178 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Mystere, on 23 January 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

WTF?!!! Where is is stated?

Just to be clear, is it just in "suggested" state right now, or will PGI will do it?

Because if the latter, WTF?!!!

How many times has PGI stood up for the Teams? Other than that... its only suggestions.

[Galenit]

WarHippy, on 23 January 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

What PGI learned is catering to the people crying about groups lost them a lot of players. People want to be able to group up and play with their friends, but that was made nearly impossible. A lot of groups forced to choose between playing together and playing solo chose the third option and went to a different game. The only mistake PGI could repeat at this point is listening to players like you again.

There is one thing they listen and cater: Money
If you think there is any other reason, you are very young or dumb.

In the end, they get more money with a solo queue then premades stomping solos.
Some people left after that? No problem, the income with a solo queue still gives more money.
If not, they would have changed something.

Now lets see what money says about cw ...

[Ragnar Bashmek]

Galenit, on 23 January 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

There is one thing they listen and cater: Money
If you think there is any other reason, you are very young or dumb.

In the end, they get more money with a solo queue then premades stomping solos.
Some people left after that? No problem, the income with a solo queue still gives more money.
If not, they would have changed something.

Now lets see what money says about cw ...

Right on.

The number I have heard is that 84% of MWO players are play for fun solo droppers or members of small Units.

The large group tryhards can roll their eyes and stomp around all they want but in the end this issue will be decided on the basis of "Money talks and Bullsh_t walks". The 16% or so that are tryhards can't support the game financially.

The players who left the game when they were no longer able "roflstomp" Pugs in the standard queue were a good riddance. I'd guess they just couldn't hack it when they were faced with playing against their peers in the group queue.

The players here that seemingly can't bear the thought of having to play against their peers in CW would be another good riddance.

FWIW I am a member of a small competitive squad and enjoy that aspect of MWO very much. However if that "competition" consisted of rolling over noobs, I wouldn't be there.

I certainly don't have anything against competition, I've been competing in "something" for over 50 years. Yes, (for you hippies that are not too good with numbers) I'm old enough to be the average MWO player's Grandfather and have a hell of a lot of experience in competition and in dealing with the gamers and cheats that try to win by jerking around with the rules instead of excelling at their chosen sport.

I listened to the NGNG town hall pod cast this morning. One fellow from CGBI tried to talk sense to the group but Sean and the others weren't having any of it. Sean's position seemed to be that CW was designed for 12 mans and everyone else should go away (not his words but what I took away from his comments). A couple of the others brilliant solution was to pay the solo droppers more C-bills for playing the "designated loser" role. What a deal.

Bottom line is still that PGI has to make CW enjoyable for the majority of MWO players or CW and PGI are toast.

[Hardin4188]

No one wants pugs to "go away". We just want the ones who don't put any effort into working together to go away.

[Ra-ul]

Apologies if what I write here was mentioned before, but from my point of view (as a solo player for certain real-life reasons) is that there are a lot or capable solo players out there, who can greatly contribute to the CW experience. I have been in CW matches where a group of solo players (certainly there were also group players dropping without their buddies) coordinated quite well via chat and won against a pre-made opponent.

IMO it is not a question of either premade group or solo, or that CW is for group players only, but how to cleverly integrate good solo players to fill up empty spots in 6-, 8, or 10 man groups (or any other number). A way which does not limit to team up only via friends list, but an actual faction lobby where groups can be formed before they go for an attack or defend would dramatically help. Together with VOIP, and the solo players listening to the orders of the drop leader, this could be a totally new experience for groups and solo players, and make CW open and interesting for a much wider player base.

Edited by GraySho, 23 January 2015 - 01:50 PM.

[Mystere]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 January 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

How many times has PGI stood up for the Teams? Other than that... its only suggestions.

Whew! I thought you just gave me a heart attack.

[Ax2Grind]

Ragnar Bashmek, on 22 January 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

Apparently my comment about elitist a__holes stuck a little too close to home. But hey if a player is happy being a boot licker for 12 man groups that's their business.

Ragnar Bashmek, on 23 January 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

The way CW is currently structured a player has to choose between joining a 12 man team or settling for the role of "designated loser".

Apparently, before my time, MWO players went thru the same BS in the regular queue where the pre-made teams were ruining the game for everyone else.

You call PUG's losers, and you have the warped "objective reality" opinion that people who decide to team up are "ruining the game for everyone else" and elitist a-holes. Thanks for this fine "objective reality" opinion Ragnar. It's always great to see someone who isn't salty, with a wounded inner-child, posting on the forums. You are clearly a champion for the game and for all PUG's everywhere. Bravo.

[DaynarFaol]

4v4 and 8v8 battles are coming.
PvE is coming

A New Game Mode NEXT MONTH.

GIVE IT TIME.

PGI is not Ubisoft.

They do not have facilities in 20 countries.

Give it TIME. Little over a MONTH IN.

[Ragnar Bashmek]

GraySho, on 23 January 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

Apologies if what I write here was mentioned before, but from my point of view (as a solo player for certain real-life reasons) is that there are a lot or capable solo players out there, who can greatly contribute to the CW experience. I have been in CW matches where a group of solo players (certainly there were also group players dropping without their buddies) coordinated quite well via chat and won against a pre-made opponent.

IMO it is not a question of either premade group or solo, or that CW is for group players only, but how to cleverly integrate good solo players to fill up empty spots in 6-, 8, or 10 man groups (or any other number). A way which does not limit to team up only via friends list, but an actual faction lobby where groups can be formed before they go for an attack or defend would dramatically help. Together with VOIP, and the solo players listening to the orders of the drop leader, this could be a totally new experience for groups and solo players, and make CW open and interesting for a much wider player base.

I agree that Faction wide chat and in game VOIP will improve the experience of Pugging in CW.

It is not going to put Pugs on par with pre-made 12 mans that practice, coordinate builds, and strategize etc. together.

I'm looking for the game structure to facilitate these highly competent teams being squared off against the other similar teams and us Pugs to be able to square of against other Pugs.

I think that would improve everyone's enjoyment of the game. The highly competitive types would get some real competition and Pugs, including those that are not so highly experienced, could enjoy CW playing at their own level.

[Ragnar Bashmek]

Ax2Grind, on 23 January 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

You call PUG's losers, and you have the warped "objective reality" opinion that people who decide to team up are "ruining the game for everyone else" and elitist a-holes. Thanks for this fine "objective reality" opinion Ragnar. It's always great to see someone who isn't salty, with a wounded inner-child, posting on the forums. You are clearly a champion for the game and for all PUG's everywhere. Bravo.

Nope, nowhere did I call Pugs losers. I mostly Pug but will jump in if I see a group of my teammates online together. I am protesting a game structure that pushes Pugs into a situation where they have only a slim chance of winning.

BTW the phrase was "observed reality"....."objective reality" is something you POoA like the rest of your snarky comments.

[Ax2Grind]

Do I need to re-quote you? You do indeed call PUG's losers. You even call those PUG's who like to play the game, against 12 man's, Bootlickers. Well said.

"hey if a player is happy being a boot licker for 12 man groups that's their business."

"a player has to choose between joining a 12 man team or settling for the role of "designated loser"

And you are in fact the one who used the word Objective in your comment. Your inability to grasp the facts of your own post are worrying. Protest a game structure all you want but the name calling and woefully incorrect ass-umptions are what makes your posts less that useful in making positive change. Stop blaming people who want or like playing the game (losers, elitists, bootlickers...these are your words describing players in the game...) and focus instead on the actual mechanics.

Edited by Ax2Grind, 23 January 2015 - 04:07 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Ragnar Bashmek, on 23 January 2015 - 08:24 AM, said:

Not really, we basically have that now and it rarely succeeds..

The answer is to limit pre-mades to playing other pre-mades and let Pugs play other Pugs. Pugs vs Pugs with VOIP and Faction wide chat for grouping would be fun.

No you have the pub queues for that, you want to solo in CW expect there to be sharks in the water.

[ApolloKaras]

Ax2Grind, on 23 January 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

Do I need to re-quote you? You do indeed call PUG's losers. You even call those PUG's who like to play the game, against 12 man's, Bootlickers. Well said.

"hey if a player is happy being a boot licker for 12 man groups that's their business."

"a player has to choose between joining a 12 man team or settling for the role of "designated loser"

And you are in fact the one who used the word Objective in your comment. Your inability to grasp the facts of your own post are worrying. Protest a game structure all you want but the name calling and woefully incorrect ass-umptions are what makes your posts less that useful in making positive change. Stop blaming people who want or like playing the game (losers, elitists, bootlickers...these are your words describing players in the game...) and focus instead on the actual mechanics.

This post is entirely too well written Ax. How many times do I have to tell you stop dropping your command of the English language on the unprepared? You have to make posts that require no thought before hand, and zero effort. Kinda like this post.

On to the topic its tough to play as solo. It truly is. Even if you do attempt to lead show everyone where to go, you'll always have that 'One Guy'. The wanna be alpha male where on Sulfurous Rift wants to push beta: "Cause Reasons", when everyone is pushing Alpha. If everyone were to get on board then it works. You can hold a 12 man up. Hell take up all of their time, bog them down, that takes them off the board for 30 minutes - good stuff. If everyone would work together its beautiful.

Obligatory quote

Ragnar Bashmek, on 22 January 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

Apparently my comment about elitist a__holes stuck a little too close to home. But hey if a player is happy being a boot licker for 12 man groups that's their business.

Edited by Saxie, 23 January 2015 - 06:55 PM.

[xMEPHISTOx]

a lot of people have mentioned that fps games need pugs in cw's. I disagree, wot was a cw's that had no pugs allowed and it turned out imo to be one the most enjoyable/profitable cw's of any fps game ive played in the past as well as the present. so no, you do not need pugs to operate a successful cw's.

[Artgathan]

Ragnar Bashmek, on 23 January 2015 - 12:48 PM, said:

The number I have heard is that 84% of MWO players are play for fun solo droppers or members of small Units.

You've heard wrong. The number you're quoting is a statistic measuring the number of launches (which doesn't necessarily mean players) and it was generated at a time when group sizes could either be "4 or less" or "exactly 12".

Even if we take this '84% of MWO players' at face value, claiming that the other 16% (IE: the group players) can't support the game financially is invalid. Various sources state that a typical F2P game only ever sees 10% of its entire player base spend any money at all, with approximately 0.5% of the player base becoming the 'whales' that generate the majority of revenue for a game. All this to say that 16% would be enough to support the game - and actually put it 'above average' in terms of conversion rates for the industry.

[Vassago Rain]

Ragnar Bashmek, on 23 January 2015 - 12:48 PM, said:

Right on.

The number I have heard is that 84% of MWO players are play for fun solo droppers or members of small Units.

The large group tryhards can roll their eyes and stomp around all they want but in the end this issue will be decided on the basis of "Money talks and Bullsh_t walks". The 16% or so that are tryhards can't support the game financially.

The players who left the game when they were no longer able "roflstomp" Pugs in the standard queue were a good riddance. I'd guess they just couldn't hack it when they were faced with playing against their peers in the group queue.

The players here that seemingly can't bear the thought of having to play against their peers in CW would be another good riddance.

FWIW I am a member of a small competitive squad and enjoy that aspect of MWO very much. However if that "competition" consisted of rolling over noobs, I wouldn't be there.

I certainly don't have anything against competition, I've been competing in "something" for over 50 years. Yes, (for you hippies that are not too good with numbers) I'm old enough to be the average MWO player's Grandfather and have a hell of a lot of experience in competition and in dealing with the gamers and cheats that try to win by jerking around with the rules instead of excelling at their chosen sport.

I listened to the NGNG town hall pod cast this morning. One fellow from CGBI tried to talk sense to the group but Sean and the others weren't having any of it. Sean's position seemed to be that CW was designed for 12 mans and everyone else should go away (not his words but what I took away from his comments). A couple of the others brilliant solution was to pay the solo droppers more C-bills for playing the "designated loser" role. What a deal.

Bottom line is still that PGI has to make CW enjoyable for the majority of MWO players or CW and PGI are toast.

This was back when they made it almost impossible to group up.

[Anjian]

Starting to play CW again after a two week absense. Want to see how the new changes were like. Had six games, won them all, four were total PUGs, two had a 5 man premade. One game went down the wire; two mechs left and an Adder running around with a flamer made the difference. No Zerg rushes, our attacks even in Borealis was to go in and simply kill. And when the enemy was attacking, their main purpose was also to kill. Two of the games went so badly for the IS, it felt like they would suffer from CW PTSD. Even for a PUG, one of the groups was so organized, 12 of them jumped the gates all at once with lights.

Clans play with a few mechs types only because they don't have a large variety of mech types. That creates an incidental advantage on its own because the greater the uniformity of mechs in a team, even in a PUG, the greater is their internal cohesion, aka like groups moving in the same speed, or using the same tactics, which is the recipe for wolfpack tactics. 240 ton weight limit also creates a gravity towards certain weight classes.

Edited by Anjian, 23 January 2015 - 11:19 PM.

[Zolaz]

The sky is falling!!! The sky is falling!!!

Calm down chicken little ... CW has only been out a month. PUGs have gone back to solo queue because that is where the space bucks are.

[Thorn Hallis]

Ragnar Bashmek, on 22 January 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

Let me explain it to you this way. If CW doesn't become an enjoyable mode for Pugs and small Units it is dead meat. Pugs and small Unit players pay the bills for MWO.

I pay the bills for MWO and enjoy CW. And I'm a pug. So maybe those other PUGs who do not enjoy CW need to change their attitude? No wait, of course not. I'm just a self-entitled elite PUG.

You know, you allready lost your point when you brought up that BS about the big bad boogeyman 12 men teams that only farm PUGs for laughs.

[Matthew Ace]

I would also take this time to say I enjoy CW even as a PUG. But it just isn't lucrative enough for me to play more often. I also found myself less likely to get stomped in comparison to open games.

ThomasMarik, on 21 January 2015 - 11:43 PM, said:

They really do need to look at the C-bill rewards a bit more. They need to have CW matches make at least as mutch as the normal queues. Until then their faction balancing technique of offering better C-bill rewards isn't going to work since you still would make more money dropping outside of CW even if you are part of the highest paying faction.

+1 to this. For me, I would lean towards an overall better earning of at least +25% over spending the same duration as open games. Even more for an attacker maybe. It should pay better simply because of having to commit up to 30 minutes to a CW match instead of having the flexibility to stop in between shorter games.

Edited by Matthew Ace, 24 January 2015 - 04:28 AM.