63 replies to this topic

[Kain Demos]

Dracol, on 22 January 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

I will just post my usual statements:

• Clan/Clan ceasefires remove one complete new game mode (Clan v Clan) from the faction's players
  
• Clan/IS ceasefires go against lore
  
• Those who negotiate ceasefires only speak for their units, not for the faction as a whole
  
• It is a race to terra, not a group effort. Only the first Clan to Terra wins.
  
• MWO is not recreating the Clan Invasion. If they were, no one would play IS since IS are the default losers.

#1--Don't give a ****, regular queue and private matches achieve that all day long
#2--Agreed, such ceasefires should not exist
#3--Of course. No one has ever said otherwise. Thankfully since the loyalist factions are the largest member of a faction that means if they all agree then generally the ceasefire will hold. Even if mercs come in and trolololo away once they move on planets can be given back
#4--Agreed but just because it is a race doesn't mean we have to resort to infighting. Any grievances that arise on the way can be resolved in trials
#5--If we're not recreating the invasion why are we starting out CW in 3050? Also the IS doesn't lose, have you ever heard of Tukkayid?

[Dracol]

Kain Thul, on 22 January 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:

#1--Don't give a ****, regular queue and private matches achieve that all day long

Um... in case you haven't notice, there is no way in the general queue/private matches to do
A ) Invasion Game Mode
B ) Only one tech for all participants (in regards to general queue)

Kain Thul, on 22 January 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:

#5--If we're not recreating the invasion why are we starting out CW in 3050? Also the IS doesn't lose, have you ever heard of Tukkayid?

In Civil War recreations, does the South ever win? No, because it is recreating a historical event. MWO CW is not recreating the Battetech Invasion. It is telling its own version of the story. Big difference. In this telling of this fictional tale, Merc units are being employed by Clans.

Edited by Dracol, 22 January 2015 - 03:56 PM.

[Davers]

Tasker, on 22 January 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

Wow, a guy from the faction that has a billion units dropping every single time there is a window, while other factions' players are doing stuff like working, going to school, taking care of their kids, etc., thinks cease-fires are stupid?

Color me surprised.

Well, one can see how a faction with a billion players would chafe at only having one attackable faction. Especially when there is an empty world just begging to be taken with no one on it.

[Dracol]

CoffiNail, on 22 January 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

Because what ever Clan makes it to Terra becomes The Clan. We are splintered now to keep us strong, it kept the lore clans, and also MWO units based on the Clans honed. We have been practicing between each other and in community events since Beta and in the case of Clan Wolf (Alpha and Delta) factions CGBI, or as it was known 72nd Assault Trinary in MechWarrior Living Legends days (which is MWO's predecessor). have been dropping together and have been preparing for our revival of the SLDF for a long time.

We know if we work together we can push to retake Terra and expand from their until the whole of the Inner Sphere is united under The Clans.

The Clan that takes Terra becomes ilClan. All other Clans are absorbed in to it, yet Clan Wolf does not really make everyone become Clan Wolf. Clan Wolf's leadership become the Khans of IlClan. All the other Toumans are formed in to one, and it would become a re-established Star League Defense Force From there we could decide how to bring the rest of the Inner Sphere from their barbaric ways of in fighting. Each Clan's Touman would become like a SLDF Corp, and the Clans as a whole the SLDF.

... this could never happen, its not lore

[Kain Demos]

Dracol, on 22 January 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

[/size]
Um... in case you haven't notice, there is no way in the general queue/private matches to do
A ) Invasion Game Mode
B ) Only one tech for all participants (in regards to general queue)

[size=4]
In Civil War recreations, does the South ever win? No, because it is recreating a historical event. MWO CW is not recreating the Battetech Invasion. It is telling its own version of the story. Big difference. In this telling of this fictional tale, Merc units are being employed by Clans.

Clans are not employing mercs. PGI is just letting people make short term commitments to a faction and some units are RPing themselves as mercs.

[Dracol]

Kain Thul, on 22 January 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

Clans are not employing mercs. PGI is just letting people make short term commitments to a faction and some units are RPing themselves as mercs.

Short term commitment... that sure as heck sounds like a Merc contract to me.

Edited by Dracol, 22 January 2015 - 04:12 PM.

[Pet Dude]

Notice the BETA tag on CW. Map will be rest whenever PGI feels like it or to implement something new.

[Jonny Slam]

Gyrok, on 22 January 2015 - 03:27 PM, said:

Ceasefires are useful, and also follow lore.

And we should follow lore for sure, and act accordingly. I couldn't agree more, I just wish more players were as committed to it as you, and your unit is.....

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Since we're going off lore, once the clans reach Tukayyid, ya'll have to stop fighting.

So you might want to all take your time getting to Terra, because you'll be stopped at Tukayyid... because you know, lore said so.

[Kain Demos]

Pet Dude, on 22 January 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

Notice the BETA tag on CW. Map will be rest whenever PGI feels like it or to implement something new.

Not according to the last town hall. Apparently it will be up to us, the players whether we ever want a reset or not.

[CoffiNail]

Dracol, on 22 January 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

... this could never happen, its not lore

Nope, lol.

What the ceasefire NAP Clans reasoning is though.

[-Natural Selection-]

pbiggz, on 22 January 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

Don't look at me like that! They are! Why would you willingly choose NOT to play a game mode we've been waiting for 2 years to get!? And why do some of these units that negotiate ceasefires think they can negotiate them on behalf of their entire faction, despite the fact that they have no control over, and no right to control the majority of those players.


/discuss

Ask Adolph H. how trying how attacking more than one front works out. (especially when in our situation numbers matter)


btw, H*tl*r is a bad word?

Edited by Mickey Knoxx, 22 January 2015 - 05:46 PM.

[Ihasa]

Pet Dude, on 22 January 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

Notice the BETA tag on CW. Map will be rest whenever PGI feels like it or to implement something new.

[Citation needed]

[Jaroth Corbett]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 22 January 2015 - 04:40 PM, said:

Since we're going off lore, once the clans reach Tukayyid, ya'll have to stop fighting.

So you might want to all take your time getting to Terra, because you'll be stopped at Tukayyid... because you know, lore said so.

You guys would have to actually WIN at Tukayyid, because you know, lore said so.

[pbiggz]

Mickey Knoxx, on 22 January 2015 - 05:45 PM, said:

Ask Adolph H. how trying how attacking more than one front works out. (especially when in our situation numbers matter)


btw, H*tl*r is a bad word?

LOL YOU PULLED OUT THE {Godwin's Law} CARD, SHAMEFUL DISPRAY



None of you are as scary as the russians. russians are what lost the germans their war.

Edited by pbiggz, 22 January 2015 - 07:51 PM.

[Chef Kerensky]

pbiggz, on 22 January 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

Don't look at me like that! They are! Why would you willingly choose NOT to play a game mode we've been waiting for 2 years to get!? And why do some of these units that negotiate ceasefires think they can negotiate them on behalf of their entire faction, despite the fact that they have no control over, and no right to control the majority of those players.


/discuss

Because some factions have more than one window of attack, clanner scum.

[Chef Kerensky]

CoffiNail, on 22 January 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

Because what ever Clan makes it to Terra becomes The Clan. We are splintered now to keep us strong, it kept the lore clans, and also MWO units based on the Clans honed. We have been practicing between each other and in community events since Beta and in the case of Clan Wolf (Alpha and Delta) factions CGBI, or as it was known 72nd Assault Trinary in MechWarrior Living Legends days (which is MWO's predecessor). have been dropping together and have been preparing for our revival of the SLDF for a long time.

We know if we work together we can push to retake Terra and expand from their until the whole of the Inner Sphere is united under The Clans.

The Clan that takes Terra becomes ilClan. All other Clans are absorbed in to it, yet Clan Wolf does not really make everyone become Clan Wolf. Clan Wolf's leadership become the Khans of IlClan. All the other Toumans are formed in to one, and it would become a re-established Star League Defense Force From there we could decide how to bring the rest of the Inner Sphere from their barbaric ways of in fighting. Each Clan's Touman would become like a SLDF Corp, and the Clans as a whole the SLDF.

I'm so glad I'm fighting against you.

[Harathan]

pbiggz, on 22 January 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

Don't look at me like that! They are! Why would you willingly choose NOT to play a game mode we've been waiting for 2 years to get!?

There's a strong argument, made by many people, that we are playing it and that it's you who isn't.

[Aresye]

Maybe it's just simply people don't absolute chaos from all sides?

Regardless of lore and stuff, negotiating a ceasefire allows for deeper coordination and overall immersion. It gives players a chance to focus their collective efforts on a smaller, more easily attained goal.

That's what CW is all about. Doesn't matter if you follow ceasefires because of lore, and it doesn't matter if you don't follow them because you think they're stupid. This isn't pug land where chaos reigns supreme. Take out all the inter-unit politics, faction negotiations, etc, then CW just ends up being a fancier game mode with some pretty dots.

It's about what the "community" creates from it.

[Khereg]

It's an interesting discussion, and it seems the OP is making the point that following lore to an excesive degree is not in the best interests of MWO. I'd have to agree. I know there are many folks who want this game experience to be as lore-loyal as possible, but the reality for PGI is this is a business that must attract as large a user base as possible to be successful. Catering to any subset of the user base undermines that objective by potentially alienating new players. This is true whether that subset is comp players, lore purists, or what have you.

PGI is trying to walk a fine line where current committed players stay interested in the game, but the game continues to attract new players who, in large part, are not going to be die hard Battletech fans. If PGI is successful in doing this, the fraction of the user base pounding the table for more accurate representation of lore will diminish. That isn't PGI's goal, but an inevitable outcome of attracting more players to the game.

Not to say that lore doesn't have a place. It creates the framework inside which we all play. But IMHO expecting all (or even most) players to role play and adhere to the events from canon are unrealistic. The players are going to write their own history within this game, which, ironically, is what role playing is all about. This isn't a reenactment exercise, it's an open-ended story waiting to be written within the context of the Battletech universe. Also, it's just human nature to chafe under the yoke. New or casual players who get told they can't do X, Y, or Z because of the desires of other players are going to be resentful of the restrictions.

PGI needs CW to be more open and unrestricted (and frankly we do too) because there are relatively a small number of potential players out there to support a lore-specific retelling of canon and those players are likely not sufficient to keep the game viable financially. Any MWO is better than no MWO (again, IMHO). I know this won't sit well with some people, but I don't see it evolving any other way.

So, back on point with the cease fires:
1. There is no game mechanic to establish faction leadership among the player base nor to enforce agreements between factions, so expecting cease fires (or any other inter-faction diplomacy) to be upheld is not realistic
2. Based on what I wrote above, I think it's better for game mechanics and the growth of the user base to let CW be a free-for-all anyway.

Edited by Khereg, 23 January 2015 - 09:29 AM.