164 replies to this topic

[White Panther]

beerandasmoke, on 23 January 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

Broken maps funneling attackers into chokepoints. Zerg rushes being the flavor of the month. Broken hitbox mechs being used to zerg rush gens and omega. Little if any rewards being incentive to play CW for the average pug.

Give me a CW mode where i have to actually fight the enemy instead of watching a ball of mechs rush gens and omega and pugs will return to CW. Right now all you have is mercs farming pugs on the Kurita border and light zerg rushes in the south.

Wow, that sounds really depressing. After all that has happened, ladies and gentlemen, I think it's time for us to move on and forget this game.

[Mystere]

White Panther, on 23 January 2015 - 06:00 PM, said:

Wow, that sounds really depressing. After all that has happened, ladies and gentlemen, I think it's time for us to move on and forget this game.

Well, if you believe the exaggerations, then yes it looks depressing. It's a good thing, though, that my experience is different.

beerandasmoke, on 23 January 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

Broken maps funneling attackers into chokepoints.

If I were designing a fortress, that is exactly how I would do it. So to me, it is not "broken". It is by design. Isn't it funny how that works?

Edited by Mystere, 23 January 2015 - 07:28 PM.

[White Panther]

Mystere, on 23 January 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

Well, if you believe the exaggerations, then yes it looks depressing. It's a good thing, though, that my experience is different.

If you truely enjoy it I have full respect for that. Unfortunately for mwo, by reading the posts in this thread one could gather most people do not share your opinion.

Edited by White Panther, 23 January 2015 - 08:18 PM.

[The Wakelord]

As a 'medium difficulty PUG' (I like that term, thanks) here are my thoughts on your suggestions

bobF, on 22 January 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

There are two important realities that everyone needs to absorb, and internalize: 1) pugs make the world go round. Every PvP game is mostly pugs. Every GAME is mostly casual players. While I will agree 9000% with some of you that these scrubs should just git gud, the reality is that people just want to play a video game on medium difficulty, and not be frustrated getting curbstomped every match. 2) PvP is competition, and someone has to lose. Just as I spoke to my fellow elite neckbeards in point 1, I now address all casual players. You're not going to always win, even if you were dropped into a perfectly balanced match. Learn to love the struggle and ultimate satisfaction of getting good at something.

Yes

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Reach out to those neckbeards for pro tips, or to become part of their unit. I promise you won't regret it.

Shouldn't make promises you can't keep. Some of the vets are nice, but quite a few are 4 letter words - be it because they are taking things too seriously, demand stock for everyone, or team kill for whatever reason they justify.

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1) THIS IS THE #1, NUMERO UNO HIGHEST PRIORITY: PGI, in order for your factional groups to come to real fruition, the game NEEDS CHAT LOBBYS. All these casual players could immediately be brought up to speed in like 5mins having a simple chat convo with a helpful vet. TS info could be readily spammed on these chat channels. Groups coordinated. Etc. PGI, this is a must-have, mission-critical feature for building community.

Yes! A lot yes!

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2) the pug queue HAS to be integrated into CW. Sorry elite 12 mans, casuals make the game and to deny them participation because they can't come with 12 for instant queues (or, turret killing as it's been of late) is foolhardy. The game is doomed without effective integration of casuals. PGI, there are a ton of threads all over with excellent ideas on how to implement this. The most straightforward way is to adjust the % needed to cap a planet higher, then have a "CW" option for the general queue that contributes to the cap of some planet; you could have CW and include all the normal game modes, ELO separation and fast queues everyone currently enjoys.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here - do you mean every game needs to be CW? That'd require some really large game changes - there is a big 'pressure' in CW, and it takes more time, and the queue is long. I tend to PUG because it is fast, convenient and if I fail I just get in a new mech (and/or get angry).

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3) 12 mans, big units, and major community contributors need mechanics to choose their own destiny. Sorry casuals, but there needs to be a high level of competitive play, and that play should be rewarded with being the biggest contributing factor to map movement. Factions need ways to choose their own attack lanes, keep track of alliances and enemies, current merc employment, and other fun battle metrics. Otherwise, we would all just switch to the CW mode proposed in point 2, because of fast matches. Which neatly brings me to point number...

I agree. I don't care if Davion has a ceasefire with Marik or if we attack Marik while also attacking Liao. But there are people who do, so let them decide.

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4) Participation in CW needs to be encouraged by the things that alter player behavior. Make a c-bill bonus for 12man faction groups that have at least 4 different units, a "pug" bonus of sorts, to encourage pugs to queue for CW.

Yes.

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Make LP do something useful.

Big yes. Occasional Cbill boosts are nice, but not something I strive towards - the +100% rewards by choosing Liao are better than the occassional reward for sticking with Davion. LP should give cool things like free colours, camo, free mech +bay at high levels even. I don't care that PGI plan to do in 6 months ... we need it now for people to care about LP.

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Make unit coffers do something useful (like act as a unit bank, that unit players may withdraw funds from, with permissions admin'd by unit leadership). Give direct unit coffer rewards from factions, in addition to personal reward.

agree both unit coffer use NOW, and that CW should also give cbills to the unit coffer on completion.

[Thorqemada]

To bring some things into Perspective:
I totaly honour and apreciate the effort PGI shows lately.
CW is not 5 Days early - it is years, Years, YEARS late.
Conceptual it is rushed which means in the 4 or 5 years since they develop MWO they never ever had conceptualized something even close to a Beta Concept - we playtest a rushed Alpha readied for Christmas Release.
With 3 Ceasefires and no Faction Participation Control we now have CW on Steroids (much more than b4 - a Planet Invasion takes more than 3 hours (now 3 times a day).
The Population will not control itself - the "Tryhards" will exploit it and rush the map thrice the speed now making it "shiftwork".
People who (casualy) want play a "GAME" have no place in this.
They (PGI - PLayers) have some things in mind to improve CW and it will be shown by the particiption if it was good conceptualized/implemented or not.
And again - i honour and apreciate that PGI shows much more spirit and effort lately.

Keep that up Guys

Edited by Thorqemada, 23 January 2015 - 08:46 PM.

[MischiefSC]

oldradagast, on 23 January 2015 - 05:11 PM, said:

Math fail... the 4 to 1 ratio applies to the game players, not to game modes. It's pretty obvious that far more 12-mans play CW than PUG's... and given the sheer number of PUG's leaving CW, that number is only going to increase until there's nobody left by a few 12-mans.

I see a legit 12man like 1 game in 20, if even that. Plenty of 4-6mans but not a lot of 12s.

Also when you play in the pug queue, see how many people on each side belong to a unit, then reevaluate how many players are actual solo puggers. Everyone pugs, in a unit and out. The difference is that most people also belong to some sort of group.

[DaynarFaol]

Thorqemada, on 23 January 2015 - 08:41 PM, said:

To bring some things into Perspective:
I totaly honour and apreciate the effort PGI shows lately.
CW is not 5 Days early - it is years, Years, YEARS late.
Conceptual it is rushed which means in the 4 or 5 years since they develop MWO they never ever had conceptualized something even close to a Beta Concept - we playtest a rushed Alpha readied for Christmas Release.
With 3 Ceasefires and no Faction Participation Control we now have CW on Steroids (much more than b4 - a Planet Invasion takes more than 3 hours (now 3 times a day).
The Population will not control itself - the "Tryhards" will exploit it and rush the map thrice the speed now making it "shiftwork".
People who (casualy) want play a "GAME" have no place in this.
They (PGI - PLayers) have some things in mind to improve CW and it will be shown by the particiption if it was good conceptualized/implemented or not.
And again - i honour and apreciate that PGI shows much more spirit and effort lately.

Keep that up Guys

Keep in mind it is late because PGI did not control it's development cycle.

Now they do.

[Commander A9]

I think a big issue stems from the idea that there really isn't any benefit to sticking with one faction for any length of time, or punishment for jumping ship and switching at will from week-to-week.

In fact, it's encouraged via one-week contracts.

So you can imagine how frustrating it is when a particular faction finds itself continually and deliberately under attack from the same mercenary teams who go out of their way to switch factions repeatedly in order to engage said particular target faction.

It's actually happening right now, and it does not motivate me to continue playing Community Warfare at all, quite honestly.

People making multiple accounts is unfortunately a trend with any game that gives you the option of playing "Factions." Happened in Tom Clancy's EndWar especially. Happens in EVE Online. And it's happening here. PGI will do nothing if those "alt" accounts actually invest cash into this game; acting against them means less profit for PGI.

[Mystere]

White Panther, on 23 January 2015 - 08:17 PM, said:

If you truely enjoy it I have full respect for that. Unfortunately for mwo, by reading the posts in this thread one could gather most people do not share your opinion.

If I judged a game by the vitriol displayed on its forums, then I wouldn't get to play any.

[DaynarFaol]

Commander A9, on 23 January 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

I think a big issue stems from the idea that there really isn't any benefit to sticking with one faction for any length of time, or punishment for jumping ship and switching at will from week-to-week.

In fact, it's encouraged via one-week contracts.

So you can imagine how frustrating it is when a particular faction finds itself continually and deliberately under attack from the same mercenary teams who go out of their way to switch factions repeatedly in order to engage said particular target faction.

It's actually happening right now, and it does not motivate me to continue playing Community Warfare at all, quite honestly.

People making multiple accounts is unfortunately a trend with any game that gives you the option of playing "Factions." Happened in Tom Clancy's EndWar especially. Happens in EVE Online. And it's happening here. PGI will do nothing if those "alt" accounts actually invest cash into this game; acting against them means less profit for PGI.

Agreed on the first point, though the coming rewards and the c-bills are nice.

Get to faction level 20 and you get a nice C-Bill boost in one drop.

*Shrugs* That is something people will shoot for, others not so much.

And the reason they went to one week contracts is?

People in the community raised a stink about the 30, 60, 90 format that was the original plan.

So people got what they wanted and there you have it.

Multi-accounts:

If they want to blow money that way and don't violate the ToS. *Shrugs* Sucks and the people that do it tend to be jerks.

Sadly the internet has trolls. One of the downsides to no true social consquences.

[Burning2nd]

since clan warfare came out.. ive dropped out a lot.. and im a die hard MW pilot.. THey have completely ****** this game up.. they went the wrong direction

they didnt listen at all.. Im very disappointment... not to mention the amount of glitches since cW dropped

[White Panther]

Mystere, on 23 January 2015 - 10:31 PM, said:

If I judged a game by the vitriol displayed on its forums, then I wouldn't get to play any.

Positive people are free to post here too, its not like only the negative people are more likely to post. They are entitled to express their opinion just like anyone here.

But your right in that people should be forming their own opinions by at least trying the game first.

[Cragger]

It's a first pass run at it with just two maps and a limited amount of content, of course the hype died down after a few months. This is the one area that I amazingly am willing to cut PGI some slack since they are actually finally doing it 2 years after their promise...

[Abivard]

White Panther, on 23 January 2015 - 06:00 PM, said:

Wow, that sounds really depressing. After all that has happened, ladies and gentlemen, I think it's time for us to move on and forget this game.

What you meant as sarcasm strikes a Golden Note of pure wisdom and sound advice. After all this time and all that has happened.... can PGI change or will it always exhibit stupidity, incompetence and greed?

[RG Notch]

Daynar, on 23 January 2015 - 09:29 PM, said:

Keep in mind it is late because PGI did not control it's development cycle.

Now they do.

Keep in mind that PGI was working on another game but when it was shown that if it's not a hostage IP like BT/MW no one would give them much money they had to actually spend time and effort on this game. Now they are.

[Strykewolf]

Well, am having an absolute ball with CW, warts and all. Still early in its release, it will get a lot better, I think.

[Yuber]

I can only speak for myself, being a MW fan but also a fairly casual gamer, love pvp but nothing hardcore.

I saw CW as a way to get a meta/goal oriented layer on top of the game itself. Instead of just grinding for cbills/mechs etc, you'd be grinding for a faction, taking over planets etc, while experiencing a sense of purpose doing it. Kindof like the mp battletech EA game back in the day.

The current implementation is convoluted, hard to figure out, and has effectively killed the game for me. It splits the already small community into hardcore grouped players who get to experience a goal infused but dead game, and casuals who get matches but without any of the aforementioned layers or meta goals.

I don't think this game will survive without a full integration of faction warfare into the casual framework of pick up and play. Atleast for me, I won't bother to log in only to feel excluded and faced with pointless battles because Im not a hardcore player. Even if this is the only good mecha game out there atm, meh.

[Joseph Mallan]

An interesting and fair observation Yuber.

[Vassago Rain]

Yuber, on 24 January 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

I can only speak for myself, being a MW fan but also a fairly casual gamer, love pvp but nothing hardcore.

I saw CW as a way to get a meta/goal oriented layer on top of the game itself. Instead of just grinding for cbills/mechs etc, you'd be grinding for a faction, taking over planets etc, while experiencing a sense of purpose doing it. Kindof like the mp battletech EA game back in the day.

The current implementation is convoluted, hard to figure out, and has effectively killed the game for me. It splits the already small community into hardcore grouped players who get to experience a goal infused but dead game, and casuals who get matches but without any of the aforementioned layers or meta goals.

I don't think this game will survive without a full integration of faction warfare into the casual framework of pick up and play. Atleast for me, I won't bother to log in only to feel excluded and faced with pointless battles because Im not a hardcore player. Even if this is the only good mecha game out there atm, meh.

My guild, that's formed around and during MWO's development, and has managed to survive despite being drawn from 4chan, has largely quit robots. The grind is too immense to get new blood in, and the MOBA maps, laning, zerging, and clan range advantage still gets routinely mocked when people do sit down to play.

I need tools, goals, and rewards to get more people to join, or we're gonna fade away. MWO in CW is so tedious, I managed to convince some 20 people to pick up various fighting games to fill their weekend gaming slots while they wait for PGI to fix MWO. Fighting games are apparently less of a hassle than CW.

It's not just the solos that are suffering. And yes, I agree, they need to combine the pub ghetto with CW, or no one's gonna bother.

I've likened MWO of 2015 to an area with several theme parks to pick from, CW being the most expensive, time consuming, and the only one with a height and weight requirement. No one's gonna go for that when there are better alternatives available.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 24 January 2015 - 12:53 PM.

[xMEPHISTOx]

meh, so many whine about how hard the grind is...how difficult it is to learn and its all bs. has no one played wot where the grind is twice as difficult, and if it was easy to learn and acclimate oneself with then it would just be another ezmode game, of which I have little interest in. to many games are made these days for the lowest common denominator for the ease in which it provides profit, but at the expense of a quality player base.
I don't think cw's is necessarily dying so much as the patient try hard breed of gamers is dying in its stead and if a game does not provide ezplay features then their doomed in these days of lazy entitled gamers.