55 replies to this topic

[Mustafa Kemal Ataturk]

die clanner

[terminals]

One has to be alive to be left. DIE CLANNER.

[ShinobiHunter]

GumbyC2C, on 21 January 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:

So I asked a large group of Draconis Combine (all from a unit with the tag NVKA) if they were up for a duel. One said he would and I went alone to the spot we agreed upon, only to find all the treacherous NVKAs there and all shooting me. I would expect this from a Cappelan or Free Worlds League unit, but I thought the Combine still had some honorable samurais left. I guess I was wrong. So be it.

It's better to die with honor, than to live without.

Shame on all those Kuritan posers involved. You have brought the Dragon great dishonor.

[GumbyC2C]

Songy, on 21 January 2015 - 04:22 PM, said:

With the full knowledge that I was fielding an underweight, ill-equipped chassis (and few skills unlocked) I took the moral high ground and accepted the Clan's challenge despite my survival instinct telling me that his superior machine and firepower would trounce any feeble resistance I could muster. But to die gallantly in 1000 pieces of shattered jade is one of the noblest fates in Bushido, we call this gyokusai, and to survive defeat or relish in ensured victories is supposed to be incomprehensible in the face of dying as you lived.

I attempted to separate myself from the rest of the team and claim the grid square as my own, stressing to my teammates to let the matter lie. Ever ready, I issued the time for weapons-hot and to my dismay, after the first exchange I saw nothing but bedlam as opportunists and glory-seekers interfered and denied the challenger a chance at victory and the challenged a possibly noble end. Those people do not speak for me and I do not condone their actions nor should their deceitful conduct be construed as my own.

That's not how it went down. You did not know what mech I had, nor did I know what mech you had when the challenge was issued and accepted. Your unit clearly initiated an ambush on me. It's all on the video. Not random puggers. Your unit is the opportunists and glory-seekers you speak about. Your unit is the one that both in-game and on this thread is bragging about how clever they were in their dishonorable actions. They are associated with both the Combine and yourself, bringing that dishonor to all.

[Scoops Kerensky]

Except one of your lances tried to kill me while we were watching the duel? I stopped our team from firing on you and we watched the duel play out, the pugs on your team weren't interested and tried to core my atlas in the back as it was in progress. Don't blame us for their lack of restraint.

[Songy]

GumbyC2C, on 21 January 2015 - 10:05 PM, said:

That's not how it went down. You did not know what mech I had, nor did I know what mech you had when the challenge was issued and accepted. Your unit clearly initiated an ambush on me. It's all on the video. Not random puggers. Your unit is the opportunists and glory-seekers you speak about. Your unit is the one that both in-game and on this thread is bragging about how clever they were in their dishonorable actions. They are associated with both the Combine and yourself, bringing that dishonor to all.

Mechwarrior,

I am, in fact, referring to less than reputable members of the unit when I used those terms. As for battlemech information, there is a good deal of time in the video where we were able to survey each others' firepower and I was clearly in the inferior machine. I could have immediately fled but opted to accept whatever fate awaited. However, while this does not qualify these events, I will offer these words as illumination and caution when encountering DCMS units in the future:

Quote

Excerpts from “Kurita Codes of Relationships and Conduct”

“On Proper Behavior Toward Enemies”

The opposing fighter must be presumed to have the same code of death or victory as the Kurita warrior. It would be disrespectful of the enemy to hold him to a lesser standard than we hold for ourselves. In the face of the enemy, our objective is to destroy him utterly, and there must be no hesitation or lack of resolve in this regard. It is true that fighters from other Houses hold to weaker standards than do the warrior of House Kurita. Nevertheless, we deal with them in battle as we expect to be dealt with ourselves, even though they may not actually deserve this honor.

The Clans are generally treated with respect equal to that of a Kurita warrior, unless the situation demands tactics and decisions that will work for the benefit of the Dragon. On the battlefield, honor is extended to the Clan enemy as best can be provided. The honor and standards of the Combine are to be upheld above the Clan enemy, which may mean an abandonment of the enemy’s strict code of warfare.

Personally, I ascribe to the sections in bold but my peers will also interpret The Doctrines of Shiro as they see fit for themselves . This is why I say that I have been misrepresented. We all fight for Luthien but how that homage is performed is ultimately up to the individual soldier, be it with acknowledgment of your adversary's customs or with only total victory in mind. Some can stay their hand and others will free the grass along with the dandelions.

[Scoops Kerensky]

I'd also like to hear you explain why Tasker and myself intended to betray a 1v1 all along if we went to the trouble of trying to point out to you multiple times before the duel happened that this very contingency that people would open up on either side would occur.

You can see at 1:52 in the video you posted that we both warn you that we're nervous that pugs on either side of the fence will open up on people and turn it into a melee. We stopped that dragon from engaging you only to have a lance from your side open up on us. We started calling targets because we realized we couldn't stop it and you were in all of our sights.

You understood the risks of what could happen in a public game but rather than trying to sort the issue or accept any fault, you've decided it'd be cool to drag this out as if you're some sort of martyr, and that's why you're getting such a hostile reaction from everyone involved. Would you enjoy it if we called out Zeta as not being real clanners and trying to organize an ambush on us under the pretense of a 1v1 so they could score an easy win?

[GumbyC2C]

You could call us out on that but the video evidence would have that in the chat box since there were only two Zetas on at the time. The video and this thread also have several instances showing members of your unit taunting me for even expecting an honorable duel. But it is no matter. Feel free to regain your honor as you see fit.

[Alexander Steel]

Keep in mind that not all the Draconis Combine soldiers are Samurai. In fact some of the units that were most effective against the Clans were the Ghost Regiments. These regiments are anything but honorable Samurai, but were in fact composed of large numbers of Yakuza Criminals.

Also keep in mind the Genyosha ((modeled after the Kell Hounds and their fighting style)) and the Ryuken ((modeled after Wolf's Dragoons and their fighting style)) are major anti-clan units.

Also Theodore Kurita's unit (( or at least the one he served with for some time)) was the 11th Legion of Vega, known for being... full of criminals, rejects and those who don't follow traditional Combine ways.

Quote

After Theodore Kurita was assigned to command the Legion, things began to change. The Legionnaires saw that he was just as hated as they were, which bound the units to him. As the rest of the DCMS thought they had no honor, the Legion became a place for Theodore to experiment with "dishonorable" tactics that would offend other DCMS units. These tactics resulted in the Legion not only surviving, but succeeding in their objectives.

Theodore Kurita is very much a man about modernizing the tactics of the Draconis Combine and that includes being "dishonorable" where it's needed. This isn't the Combine of 3025.

Edited by Alexander Steel, 22 January 2015 - 05:55 AM.

[hopterque]

GumbyC2C, on 22 January 2015 - 04:20 AM, said:

You could call us out on that but the video evidence would have that in the chat box since there were only two Zetas on at the time. The video and this thread also have several instances showing members of your unit taunting me for even expecting an honorable duel. But it is no matter. Feel free to regain your honor as you see fit.

There is no greater honor than victory, clan dog. Ha ha ha.

[Nightshade24]

No more Samurais in the Combine anymore.
Only Ronins and Doctors.

[Coordinator Toxic Kerensky]

GumbyC2C, on 21 January 2015 - 10:05 PM, said:

Your unit is the opportunists and glory-seekers you speak about. Your unit is the one that both in-game and on this thread is bragging about how clever they were in their dishonorable actions. They are associated with both the Combine and yourself, bringing that dishonor to all.

GumbyC2C, on 22 January 2015 - 04:20 AM, said:

But it is no matter. Feel free to regain your honor as you see fit.

*said in voice of middle-aged man clearly suffering from undiagnosed autism who cares about """""honor""""" in a F2P videogame*

btw: http://mwomercs.com/...dated-20130226/

Edited by KiryuuinSatsuki, 22 January 2015 - 06:20 AM.

[hopterque]

GumbyC2C, on 21 January 2015 - 10:05 PM, said:

Your unit is the opportunists and glory-seekers you speak about. Your unit is the one that both in-game and on this thread is bragging about how clever they were in their dishonorable actions. They are associated with both the Combine and yourself, bringing that dishonor to all.

Say that to my face, Clanner, not at range, and see what happens.


Ha ha ha.

[Der Hesse]

If you want a duel do it in a private match. Pugs won´t let you do it otherwise. Believe me, i tried.

It would be an honour for me to duel you if you want to.
I have enough premium time to set up a private match.

Just send me a message with time, tonnage and starting range.
If you want to bring a second to record the duel just tell me his name and i will bring one too.

Only limit is my real life. If i can´t be online at the time you chose then it´s not due to a lack of honor, but due to real life obligations.

But be aware that it might be most likely your death when you dare to face me!

See you on the battlefield.

[Onionbird]

GumbyC2C, on 22 January 2015 - 04:20 AM, said:

You could call us out on that but the video evidence would have that in the chat box since there were only two Zetas on at the time. The video and this thread also have several instances showing members of your unit taunting me for even expecting an honorable duel. But it is no matter. Feel free to regain your honor as you see fit.

I'm sure your Twitch viewers were in a tizzy about this dishonorable tactic and we know thanks to you spamming that aggravating macro at the beginning of every match. That is truly dishonorable, attempting to pick on weaker people for the enjoyment of others and the furthering of your own personal prestige. You should be ashamed.

[hopterque]

He doesn't actually have any twitch viewers so that doesn't really count.

[Scoops Kerensky]

GumbyC2C, on 22 January 2015 - 04:20 AM, said:

You could call us out on that but the video evidence would have that in the chat box since there were only two Zetas on at the time. The video and this thread also have several instances showing members of your unit taunting me for even expecting an honorable duel. But it is no matter. Feel free to regain your honor as you see fit.

By all means, ignore all the inconvenient parts of your fantasy. We know now not to bother listening to anything clanners want to do if you're all going to throw temper tantrums anytime people act reasonable from now on.

[hopterque]

^{_{Die Clanner.}}

This post brought to you by Clan Wolf Zeta Galaxy, currently accidentally fighting for the Free Rasalhague Republic due to honorable clan misclick.

Edited by hopterque, 22 January 2015 - 09:32 AM.

[Tank]

Combine warriors are so honorable that their borders protected by Lio, surly such task is unworthy for a real samurai.

So far most honorable unit I saw in the CW was... ComStar Irregulars, what really? But they are!

P.S. I'm not a Clanner. Lost a Batchall to a Clan Wolf and now bound to serve them for a week.

[Kyone Akashi]

Der Hesse, on 22 January 2015 - 07:25 AM, said:

If you want a duel do it in a private match. Pugs won´t let you do it otherwise. Believe me, i tried.

I've almost always played PUG, and I feel offended. Certainly, it depends on the individual PUG, just like in organised units there may be some who have their own ideas on how to deal with such duels, as the thread seems to show.

I for one applaud Songy-san and their conviction. The only thing that this thread is proving is that the way of Bushido is a path not for everyone to walk, but I believe we knew this already.

Alexander Steel, on 22 January 2015 - 05:43 AM, said:

Theodore Kurita is very much a man about modernizing the tactics of the Draconis Combine and that includes being "dishonorable" where it's needed. This isn't the Combine of 3025.

I would not make such a sweeping or overly simplified statement.

Whilst it is true that Theodore-sama has reformed the DCMS, he certainly did not expunge its tradition, for doing so would have not only led to much more resistance from the military, but also eroded Combine culture in general. Instead, he sought to infuse the Kuritan ideals of honor with an understanding of necessity by offering a new interpretation of the Dictum Honorum.

This was done, for example, by proclaiming that under some circumstances it would be a warrior's duty to live on to fight another day, or even that a soldier's giri may demand to sacrifice their personal honor if it meant that the Combine as a whole would survive. The latter in particular essentially "greenlights" dishonorable tactics during times of crisis, with the understanding that such victories always come at the cost of one's own honor, but also that they would be expected when the time comes.

This is also why the Ghost regiments seem to have an easier time utilizing unconventional tactics, for their yakuza pilots follow a different code that places greater emphasis on honor as a result of loyalty rather than battlefield conduct, whereas for the Combine samurai, both are intrinsically linked, which may pressure them into a dead end (often quite literally).

"According to the Coordinators argument. a warrior can best serve the Combine by learning from his failures and accepting his weaknesses. In this sight, intentionally sacrificing one's life for an abstract principle such as personal honor brings shame to one's family. Better to persevere - even retreat, if prudence demands it - and live to claim victory for the beloved Draconis Combine another day.

To bolster this reason, Theodore sent out directives to all DCMS officers: Failure or retreat would no longer be considered an automatic disgrace punishable by transfer and demotion. To prevent any warrior from misinterpreting these reforms as a reduction in the DCMS's high standards, Theodore simultaneously ordered harsher penalties for troops guilty of premature or cowardly failures and retreats.

In effect, his edicts sharpened the knife's edge on which all DCMS warriors normally walk and placed additional responsibilities on upper-level officers. In a related directive, Theodore ordered all DCMS commanders to display more flexibility in tactics. Specifically, he ordered them to begin replacing the traditional DCMS full-frontal attack with strategies and tactics designed to accomplish more limited goals when appropriate. Such tactics might not yield as much personal glory as the traditional attack, but they increase the likelihood of eventual victory for the Combine. As a result of this directive, DCMS regiments are already beginning to master the art of extended warfare. Now regiments frequently drive at an enemy's flanks or patiently chip away an opposition's powerbase rather than relying on the predictable all-out attack."

-- Draconis Combine Field Manual

tl;dr: Theodore's reforms didn't really remove the concept of honor from the equation - he simply taught the samurai to use flanking tactics where appropriate and to stop slitting their bellies every time they lost a battle.