480 replies to this topic

[Lukoi Banacek]

Greek utopia or Geek Utopia?

[Dragon Fetladral]

Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

I'd take you oh so much more seriously if your throw away Davion account wasn't less than a month old.

Come help us defend Chamdo and explain why I should care if you take me seriously. Otherwise, see you on the field!

[MischiefSC]

Vlad Ward, on 21 January 2015 - 02:46 PM, said:

Because the result is discussions like this, and the faction swapping, planet stealing, rage sandwiching shenanigans which drive interest in the game. Both a pure deathmatch and pure greek utopia would be significantly more boring.

Extremes aside though factions need the tools to coordinate and act like factions - or all you do have is pure deathmatch. That's what we've got right now. Anything more than pure deathmatch is completely player created and provides no benefit. When it does have some tools for units to turn factions into actual factions and it's less deathmatch, then what?

Rage sandwiching doesn't add anything to the game you can't get from spawncamping on TF2. Are you saying the opportunity to mess up a large group of players tactical decisions with absolutely no repercussions is a huge draw for the game right now? For more than say 20 people? I struggle the believe that.

If someone wants to play hipster snowflake rebel stuff and go try to mess up alliances and disrupt tactics then great. We all deal with the guy who runs off in a spider and powers down to protect his KDR, the couple of mercs who go disrupting faction strats for some quick cbills and because it makes them feel special and rebellious are not any more of an inconvenience and no more 'cheating', they're just that guy that everyone rolls their eyes at.

When there is a system in place however that rewards units, especially merc units, for actually playing to the overall strategy of a faction and factions start to gel into actual groups and CW is less deathmatch and more actual warfare are you saying that's a less complex and interesting environment than a general deathmatch anarchy do whatever CW that breaks down to be Invasion gamemode in a group queue environment with no Elo and where solo pugs can show up?

[Martis Gradivus]

Dimento Graven, on 21 January 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

The fact that Steiner tried ignoring them until they'd go away, and that didn't happen until Steiner had basically lost the planet to turret runs, and then when confronting these throw away accounts, they did nothing but played a delaying game keeping a full unit of Stiener regulars tied up, away from the clan front, to trying and regain the planet.

And no, we shouldn't have to live with idiotic buffoons who, unable to win on their ACTUAL front decide to create throw away accounts in an attempt to disrupt their actual enemy in effort to gain an undeserved upper hand.

Again, you'll be fine with it, until it starts happening to you...

Demento, I am confused. You claim they ghost dropped and delayed you in the end, but they seem to say they fought some of your better 12 mans in multiple matches......CI, SRoT and -MS- I think he mentionned......

So what is it? Defended drops, unopposed drops. Who lies, who tells truth.

PGI is laughing it up now.....maybe they are the rogue unit? That'd be hilarious.

[stratagos]

Harathan, on 21 January 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

Because Vlad Ward has a stellar reputation.

*yawn*

From a disinterested third party's perspective, I would point out that one of you is coming off as shrill and inflexible, and it ain't Vlad.

While I'm sure you don't 'care', as I doubtlessly wouldn't fit in with the unit culture you appear to represent, I wouldn't drop with you in a million years if the way you interact with people here is a reflection on the way you interact with anyone you disagree with.

[Harathan]

jackal40, on 21 January 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

There should be NO player established ceasefires, at all.

Yeah, god forbid their should be Communities in Community Warfare. Go back to public, troll.

[wanderer]

Quote

Is it a valid tactic to create BRAND NEW THROW AWAY and nigh untraceable accounts to purposefully disrupt the fighting ability of your PRIMARY account's faction's enemy?

IE: Creating accounts you don't care about and could care less if they are banned, blown to bits, never expect to win a match, JUST SO you can grant your primary preferred faction a numerical advantage.

Right now? Absolutely. I can join and influence any faction I want without limitations. He who throws the most bodies at a planet wins, after all- and clearly, someone's kenned the numbers game behind CW.

The only way that changes is if someone's in charge, and PGI shows no signs of allowing such. Without it, "community" is simply another word for "chaos".

[Harathan]

stratagos, on 21 January 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

From a disinterested third party's perspective, I would point out that one of you is coming off as shrill and inflexible, and it ain't Vlad.

While I'm sure you don't 'care', as I doubtlessly wouldn't fit in with the unit culture you appear to represent, I wouldn't drop with you in a million years if the way you interact with people here is a reflection on the way you interact with anyone you disagree with.

Of the two of us, I'm the one who has not hilariously attempted to make insulting references to the others character.

Stay classy.

[Davers]

Dragon Fetladral, on 21 January 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

Come help us defend Chamdo and explain why I should care if you take me seriously. Otherwise, see you on the field!

*waves hand* This is not the defence you are looking for. Move along.

[Krivvan]

Harathan, on 21 January 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

What is the point of Factions on the map if Factions don't actually exist as an entity, whether that entity is the Community of that Faction or PGI wearing their GM cloak? And if CW is not, therefore, Faction vs Faction but instead Lulz vs Lulz, what's the point of CW mode at all?

CW is Faction FFA. That's what it was designed as and that's what it's playing out as.

[Harathan]

Krivvan, on 21 January 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

CW is Faction FFA. That's what it was designed as and that's what it's playing out as.

Yeah, that didn't actually answer the question. GGclose.

[Krivvan]

MischiefSC, on 21 January 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

So why have factions then if it's just a big deathmatch? I'm curious about that. Without any sort of Faction unity or purpose to factions why not just have it be Invasion gamemode in pug/group queue? The point of a Faction is a single over-arching organization bigger than just the individual units. If you're against factions actually organizing into factions.... what is their purpose? Why not just color-code map sections and cut it into an even 12 pie wheel that all meets in the middle?

Because they're about getting their faction the most territory wherever that territory comes from. It's FFA. The unity extends as far as one's own faction. Everyone else is a fair game enemy. Any other agreement is between units and units only.

I've also only seen this whole idea of "faction unity" from Davion, Marik, Steiner and (until they stopped playing) Wolf. The other factions don't really have any self-appointed leadership as far as I can tell. JF only got a TS recently and it's mainly just used to put together faction groups. There aren't any decisions or ceasefires or anything else being made.

So a lot of factions are essentially just attack whatever is available to be attacked. If more people want to attack IS than attack other Clans, then that's what ends up happening.

Edited by Krivvan, 21 January 2015 - 04:07 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

jackal40, on 21 January 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

Well, not this actually matters to the discussion, but the unit I belong to is aligned with Davion - and we refuse to honor any ceasefire agreements negotiated by unelected leaders. Frankly, I'm all for supporting these folks. There should be NO player established ceasefires, at all.

And the name of that unit is?

[Harathan]

Krivvan, on 21 January 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

It's FFA.

Then it's not Community Warfare, it's just Warfare.

[Richter Kerensky]

Any tactic is valid against House Davion.

[N0MAD]

You guys have really no idea what sort of bucket of poop/hate/trolling/abuse has been opened here, guess that comes from no research going into something that has been done before.
For some of us that have played games where RvR (CW) is a feature of a game know exactly where this situation is headed, its heading south especially after certain people waded into this with little or no experience in this type of situation.
Last game i played with a similar type of game play (CW) was POTBS, early on it ran into many of the problems that MWO is having now, wont go into details as many wont care and doubt PGI will, but suffice to say they were smart enough (Devs) to make it against the CoC to play multiple accounts on the one server.
PGI for now may be thinking that its not a bad thing especially as it lifts the number of active accounts, wont be long before they work out its really a very bad thing, as will the majority of the CW community.
Because of this thread and certain peoples posts in it i think PGI may see an increase in new accounts altho there will be no new players, and threads like this will also increase as will the anger and dissatisfaction.
Just opinion tho.

Edited by N0MAD, 21 January 2015 - 04:10 PM.

[Novakaine]

FEDCOM PSYOPS.

[RG Notch]

N0MAD, on 21 January 2015 - 04:08 PM, said:

You guys have really no idea what sort of bucket of poop/hate/trolling/abuse has been opened here, guess that comes from no research going into something that has been done before.
For some of us that have played games where RvR (CW) is a feature of a game know exactly where this situation is headed, its heading south especially after certain people waded into this with little or no experience in this type of situation.
Last game i played with a similar type of game play (CW) was POTBS, early on it ran into many of the problems that MWO is having now, wont go into details as many wont care and doubt PGI will, but suffice to say they were smart enough (Devs) to make it against the CoC to play multiple accounts on the one server.
PGI for now may be thinking that its not a bad thing especially as it lifts the number of active accounts, wont be long before they work out its really a very bad thing, as will the majority of the CW community.
Because of this thread and certain peoples posts in it i think PGI may see an increase in new accounts altho there will be no new players, and threads like this will also increase as will the anger and dissatisfaction.
Just opinion tho.

How is PGI going to stop alt accounts?

[Krivvan]

Harathan, on 21 January 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

Then it's not Community Warfare, it's just Warfare.

As far as I'm concerned, until there is a system in game for faction politics, all of what "community" means is that everyone is out to make their own faction the greatest. Your allies are your own faction, not any other faction. If there are unofficial NAPs between units, then sure, but they are unenforceable on anyone else.

[MischiefSC]

Krivvan, on 21 January 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

Because they're about getting their faction the most territory wherever that territory comes from. It's FFA. The unity extends as far as one's own faction. Everyone else is a fair game enemy. Any other agreement is between units and units only.

I've also only seen this whole idea of "faction unity" from Davion, Marik, Steiner and (until they stopped playing) Wolf. The other factions don't really have any self-appointed leadership as far as I can tell. JF only got a TS recently and it's mainly just used to put together faction groups. There aren't any decisions or ceasefires or anything else being made.

So a lot of factions are essentially just attack whatever is available to be attacked. If more people want to attack IS than attack other Clans, then that's what ends up happening.

Then why have factions or a BT map? Why not just make teams colors, make it a 12 slice wheel and let whatever unit wants to take whatever mech take it? Indeed; since your own faction is largely irrelevant why have CW at all? Just put the Invasion game mode in group/pug queue and have a counter board with wins by whatever 'faction' logo you pick.

There's a massive difference between warfare between factions and having a FFA deathmatch with different colored teams. I'd understood CW as planned as the former and not the later.