issue. People just brainless go for one of the goals, fogetting that a kill is easier to get than a win.

and yes, there are alos a lot people not as good as we more dedicated elitegamers, yet those people in the pugs often get distributed quite equally. So both sides do have these problems.

Edited by Lily from animove, 18 January 2015 - 09:56 AM.

[Joshua Rael]

@
Lily from animove

You just described all the problems people have been having with their teams, yet you say not to blame the teams at all. People are doing stupid things. It is all the more annoying in this tournament because you NEED that win.
I DO blame people when they don't think. I DO blame people for running in front of me and taking an alpha to the back to try and get that kill. I DO blame teammates for failing to get more than 200 damage in an assault because they tried to play "peek-a-boo".
When I do stupid things I blame myself and try not to do it again. When others do stupid things I blame them and tell them not to do it again.

[Deathlike]

Being in a competent group mitigates this terrible process of wondering why your teammates have no clue at times.

The game honestly doesn't teach you "how" to work as a team, despite having the appropriate mantra of "teamwork is OP".

Edited by Deathlike, 18 January 2015 - 10:13 AM.

[occusoj]

Quote

First don't blame the team at all, yes they are sometimes the issue, but usually you are grouped with people of your kind, except a few occosions.

Just to clarify: Im supposed to kill at least half the enemy team every match?
Oh no, wait. That cant be. Because when I actually did so they called me a bad killstealer.

So, if MM groups me up with people of my kind, why didnt we win that match from earlier today I was in?

Reason for the loss: Most of my team ran into the open water, without ECM and cover. There they got frightened of damage and went into panic mode.
Now tell me how this is my fault? I played my role as ranged support the best I could. It didnt suffice and I have no problem to admit that Im by far not a good enought player to carry that.

How come I still out-damaged everyone and out-killed all others combined in a second-line support mech when thats not what we should play?

Or what about the last match? WTF IS THIS?

My whole team scattered around the map and then drizzled into the enemy deathball one by one. This is not "individual flanking", its plain stupid. I couldnt "stick to a group" because there was none. I went with the other assaults but even they formed a conga-line of suicide that danced right into the grinder.

[Lily from animove]

Joshua Rael, on 18 January 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

@
Lily from animove

You just described all the problems people have been having with their teams, yet you say not to blame the teams at all. People are doing stupid things. It is all the more annoying in this tournament because you NEED that win.
I DO blame people when they don't think. I DO blame people for running in front of me and taking an alpha to the back to try and get that kill. I DO blame teammates for failing to get more than 200 damage in an assault because they tried to play "peek-a-boo".
When I do stupid things I blame myself and try not to do it again. When others do stupid things I blame them and tell them not to do it again.

WRONG,
MANY people are ONE TEAM, and EVERYONE of them needs the WIN not just ONE guy. But this is what people lost in their mind when the challange started, and so they act selfish and struggle to achieve the COMMON goal they ALL NEED.

blaming people does not help, better give them the advice how to do better. But blaming them will NOT make you achieve the goal. And will not make them perform better in the next match. And then you are porbably the guy who gets them AGAIN.

And its not the assaults fault when he dies because the team suddenly is not helping him in the push, or locking him or whatever.
I watched what people did and compared it to what it is usually outside the tournament, and the above points heavily increased and were the major issue why most matches failed. While outside the events we just had many normal matches that just failed by other reasons, being outgunned, push didn't worked, whatever. But changed behavior is very visible, just watch it. And if you see your guys starting to do stuff wrong, better try writing them how to do it different or try to do whatever stupid they do. sometimes when everyone sticks to the same stupid tactic it has a bigger chance to cucceed than 4 groups trying their own tactics (or even woerse 12 ppls 12 tactics)

occusoj, on 18 January 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

Just to clarify: Im supposed to kill at least half the enemy team every match?
Oh no, wait. That cant be. Because when I actually did so they called me a bad killstealer.

So, if MM groups me up with people of my kind, why didnt we win that match from earlier today I was in?

Reason for the loss: Most of my team ran into the open water, without ECM and cover. There they got frightened of damage and went into panic mode.
Now tell me how this is my fault? I played my role as ranged support the best I could. It didnt suffice and I have no problem to admit that Im by far not a good enought player to carry that.

How come I still out-damaged everyone and out-killed all others combined in a second-line support mech when thats not what we should play?

Or what about the last match? WTF IS THIS?

My whole team scattered around the map and then drizzled into the enemy deathball one by one. This is not "individual flanking", its plain stupid. I couldnt "stick to a group" because there was none. I went with the other assaults but even they formed a conga-line of suicide that danced right into the grinder.

yes these matches happen, even outside the tournament.
further I said some, not all people are part of the issue.
yet think ybout it yourself, what if you would not had brought a second line mec? what if you brought a first liner one man show one? the secnd screen was 12 0 still your team made quite a lot damage, so your entire team stuggled to kill, but you are not that far away from the opponents teams dmg. in a non secodn liner, you would probably have turned that entire match. While this may sound hard to believe, matches very often especially soem like that second you posted, have some domino effect. And these matches can entirely look different depending on which side has the first loss.

and at the beginning of the match, just write stick together. It helps in many cases to remind people, or advice some probably totally new players how the game works. yes does not work always, but I had maybe within all 58 matches only 5 where people really spread out to a idiotic degree.

and even the most plainless noob, grants at least some cannonfodder tanking abilities when he get shot next to your group granting it the ability to fire back, instead of dying lonely on the other side of the map.

And the majority of your matches would probably not look like that above if you are a good player.

Edited by Lily from animove, 18 January 2015 - 10:37 AM.

[occusoj]

Quote

yet think ybout it yourself, what if you would not had brought a second line mec? what if you brought a first liner one man show one?

I would have gotten one or two kills more, wouldnt have saved the match. The enemy team was positioned and grouped much better. Our guys lost it once damage started to flow in.

Quote

the secnd screen was 12 0 still your team made quite a lot ddamage, so your entire team stuggled to kill, but you are not that far away from the opponents teams dmg. in a non secodn liner, you would probably have turned that entire match.

My team did not do "quite a lot damage". Look at the sub 200 gargles and dire. Or the mediums.

Nothing would have turned that match, no matter if WubShee, Dire or Crab. My team was scattered all over and wasted themselfs one by one onto the enemy deathball. Didnt even provide significant meat-shielding. A single player cant turn that. Even a decent lance has a hard time doing so. It soon was about 8-0 and my fellow assaults started to conga-suicide. There was no domino. It was mechs solo-jumping into the grinder.
Of course I could have done better, 400 dmg and 1 kill were entirely within reach but thats it. Maybe 2/500 with a meta-whale. Doesnt suffice to turn it.

Quote

and at the ebginnign of the match, just write stick together.

I did it for some time. Noticed no difference and gave up. Sometimes I write things like "dont chase the light" if half my team does so but they either ignore it or tell me how this is the way they play. Meh.

Quote

And the majority of your amtches would probably not look like that above if you are a good player.

I try to get better but maybe Im just not good enought for this game.

Sometimes though, there are great matches. Rare but they happen. The one I played before making this post for example.
All I want is matches like this one, no matter if they end 12-8 or 8-12. Reasonably close until the end with some decent teammates that do their job well.

[Joshua Rael]

Thats right occusoj we just suck. Lily says it so it must be true. lol

[mogs01gt]

I went the opposite direction. I do not have any issues getting kills. My issues is winning. So I played mechs with high win percentages. It didnt take much time once I figured out the two mechs to use. LoL both were LRM based .

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Having completed this challenge, the largest factor was time of day and server population. I was really frustrated Friday evening. However when I logged in Saturday morning, and the Elo team composition was more balanced things went much better.
(not sure what is up with formating, simple table but it likes a half page of space no matter what I do)

Day	Wins (qualified)	Wins (not qualified)	Losses (with K+A)	Losses (stomp)
Friday	12	2	8	14
Saturday	18	1	6	5

Thing I did to improve my chances.
1. Do not rush to get a kill. If you charge in guns blazing you aren't helping your team, wait for your moment, when your team gets a good lead (2-4 mechs depending on time) then you can take more risks.

2. Direct fire weapons (energy/ballistics). I am not sure why so many people like the missile mechs, to me it is a big gamble, you are never sure you can secure a kill. Sure it is safer, and you have less worry about making stupid mistakes, but most of the time you are going to leave a half dead mech hiding until and ally kills it.

3. Play safe (this may only apply to me as I tend to be very aggressive). Once you secure a kill become a support player, at that point in the game securing a victory is more important that seeing the top of the score chart.

4. Do not be afraid to take multiple kills. Yes sharing is nice, but do not endanger yourself or your team be allowing a gimped mech to pot-shot and spot for the enemy. Exceptions can be made when your team has an overwhelming advantage, but you are gambling that the opportunity that you had to kill the firestarter will not end up costing you a victory later.

5. Pay attention. I recently realized that after 3 years of MWO, I didn't know it all. So here are some general MWO tips.
A) your outer HUD will flash red in the direction you are being shot from
B ) your cockpit will strobe when you are targeted, this is a good indicator that there is an enemy scout, or UAV, and a good predictor that missiles are incoming. Unless you are actively engaged, I recommend breaking the lock to identify who has you targeted. (I actually complained about the flashing a couple weeks ago, and now that I know what it is, it has dramatically improved my situational awareness)

Edited by Agent 0 Fortune, 18 January 2015 - 11:39 AM.

[Jman5]

Quote

1. People start to rush into the battle faster. anmd they leave the assauls behind. Yes this happens a few times in some matches, but this increased a LOT during the challange.

and the effect? you lose dmg at the first contact horribly, or even worse, the opponent team smokes your assaults in 2 minutes after the start. Well done, you tried to got for the kill and failed to win the match.

Ok, so I was going to write a big long rant, but I'll just keep it succinct.

If you're an assault player and find yourself getting left behind, here is how you can avoid it.

1. Stop mucking around and pay attention.

2. Switch to, or build a faster mech.

3. Disable Skirmish mode. It's the only game mode with spread out or risky spawn locations. If you want to play TrenchWarrior Online, you should be sticking to Assault Mode. Spawns are close and turrets limit mobility

Assault players that struggle with mobility have options. If they don't want to take them, then that is their problem. Instead of demanding that other players play how you like, these are simple, tangible solutions that you have complete control over. If you believe you are being tossed onto teams that leave you behind too often, take action.

[Zordicron]

Nothing in this challenge is any different then normal day to day play in pug land.

but when you have a goal in mind, and limited time to do it, it increases the annoyance factor when you get ELO'd into a team of jackwagons to balance the score for the match vs the other team, because the time was wasted. During the rest of the week, you just shrug and say "stupid ELO" and hit launch again. but during the challenge, you say "stupid CoD team mates" as you watch them turn around and run from the enemy, camp and get surrounded and cored through the back in short order from the actually mobile enemy, etc.

And some come here and complain, but it is all for naught, because nothing really is different then any other day.

[PFC Carsten]

Eldagore, on 18 January 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

Nothing in this challenge is any different then normal day to day play in pug land.

[...]
And some come here and complain, but it is all for naught, because nothing really is different then any other day.

I was thinking exactly this as well.
In PUGland, that's the way things are. In some matches, no matter how incredibly well you perform, your side won't win.

Maybe people returning from the holy realms of CW/pre-mades did forget the hard, PUGish reality which is: You live and die by the team you're cast into and that is something you cannot choose in PUGland.

[CocoaJin]

I find it convenient that the "blame placers" always accuse guys with a bad game or early death as the "problem", especially since the assumption is that these "blamers" are alive and unable to reliably see how the so called "problems" die. It's easy to forget we've all had bad luck during a match and with all the different players we are teamed with over the course of a game, odds are every few games or so we will run in a descent guy or two on our team having his bad match.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen the actions that result in an early wipe out of a few guys one match, is the gaming turning tactic the next. I can't tell you how many times a route provided the perfect approach to the enemy and another time it results in you getting rolled. The perfect flanking pincer maneuver one match gets berated as a bone head maneuver the next match when it fails.

I find the blame game of the supposed elites of the forum self-serving, ego-thumping screeds...nothing more than a self-fulfilling prophecy due to the amazing power and influence of hind-sight and selective memory.

In these giant arena maps with no comms, the ability to make good use of recon and planning is non-existent in PuGs...the time to engagement is too short. Players have to make a quick choices at the beginning of the game about what they think the enemy is going to do out of a handful of choices and then quickly move into position to best exploit that guess. Players have their favorite places, approaches and tactics...and because the compositions, builds and play styles on a team for each game is so heavily divergent, we are bound to see a myriad of different choices play out by our team mates early on in the game...sometimes that results in some guys breaking off early on, to either crash and burn or pull off the hat trick that saves the match...it's not like Murderball is a gauranteed win either.

This isn't to say people font make bone head choices in game, its not to say there aren't bad players...but we all mostly started off pretty bad ourselves and the best of us screw the pooch on occasion. We have things we can improve on, but the insulting tone that frequent the forums is not beneficial...maybe except for the egos it's stroking.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

I find that most of my games so far this weekend with more than 2 kills have been ones where I'm one of the last alive and have to get a bunch of kills to pull out a win.

Typically I get between 0 and 2 kills in a typical win for this challenge (the 0 ones are super frustrating, especially when I'm pulling ~11 assists and top damage for the team).

I have at least two 5-kill matches so far, and a 7. All were matches that came down to me and one or two allies against several more enemies than we had friendlies (2v5, or 3v7, or whatever). The key is almost always that the rest of the team (the dead players) want a win, so they help with recon (things like calling out damage on the remaining hostiles and whatnot). I know one match specifically would have gone very differently if the team hadn't taken care to point out that a particular Griffin had both legs nearly blown off. It allowed me to pop him in a single pass rather than trading shots in a prolonged fight, which let me get the drop on a cored-out Atlas and banged-up LRM Highlander, which let our team achieve parity of numbers for the final kills (which we came out ahead with).

Sure, it can be frustrating when you don't net a kill, but there's no need to go trigger happy and start shooting friendlies in the back, or worse, take that frustration out on the next team and start deliberately body-blocking and playing to kill steal instead of playing to win. Just drop again and try that little bit harder. Pay more attention to the damage readout on your target information display. And if it gets to the last couple of kills and you're still short, ask in team chat if they'll let you have a go at taking one. You never know, it might work out.

Ultimately, it's a game, and you've got the entire weekend to get the points you need. Calm down and keep playing.

[Ursh]

I'm faring badly because I don't need the mech bay and am therefore free to play however I want, which is generally badly.

[Mawai]

1) If players on both sides are being stupid ... it probably balances out.
2) I won't be completing the challenge because I don't have the time ... not due to how others are playing ... Its probably between 60 and 120 matches to complete the challenge and for me that is too many.
3) IF you want to maximize your chances you need to
(a) drop in mechs that can get kills ... reasonably fast ... good alpha strike ability since you need to do a decent amount in one blow to the critical components to increase the chance of killing it.
( drop in a mech that you are good with and have ideally mastered
(c) Heavies are popular since they have good firepower, good staying power and can be fast (TDR-9S, Jester, most Jagers etc)
4) You need to go for both the kill and the win ... how you balance it is up to you.

[Ultimax]

I got 99 problems but this challenge ain't one.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 18 January 2015 - 01:28 PM.

[DarkMetalBlade]

Ultimatum X, on 18 January 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

I got 99 problems but this challenge ain't one.

I've also managed to complete this challenge myself just recently. What might help is going a bit heavy on the meta-mechs side. For me, that was pretty much the only way this could be complete in any reasonable amount of time.