72 replies to this topic

[Spr1ggan]

LordKnightFandragon, on 19 January 2015 - 12:59 PM, said:

and seriously, just power creeping everything forward is not the way to go.....it really isnt.

It just means when we get like Heavy large lasers they are 30dmg/35 heat, then when we get Railguns, they are going to be 67dmg/35heat, massive CD quirks...and no...

Just tone the TB back and keep balance somewhere around reasonable...

The TB needs to be toned down, not the Awesome buffed, though the Awesome should be buffed somewhat.

I know there were railguns in Mechcommander gold but why can't I find any info on them on sarna?

[Errinovar]

I can see this both ways, I think the Awesome should probably get buffed a bit more in that it was a tier 5 mech before the quirks. I disagree with the notion that it should necessarily be better at boating ERPPCs than any other mech, and particularly on the lore argument; we left the realms of lore long ago. I have seen little real argument that the comparison between the Awesome and the 9s is a balance issue rather than a preference issue in this thread.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I still haven't figured out what the big deal is with T-bolts. They are easy to kill even with the ppc advantage. It's not the mech but the pilot your fighting and whenever you have a dominant meta everyone piles on with them. That gives you practice in finding their weakness and exploiting it. Then when you meet a pilot that can master the meta you have a fighting chance against them.

After a couple of years I have to yawn at the nerf warriors and whatever new threat they complain about. Couple of turns of patches later its something else.

My only ***** has been getting voip into solo to level the field. Now that that is done let the meta boys field whatever the new flavor of the month is. In time they are all cut down to size. You cannot nerf good pilots as they can kill in any mech. Thats my only concern is facing a better pilot and I like that idea. It makes me better each time I do.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Spr1ggan, on 20 January 2015 - 03:35 AM, said:

I know there were railguns in Mechcommander gold but why can't I find any info on them on sarna?

I never did use them. Though the enemy sure did...and yes, they hurt haha. I did use the XPL.....was fun, but the lack of damage...ugh.

Aethon, on 19 January 2015 - 10:53 PM, said:

Railguns were something that Mektek made up for MW4, just like the mech they added and named after the kid that ghosted himself; hopefully, PGI will not do that stuff.

What mech is named after what kid in mektek? there were alot of mechs in mektek....

railguns were derpy...big as ****, slow to fire and not worth the weight and space. I always dropped it out for 2x GRs or 2x UAC10.

[Lightfoot]

Errinovar, on 20 January 2015 - 03:38 AM, said:

I can see this both ways, I think the Awesome should probably get buffed a bit more in that it was a tier 5 mech before the quirks. I disagree with the notion that it should necessarily be better at boating ERPPCs than any other mech, and particularly on the lore argument; we left the realms of lore long ago. I have seen little real argument that the comparison between the Awesome and the 9s is a balance issue rather than a preference issue in this thread.

I know PGI side-steps the Lore a lot, but you have to keep demanding it. A working AWS-9M from balanced ERPPC quirks is not asking much anyway. In my opinion that is what the Quirks are actually for, making poorly performing mechs work correctly in MWO within the context of the Lore of the mech if any exists.

Edited by Lightfoot, 20 January 2015 - 08:41 AM.

[Roadkill]

MauttyKoray, on 19 January 2015 - 10:27 PM, said:

Why is it stupid or closed minded people try to partake in balance discussions?

Why is it that idiots start threads?

Quote

Yes I made a stupid first post, intentionally so for the shock effect at suggesting something stupid and ridiculous. I don't actually want a crazy high quirk for the Awesome, I want the Thunderbolt's quirk re-balanced with the Awesome being what it is in mind.

Ah, so you want both Mechs to suck instead of either a) the current state where only the Awesome sucks, or the state I proposed in which neither Mech would suck.

Sounds like an AWESOME plan.

Quote

As it is the standard PPC Awesome already has -25% heat gen total and can't even keep up with the Thunderbolts -50% ERPPC quirk? On top of that it also has a COOLDOWN quirk, which the Awesome doesn't have for ERPPCs. Right there should tell you something is broken and imbalanced. So what is the issue with a Thunderbolt being balanced to fire 2 ERPPCs with a lower cooldown than the Awesome with 3 at standard cooldown? Because apparently the IS players are a bunch of whining little kids that don't want their shiny toys taken away even though that's exactly what they bitched and moaned to be taken away from Clans, and I'm not even complaining about it being OP against the Clans but imbalanced against a mech whose role it STOLE FROM IT.

Even though I tagged Kurita, I play primarily Clan Mechs. It's a long story. My role-play character started out as Kurita and eventually became a Star Captain in Clan Ghost Bear. But I digress...

So again, your "solution" is to make both Mechs suck simply because the 9S was given the role that you want for the Awesome? Whereas the real solution that the reasonable people in this thread are presenting to you would be to bring the Awesome up to the 9S's level?

I get what you're saying: this role shouldn't belong to the 9S, it should belong to the Awesome.

But the correct answer is not to screw over both Mechs, it's to give the role to the Awesome also. I don't know why PGI felt that the 9S should join the Awesome in the PPC boat role, but I'm not going to argue for taking it away and making the 9S suck because that wouldn't help game balance.

[MauttyKoray]

No, I want the Thunderbolt to not be taking the Awesome's place.

Please tell me again how the Awesome sucks?

[LordKnightFandragon]

MauttyKoray, on 20 January 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:

No, I want the Thunderbolt to not be taking the Awesome's place.

Please tell me again how the Awesome sucks?

Well, from what I can see of it in Smurfy, its got a very small engine, it moves very slow, its energy heavy, very wide.......Hit boxes appear to kinda suck.

But, the Awesome is one IS Mech I kinda wanted to drive at one point until I started reading up on this game and found out the Awesome actually does kinda suck.

[MauttyKoray]

LordKnightFandragon, on 20 January 2015 - 09:40 AM, said:

Well, from what I can see of it in Smurfy, its got a very small engine, it moves very slow, its energy heavy, very wide.......Hit boxes appear to kinda suck.

But, the Awesome is one IS Mech I kinda wanted to drive at one point until I started reading up on this game and found out the Awesome actually does kinda suck.

It didn't until the Thunderboltpocalypse shoving it right back out of the PPC niche it gained during the initial quirkening. Coupled with the quirks given to make the thunderbolt more survivable, the Thunderbolt is now barely more fragile (those Awesome hitboxes and all), faster, and can boat the same armament better. So either the Thunderbolt's quirk needs to be nerfed back down into proper place (max 2 ERPPC sustainability) or the Awesome needs to just be removed from the game and all the CBills used to buy them refunded, as there is no reason this imbalance should stay.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 20 January 2015 - 09:45 AM.

[Aethon]

LordKnightFandragon, on 20 January 2015 - 05:21 AM, said:

What mech is named after what kid in mektek? there were alot of mechs in mektek....

The Tenchi was named after someone on the MekTek forums who hanged himself; I do not remember his name.

[MauttyKoray]

Here's an easy math comparison for those who still don't get it.

Velocity added just because listing all (ER)PPC quirks on related mech.
TDR-9S
+15% ERPPC Velocity
+25% ERPPC Cooldown (12.5% energy) - 3 Seconds
-50% ERPPC Heat Generation (25% energy) - 7.5 Heat

AWS-8Q
+25% PPC Velocity
+25% PPC Range (12.5% energy)
-25% PPC Cooldown (12.5% energy) - 3 Seconds
-25% PPC Heat Generation (12.5% energy) - 7.5 Heat

AWS-9M
+25% ERPPC Range (12.5% energy)
+25% ERPPC Velocity
-15% ERPPC Cooldown (15% energy) - 3.4 Seconds
-25% ERPPC Heat Generation (12.5% energy) - 11.25 Heat

Alright so first off finding a relatively close timeframe, lets just do 3 volleys since its the closes (9 seconds for 9S and 8Q, 10.2 for the 9M)

9S
(9 seconds)
3 Volleys of 3 ERPPC
90 Damage
22.5 Heat per volley - 67.5 Heat Total

8Q
(9 seconds)
3 Volleys of 3 PPC
90 Damage
22.5 Heat per Volley - 67.5 Heat Total

9M
(10.2 seconds)
3 Volleys of 3 ERPPC
90 Damage
33.75 Heat per Volley - 101.25 Heat Total

The 9S performs on par using 3 ERPPC with the Awesome Variant using 3 STANDARD PPCs. Please tell me again how the Awesome is not displaced as the IS PPC mech again?

Edited by MauttyKoray, 20 January 2015 - 12:23 PM.

[Roadkill]

MauttyKoray, on 20 January 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

Please tell me again how the Awesome is not displaced as the IS PPC mech again?

No one is saying that.

What we're saying is that nerfing the Thud is not the right way to make the Awesome the king of IS PPC mechs again. The correct solution is to buff the Awesome again. Bring it up to the Thud's level.

The Thud is a good Mech now. Not OP, not even great. It's good. I'd call it Tier 2 even with those quirks. It feels about right balance-wise. If you nerf it, it'll be trash again.

You don't like the role it has been given. From a lore perspective, I agree with you. But making it worse doesn't help - if you want to nerf its ER PPC quirks, you need to propose buffs to replace them so that it stays at its current balance point.

Others have made proposals that might work. Location dependent quirks seem best to me - i.e. give the Thud its current quirks for the ER PPC, but only for the right torso (or even more correctly, the right arm). Then give it excellent medium laser quirks for its left torso. I.e. make its default config better so that you don't feel compelled to rip the stock loadout off and replace it with something else.

Then also buff the Awesomes. The 8Q should be the king of multi-PPCs, and the 9M should be the king of multi-ER PPCs. Give them the quirks to make that true.

[MauttyKoray]

Buffing the Awesome above the TDR is an even worse idea. People are already bitching that the TTK is too low right now with the alpha spam everywhere.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 20 January 2015 - 04:15 PM.